Haybine/disc mower study?

[rrlund]

Didn't want to hijack David's post below,but have any Universities or private companies ever done a study of dry down of haybine/discbine vs disc mower-tedder? Primarily up here in the northern areas like Michigan-Wisconsin in alfalfa and legume/grass mixed hay? I'm green with jealousy when I go south every summer and see those guts cutting so darned fast with inexpensive equipment. I'd love to be going out there with a 3pt disc mower and laying hay down at high speeds then going back with a tedder instead of laying it in a wide windrow with a slower haybine.

 

[Brendon-KS]

Sounds like you need a disc mower/conditioner. Same high speeds as a disc mower but with a conditioned windrow just like you have now.

Personally the thought of running a tedder through curing alfalfa sounds like a good way to loose a lot of leaves. Maybe this is the reason I have never seen a tedder in use from Kansas to California even though my business travels take me to hay-producing farms all over the western US.

 

[rrlund]

Just trying to take a look at cost. Those 3pt disc mowers are relatively cheap compaired to a discbine. I'm thinking with a good sized tedder,a person could make pretty good time tedding. Don't know why you'd loose many more leaves with one of those than with an impeller style discbine then raking it dry with the wheel rake. You're still pulling two in to one with dry hay from the windrows of the haybine or discbine.
Back in the day,we just cut with a sycle mower,let it lay then raked it without the luxury of a tedder. Granted it had to lay quite a while back then and the color was lousy. I wouldn't want to go back to that.
I'd just hate to be the guinea pig and spend the money to switch over if there's a concrete study showing it to be a real bad idea.

 

[JDseller]

Brendon-KS: the reason you have not seen a hay tedder is not because of leaf loss. It is because the areas you are naming don't have high humidities to make curing a problem. Here in Northern-Iowa you will see most of the good alfalfa hay tedded. If you do it right then you will have very little if any leaf loss. You ted before the hay is cured and when the hay is still tough from the dew in the mornings or late evening.

I would love to have low humidity to cure hay. Before I bought a hay tedder I have lost hay quality in perfectly sunny but high humidity weather. You have it on the ground for a week and it is brown as a paper sack but still to wet to bale.

 

[Anonymous-0]

My 2 cents, I fought high humidity and alfalfa hay for yrs. in central Illinois.I finally saw the light and sold JD 1290 moco,got a disc mower and a 4 basket tedder and had no more problems.Mow one day ,tedd the next AM before dew is off and rake and bale the third.

 

[Jerry/MT]

In our Valley, I was surprised to see folks cut AND rake alfalfa grass mixes. I was always told that you never want to touch alfalfa after it was mowed and conditioned until you baled it -no raking to prevent leaf loss. People here rake it an then bale it. I"m no farmer or hay shaker but it surprised me to see that. It may be because it"s a mix. I"ve never seen anybody use a tedder here.
It"s my understanding that in the Columbia Basin of Washington State, where it"s usually very dry, they moco the straight alfalfa and when it"s dried down, they bale it.

 

[rrlund]

Now you've got me thinking more about trying it. My Hesston haybine isn't shot,but I bought it new back in 94 and cut about 300-350 acres a year with it,so it needs more maintainenance every year. Gonna need to be replaced before too much longer. I'm kinda the guy around here to be the first to try something like that. I had one of the first hydra push speraders,Kuhn gyro rake,first round baler for the most part. When I quit milking cows and went cow calf modeled after what I'd seen in the south,combined with using the old feeding equipment and dairy heifer facilities to finish all my calves,folks just shook their heads and looked me like I had two heads.
I've gotta give this whole thing some serious thought. Sounds like something I could jump on board with.

 

[keh]

I went from a Haybine to a disc mower and tedder. Both can be operated much faster than a haybine. I quit growing hay that had to be conditioned. I also got a wheel rake for the speed of operation. The cows haven't complained. I have never grown alfalfa, the climate here dosen't suit it. I understand Alfalfa needs to be conditioned.

KEH

 

[backwoodsfarm]

rrlund- Most of the time I use a JD 1327 disc moco on my hay, but on occasion use a 3pt disc mower and then a tedder. My hay is mixed grass with a lot of red clover most years. I live in Maine so I'm thinking our weather is similar. I can dry my hay in the same exact amount of time which ever way it's done. The only drawback of using the 3pt mower and tedder is the extra trip around the field after mowing, as I ted the hay out right after mowing with the 3pt mower. With the moco, if mowing in the morning I will leave it in the windrow until mid afternoon before tedding.

 

[Animal]

I am going to jump in here pardner, get a disc mower and tedder and don't look back, just remember that tedding and raking has to be done with the dew on, or follow right behind the mower with your tedder and you won't loose any leaves..

 

[rrlund]

Sounds like there'd be a few days of a learning curve there to get it down right.

 

[Doug Wi]

And no matter what system you use ,drying time is totally dependent on the weather.

 

[Ralph Bauer]

Dunno what size swath you currently make, but your 3pt disc mowers top out at mostly 8 disks, around 10' to 10'4", give or take. I have a 7 disk CIH MDX91, cuts 2800mm or 9'2"(OP.M.). Takes minimum 60 hp at PTO (OP.M.). You also might look at a trailed disk mower, basically a 3pt with own wheels, tongue. And then there are your discbines with conditioning, generally available in larger sizes then 3pts as well (CaseIH: 7-12 discs, side and center pull (Caseih.com).

 

[donjr]

I went from a mo-co to a disc-co about 15 years ago. That machine has paid for itself several times over in speed and low maintenance. I have tedded for about ten years, and it speeds up drying time, but the tedder I had was older and a two basket, so it took some time. I bought a four basket last year.

I have found that if I cut all morning, then tedd in early to mid afternoon, it's quite often ready to rake and bale the next day, with less bleaching and little leaf loss.

We have alot of humidity here in N Md, so heavier crops may take a bit more time to cure. But I cut wide swaths which get tedded, then use a double rake to pull two windrows into one when raking. Keeping it scattered and up out of the stubble is what helps it to dry out so fast.

 

[rrlund]

I was looking on Kuhn's site last night. I like the look of the 10ft 2inch 3pt model. Says it lays about a 7 ft 9 swath on average. They make a trailer type tedder that's 17ft 9. Next size up is 25ft. It'd be tight,but I'm thinking that 17'9 would catch 2 swaths. I've already got a V type wheel rake. I'd be running the disc mower with a 93 PTO horse tractor,so no lack of power there.

 

[Ken Macfarlane]

Humid here, so disc mower conditioner and multiple tedder passes to make hay here. We used haybine up to recently, I won't go back if I can help it.

 

[NY 986]

I think the climates both here and where you live are very similar. I don't see anybody cutting forage for hay doing it without a conditioner. I have seen plain hay conditioners similar to what was made in the 1950's being manufactured again. There must be some demand for it if somebody is willing to build and is making enough to justify their efforts. We have an old IH 2A conditioner (7ft) sitting in the shed if we chose to go that way. Having said all that newer, more reliable disc mower-conditioners are starting to come on the market for resale. Less chance of getting burned versus 10 plus years ago where you could find junk with an excellent paint job on it. You will want to spend time with the dealer service manager to know the ins and outs of each make's cutter bar. I think anything Kuhn, Deere or New Holland made in the last several years ought to be pretty good individual history of the machine aside.

 

[rrlund]

I got burned on a two year old New Holland 411 I think it was back in 94. It was a 9 footer that somebody had traded in on a new Hesston 12 foot hydra swing discbine. Got the darned thing home and used it for an hour and a half and it ground up a bearing in the shaft from the PTO gear box to the cutterbar. Dealer said they should have checked it over better,bring it back and they'd fix it. They had it about 10 days of perfect haying weather so everybody else was done by the time I was getting started. They must have missed some pieces because I used it about 4 days and it tore the gears out of the cutterbar. Took it back again and the dealer said if I wanted a brand new conventional,just take one and pay the setup and shipping. So I did. Took the Hesston 1120 that I'm still using.
Just made me gun shy about trying something that's that sensitive to dropped pieces again.

 

[Anonymous-0]

This is the reason , I will go with a brand new 3 pt disc mower of a smaller size. Scared to death of a trade in or one at a consighnment auction. There is just too much expensive parts to go wrong in one.

 

[rrlund]

Ya,it must have cost that dealer some bucks to fix that one. I gave him $9000 for that one. Later in the summer after he fixed it,he had it advertised for $10,900.

 

[donjr]

Years ago we did a lot of alfalfa without a conditioner, but it had to lay at least three days and still had a few tough spots that had to be salted. The conditioner solved most of the problems except for wet weather. And alfalfa goes through a conditioner great. But grass, especially longer grasses always had a tendency to wrap a conditioner up real quick unless it was conditioned right behind the cutter bar. The haybine solved this. The discbine solved a speed problem, greatly increasing capacity to cut more, and the round baler has solved the labor problem of getting it in the barn in small squares. I used to do about 30-50 acres a year to fill a barn with 7500 bales, and needed 3-4 people to help do it. Today, I can do about 150 acres with no help, and barely break a good sweat doing it. Yeah, the machinery is bigger, but the speed and ease is worth the price. What I have to sell during the winter more than pays for what I use to feed the herd and pay for the equipment and fuel. And I can still feel like going out in the evening without the aches and sore muscles after a long haying day.

 

[kyhayman]

I cant cite you a study from any university, strictly application that applies here. The disc mower tedder combination made me a lot of money for a lot of years. In the time it took me to wrestle around changing sections on a haybine I could do a full blade change out and for the price of 3 guards I could buy a full set of blades and bolts on the disc mower. Results out the back were about the same. The key with the tedder is slow down and ted immediately, as soon as the grass begins to wilt (takes on a whitish hue). I budgeted the same amount of hours with the tedder tedding 18 feet as I did with the mower cutting 8. Mow 4 hrs, eat, ted 4 hours. Rake late the next day and bale the next. The discbine really eliminated the tedder operation for me, depending on how fast I want it to cure. I needed to crowd some this year and tedded. Wow. Cut today with heavy conditioning, ted before noon tomorrow, rake after noon and bale within the hour. I sold the last load of it today, super good color, heavy rolls, and not a speck of mold in any of my core samples. Headed south.

 

[donjr]

Hayman, try cutting in the morning, and tedding in mid afternoon. Tedd it again or not the next morning, rake it and see if it isn't about ready to bale by mid afternoon. Working for us in most cases.

 

[randallinMo]

I agree with kyhayman. I don't think you're going to find any university studies comparing/recommending one model over another. All those companies support their local universities. I personally run a Hesston 1340 discmower/conditioner hydra swing. It cuts 12 ft. I love it. It's been the least expensive piece of equipment I've ever owned....and I bought it used. Here in N Central Missouri, we have terrible humidity most times. Getting alfalfa to dry can be a challenge. Once in a while you'll experience low humidity and can get it baled within 2-3 days. I"ve found that if I mow and leave it in the windrow and then ted immediately after mowing, I lose essentially very few leaves. In a perfect world, mow it, ted it and then leave it alone till ready to rake and bale. The more you ted it, the more leaf loss you'll have. I"ve had hay that was raked with the dew on it that laid there for two days that would not dry due to the humidity. Because of that, I now use a preservative on hay that is 18-24% moisture. It works. In an even better perfect world, cut it with a simple disc mower, rake it at 65% moisture, and bale it into silage bales. NO loss. Expensive though.