Help Identify a Perkins 6.354 Engine

[Jerry Simcik]

A few years ago, we aquired a 1965 Oliver 1850. It had been repowered long before we got it. The owner we bought it from knew that is was used in the IL or IA area for many years, and that it had been a favorite of the owner before him. He brought it to East Texas (where we live), and we moved it to Central Texas (where we farm). It's a great machine!

We are curious though as to exactly which engine we have in it, just to know and in case parts are ever needed.

From what I can tell, it is a 1966-1974 model. It has a turbo from the factory, but in an odd side-mounted configuration. This leads me to beleive that this engine is from a combine. But which one? From what I can tell, it could be a New Idea, a MF, or a White machine.

The serial number indicates that the OEM was MF, but I have also heard that MF traded engines with White during this time frame.

IMO though, the most likely candidate is a MF 750 combine.

I'd like to know if you guys can make more sense of the ESN and some other stampings from the block to help me determine the origins of this engine. (A Make, Model, Year, and power rating would be great!!!)

ESN:

354 U A 16109 TL

Stamping on right side of engine, below filter:

PT
14

Various Castings:

EW [in diamond shape], A, 82

Also, see pictures:

Thank you for your help!

 

[Anonymous-0]

Let me start. The engine is an early 1966 engine. We have an 1850 in the shop that is a 1967 model and the engine serial number is like 30***. The 354 U numbers started some time in 1966. I used to have a little Perkins book which would define the letter A for me. The sufix letter T indicated it is factory Turbocharged. The letter L indicates the rear seal is a lip seal. With a rated speed of 2600 it is not a tractor engine. That is the best I can do tonight. J.

 

[Roy in UK]

Why not e mail Perkins? Years ago I wrote to Perkins in England for some information about a P3 engine that had fitted in a Ferguson tractor,I just quoted the serial number and I got a lovely letter back, the gentleman that replied even told me what DAY the engine had been built! (January 30th 1954 I seem to recall).

 

[super99]

How about some pictures of the tractor. This is my 1850 with a 354 turbo out of a MF 750 combine. I'm curious about your air cleaner and exhaust set up. I couldn't get enough air thru the regular air cleaner, so I added the combine air cleaner instead. It's been 10 years, and I'm very pleased with it. Chris

 

[Jerry Simcik]

(quoted from post at 02:29:44 03/06/13) How about some pictures of the tractor. This is my 1850 with a 354 turbo out of a MF 750 combine. I'm curious about your air cleaner and exhaust set up. I couldn't get enough air thru the regular air cleaner, so I added the combine air cleaner instead. It's been 10 years, and I'm very pleased with it. Chris

That sure looks like the same engine. The turbo is in the right place, and the turbo looks right. I think our engine is out of a MF 750.

What's the ESN on your engine? And what year model was the combine? Do you know the power rating?

As far as the exhaust, it's very similar in look to yours. The exhaust makes a 90-degree turn to the vertical, and then about a 4-foot tall chrome stack was installed. It simply goes up and has a turnout at the top. It looks good, but it is sure loud.

The intake appears to be making use of the 1850's setup, with a pre-cleaner installed.

Again, we didn't do the swap, so much more beyond what I can see I simply don't know about. We don't seem to have a problem with the engine breathing.

I'll try to get some more pics up soon. We just got done planting corn this weekend using this machine and we took lots of pics and video.

 

[Jerry Simcik]

On closer examination, I am not so sure...

As far as I can tell, the MF 750 wasn't made until the '70s, and this engine is, according to J. Schwiebert, a 1966 model (I think he's right - the date code on the fuel pump is RG = April, 1966.). Also, I notice that your MF 750 engine has two filters on the left side - ours only has one.

So, what is this out of? A MF 510? Something else??? So confused...

Anyway, here are some of the pics from this weekend:

That's me and my father and the tractor in question. I would have tried not to cut up the sheetmetal, but the way in which was done looks good and the cuts were minimal. The custom radio mount above the battery looks like it belongs there, so no real complaints with the execution...

BTW, if anyone has a good set of steel-center 34" wheels (tires not needed, but would be considered), let me know. We are in need of a good set of duals for this tractor...

And here is a shot of 5 of the 6 Olivers we own. All of these are in regular farm use. A '53 77 Gas, a '65 1650 LP w/ Hydro, a '65 1850 LP, a '65 1850 Diesel, and the '65 1850 Turbo w/ Hydro. The only one not pictured here is our '52 77 Gas. It was purchased new by my grandfather, and we keep it at our home in East Texas, rather than at the farm. The first tractor our family bought was a mid-40s model 70, and we've been Oliver fans ever since...

 

[MJ in the UK]

The man you want to contact at Perkins is Wayne Davey in the archives department and I am sure he can help you. If you contact him tell him Michael Hart from Newark tractor show put him onto you. MJ

 

[Jerry Simcik]

Thanks MJ - I e-mailed him just now!

I did notice that I posted the wrong fuel pump, so I removed it from the above phots. (The one that was pictured was off of our other 1850 diesel.) The turbo's fuel pump ID badge has been painted over quite heavily, and it can't be read presently. It is starting to leak, so I took the picture of the other fuel pump so as to order a replacement seal kit. When we have the pump off, we'll strip the ID tag so we can read it in the future.

 

[Jerry Simcik]

Double post - Sorry...

 

[Jerry Simcik]

Triple post - Sorry...

 

[super99]

The engine came out of a red cab, black interior, MF 750, probably 1975 or 1976 model. It's rated at 120 HP, I've never had it on dyno, but it has a lot more power than my regular 1850 diesel. I was concerned about the weight of the exhaust pipe on the turbo, so I made a frame to hold it. I had a pipe bent to hook up the original air cleaner to the turbo, drilled a hole and brazed in a fitting for the air restriction indicator. When I opened the throttle, it would trip the indicator, so I used the combine air cleaner. The fuel filters are off of the 750, modified the final filter bracket to hold it and did away with the primary filter on the other side of the engine. E-mail is open if you have any questions. Chris

 

[Jerry Simcik]

The electronics on this tractor were pretty miserable when we got it. No lights worked, nor did the guages. We haven't fixed all of them (like the preheater - we live in Texas after all), cause they aren't "necessary." I have no idea what you're talking about on the restriction indicator - is it an idiot light? Or are you referring to the mechanical type? I am not sure the person who did the swap thought to add one of those if that's the case... If it is on there and functioning, its not being tripped.

I tried to e-mail and pm you this, but the forum said you have not provided one???

Mine is [email protected].

 

[Jerry Simcik]

The electronics on this tractor were pretty miserable when we got it. No lights worked, nor did the guages. We haven't fixed all of them (like the preheater - we live in Texas after all), cause they aren't "necessary." I have no idea what you're talking about on the restriction indicator - is it an idiot light? Or are you referring to the mechanical type? I am not sure the person who did the swap thought to add one of those if that's the case... If it is on there and functioning, its not being tripped.

I tried to e-mail and pm you this, but the forum said you have not provided one???

Mine is [email protected].

 

[Jerry Simcik]

The electronics on this tractor were pretty miserable when we got it. No lights worked, nor did the guages. We haven't fixed all of them (like the preheater - we live in Texas after all), cause they aren't "necessary." I have no idea what you're talking about on the restriction indicator - is it an idiot light? Or are you referring to the mechanical type? I am not sure the person who did the swap thought to add one of those if that's the case... If it is on there and functioning, its not being tripped.

I tried to e-mail and pm you this, but the forum said you have not provided one???

Mine is [email protected].

 

[Jerry Simcik]

The electronics on this tractor were pretty miserable when we got it. No lights worked, nor did the guages. We haven't fixed all of them (like the preheater - we live in Texas after all), cause they aren't "necessary." I have no idea what you're talking about on the restriction indicator - is it an idiot light? Or are you referring to the mechanical type? I am not sure the person who did the swap thought to add one of those if that's the case... If it is on there and functioning, its not being tripped.

I tried to e-mail and pm you this, but the forum said you have not provided one???

Mine is jerrysimcik@gmail.

 

[Jerry Simcik]

The electronics on this tractor were pretty miserable when we got it. No lights worked, nor did the guages. We haven't fixed all of them (like the preheater - we live in Texas after all), cause they aren't "necessary." I have no idea what you're talking about on the restriction indicator - is it an idiot light? Or are you referring to the mechanical type? I am not sure the person who did the swap thought to add one of those if that's the case... If it is on there and functioning, its not being tripped.

I tried to e-mail and pm you this, but the forum said you have not provided one???

Mine is [email protected].

 

[Jerry Simcik]

Well, I have no idea why that last message posted so many times - I only clicked "Submit" once.

Furthermore, on the post, I can edit the message, but I can't delete it? Strange...

Anyway, I heard back from Mr. Davey at Perkins in regards to the engine:

The engine is a 1975 model from a 760 Massey combine. It's rated at 133hp@2300rpm.

Not bad for an 1850! Now we just need to find a good cab and that set of steel center wheels...

 

[RGMartin]

(quoted from post at 14:33:17 03/11/13) It's rated at 133hp@2300rpm.

Not bad for an 1850!

133 at the flywheel, comparing apples to apples you are probably looking at 110-115 at the PTO.

 

[Jerry Simcik]

That may be the case.

Now I just need to figure out what the difference between the turbo and non-turbo versions are. Rings, crank, pistons, injectors, etc.? Is that all the same? The internet seems to be confused on this just as much as I am. Some say there are several internal differences, others say it's just fuel and air...