Hey Animal! (soil tests)

[jodonnel]

Hey Animal, and anyone else who reads this...

Thanks for your reply to my other post. I am not certified organic but I have had zero inputs in my fields for 20 years and am wanting to get certified in the near future (within 3 years)

I got my soil tests back for my fields that I'd like to put into good hay and my pH levels are all acidic ranging from 5 to 5.8. I'm looking at roughly 4tons/acre of lime. How do you handle liming as a certified organic operation? is there such thing as organic lime? do you hire out or do it yourself?

Also, how do you handle you're other fertilizer requirements as an organic operation. Are there certified organic sources for N-P-K available for purchase (I compost my manure from my sheep but I surely don't have the voulme for what the soil tests are calling for in order to bring a full yield off of my fields)

I'm trying to decide if I delay organic certification by 3 years and just get all my fields up to par with non organic inputs this year in order to get a good baseline to start from or if I stick with organic inputs pay the extra money in order to get certified sooner and see a return from a certified organic product. I would rather stay with organic inputs, but I have to run the numbers myself to see if it's feasible.

I'd be really interested in hearing what you do, or any other organic operations do, when trying to bring their fields up to par.

Also, I'm re-thinking planting Sudan grass and wondering if I could plant a clover, alfalfa, or timothy with a cover crop of oats in order to get a perennial hay crop in this year? If I lime (and fertilize) now, will I be able to plant the fields this spring with any hope of a decent yield in the late summer?

Thanks in advance,

Jameson

 

[Vernon in Ks]

Around here Lime is a crushed stone/rock. How can you get more organic then that?

 

[jodonnel]

I'm curious then since, Hydrated Lime is a "synthetic substance allowed for use in organic crop production" as defined by the USDA, is any type of lime or lime application considered non organic?

 

[Animal]

I get my lime from the local quarry, just keep your receipts and give them to your certifier to show it is natural instead of synthetic lime. I use an old ez flow drop spreader myself for spreading, but if you are getting ag lime from the quarry, they should know of someone to spread it. I have found that you can get p&k inputs organic certified from different sources but they are expensive. I have used buckwheat as a plow down as this brings the p&k up to par most generally. What I am reading between the lines here I think is that you would really like a hay crop this year. If it were me I would plant me some oats interseeded with red clover and use a real good inoculant on the clover seed to get that N a working and let nature take its coarse. That oat hay is some real good stuff and if we have some decent rains in July and August you should get a second cutting of clover. I do not know who did your soil test, but personally I do not use any of the local feed and seed dealers as they are in the business of selling fertilizer. By the way what did your trace minerals look like?

 

[showcrop]

my lime comes from a quarry that is about 100 miles away so the hauling is a big factor. I get 30- 33 ton loads of what they call wet or damp lime. I rent a Stoltsfus spreader for a day and do half of my fields and some custom application which brings down the amount of money that I am putting out myself. The damp lime shoots straight out to the sides and stays where you put it. Doesn't blow off in a cloud.

 

[Vernon in Ks]

Sorry, I don"t know the answer to that.

 

[paul]

Be curious to know how short of P & K you are. N is a non-issue, you can raise that with a legume; but the P & K on ground that has been harvested (hay???) for 20 years with nothing added could be bad, and the subsoil can be pretty depleated too - perannual crops like hay seend roots down deep already & pulled all the good stuff up. In fact, a deep soil sample might be a good idea, find out what is down there about a foot deep, sometimes the ph is different, and see what the P & K is for deep rooted crops to latch on to. Something to plan for in a future year.

If you want to go organic sooner, I'd find out the rules, and get real cosy with a livestock operator near you, have them load your soils up. That will be about the cheapest organic P, with some K, you can get. You'll also get a lot of N for the first 2 years, as well as a lot of weed seeds. First check out the rules for certifying, can be issues of manure coming from non-organic livestock in some cases - depends on the paperwork pushers in your location.

Composted manure is wonderful, few less weeds, but you'll pay more, not common to find around 'here'. Might be able to start your own pile to composte, if local rules allow you to stockpile manure - you'll need something in the future.

The manure will give you micro nutrients that your soil is lacking, so even for the cost, will add a lot more than organic minerals hauled in from a quarry.

You'll likely need all the lime, or a tad more or a tad sooner, with manure - it tends to be a bit acidic.

Lime is most imnportant, get that done no matter what. Acid soil ties up all the N, P, & K, so even if your soil is full, the roots won't get to it in acidic soil.

--->Paul

 

[jodonnel]

Hey everyone, thanks for the replies. You guys are a ton of help to a young guy like myself.

Animal and Paul, for one of my 4 acre fields (these are the best levels of NPK in any of my fields) my soil test results (done by Penn State) read:

5.4 Ph acidic
29 P (ppm) barely optimal
116 K (ppm) optimal
174 Mg (ppm) on the high end of optimal

trace elements:
3.7 zinc (ppm)
2.1 copper (ppm)
19.9 sulfur (ppm)

I know the lime will take some time to bring the Ph up. Is it still a good idea to plant with an initially low pH like this and NPK levels like these? (and Animal you read between the lines correctly, bottom line I would like to put up a new hay crop this summer/fall if possible) any more thoughts?