How good are the new bigger 4cyl's?

[Philip d]

The last 4cyl field tractor we had was a Kubota M126x and it did alright. It would pull the 14' Kongskild harrows 4.5-6 mph depending on weather you were going up or down hill. We traded it for a NewHolland T6 165 with a 6 cyl and it pulls the same harrows in the same fields 6.9 mph up and down hill all day if you choose to go that fast and they are rated almost the same hp. Our T6 is up for lease in a year. They no longer offer a 6 cyl in Newhollands T6 unless you get a 180. The dealers all say the new 4cyl tractors are a lot better engines than from years back and we wouldn't miss the 6cyl. Kubota goes up to 171 engine hp in 4cyl and you have to get almost 200 hp in an Agco brand to get a 6 now too. Not sure about Deere. I saw a video not long ago they field tested a 4 cyl 170 hp Massey and a T7 170 NewHolland with a 6. Exact same hp almost identical wheelbase,weight and gear ratios. They had a new 5 sod roll over plow behind each of them. The 4 cyl Massey was bogging down loosing speed on hills and hard going and the 6 cyl NewHolland was staying ahead of it not loosing pace. Keeping pace to me means x more acres worked in a day or x more loads chopped per day as well. So do I listen to my gut and either buy out our current tractor were very happy with if we're not overly comfortable with the new payment amount on a 180 to stay with a 6 or believe a 4 will lug just as hard and try it? I told our dealer if the new payment he proposes on a new one is much higher than what we're paying now we'll buy it out and build equity in it and possibly trade it in in a few years time.

 

[JDIH]

Seems like the current trend is to use a small engine (4 cylinder) with a turbo squeezing everything it has out of it. I'm not convinced you can get the torque out of one that a 6 cylinder can deliver, or the longevity of the engine of a 6 cylinder.

 

[mtf]

I was told by our new holland guy, that the smaller 6's would not pass emission standards. So they concentrated on more efficient 4 cylinders.
I'm going to keep my 2003 tm new holland until I run the wheels off of it. I like the smoother ride of a longer 6 cylinder.

 

[d9gdon]

Caterpillar was getting 180 hp out of a 4 cylinder engine in their D7E dozer back in the sixties. They lasted 20,000 hours.

Before you say that's different altogether, they offered it in direct drive as well and many were used in agriculture operations in primary tillage.

 

[JD Seller]

The emission requirements are why they are going to smaller motors and then PUSHING the crap out of them. There is no way they will last as long as the older motors. You can have long life or high performance but rarely both.

It sounds like your leasing the tractors. I would buy your current one and concentrate on paying it off. That is the best long term financial plan for YOU. The dealership will make more getting you to turn in your current tractor and leasing another one. So be very careful listening to them. Remember while they are not an enemy their agenda is the exact opposite of yours. They want to keep all the money they can on the deals. So having a good low houred tractor to sell used and move a new one out the door is THEIR best deal. Your best deal is to buy that same low houred leased tractor and pay it off. The starting price will be much lower. So the total dollars involved is much better for you.

Leasing a tractor rarely is the best deal on spending the least money. It may make sense for other reasons but not saving money long term on the purchase of the tractor.

So if you have had good luck with and feel that your current tractor is a good sound tractor, I would buy it and build equity in it. New Iron rarely beats good used in saving money.

 

[Ken Macfarlane]

I think you may want to look at the specs closer, a t6 165 at peak hp has about 40 hp more than that Kubota.

The nh had torque / hp management that either had to have pto engaged or out of lower gears to remove the fuel limits so they didn?t tear up the gearbox.

 

[VicS]

Old ideas are hard to shake. A newer engine
with a turbo and a intercooler will run
cooler than say a 4440 JD. We have a 126GX
Kubota not much wrong with it. Its a 4
cylinder. Think it is 370 or so cubic in.
It is really smooth running, i dont think
you can tell it is a 4 cyl. I agree with JD
seller. On the lease.

 

[VicS]

How is 165 and 126 almost the same.

 

[Philip d]

According to tractor data.com the 165 they tested put out 115 pto hp and the 126 they had was 108.

 

[Philip d]

Thank you JD. That's exactly what we were thinking too. We bought the extended 6 yr powertrain warranty at the time so if we keep it we'll still be covered a full year after buying it out. The original plan when we leased the 125x 10 years ago was lease then buy but it had a lot of issues so we got the 126,it had a lot of issues too so then came the 165 and it hasn't to date had any issues.

 

[Bruce from Can.]

I recently looked at lease, vs o% , vs cash up front. No question, buying with cash on the size tractor you are looking at can be 8-10 grand cheaper that the 0%. The finance charges are built into the price. And the lease is even more expensive, by the time you make all of the lease payments, then the buy out at the end. As they say, you have to start somewhere, and if you can?t pay cash, the finance route isn?t too bad.
One thing I believe is you either have to turn the tractors in before they get too old / or too many hours, so the dealer has a good used unit to resell if you expect to get a good trade allowance. And what a tractor really cost you is the difference between what you paid for it, and what you sell/ trade it for. So if you bought a tractor New for 100 grand, used it for 4 years, then turned it in for 80 , grand with 2400 hours , then it cost you $5,000.00 per year, or just over $8.00 per hour. With no parts or repairs.

 

[Ken Macfarlane]

Tractordata is wrong on most torque managed tractors. It?s 165 on boost.

 

[Philip d]

Oh nothing's free that's for sure. We can buy this one out in a year for 58 000 ,that's with a self level soft ride loader and easy ride cab. The new M7 Kubota's start at 158000 plus a loader so I'm pretty sure that's way out of budget too. If we buy this one and I expect we will we'll have 1 more year of power train warranty to go with it and our buy payment would match our current lease payment which would be better than a lease payment that's 2-300 higher than current and another possible 10000 tagged onto the buy out at the end. We'll see what he comes up with but with all the chopping we do in finicky weather we don't want any less torque than we currently have nor do we need a higher payment.

 

[cumminspuller]

I'm not nearly as experienced and knowledgeable as some on here. I would say if your current tractor has been good to you with little to no break downs and you like it. Then keep it. I think with the 6 cylinder you'll be better off long term. I think the 4 cylinders are good but working ground and chopping silage like you do I don't feel confident that any 4 cylinder would last like a 6 cylinder would. Just my 2 cents worth. Hope it all works out for you.

 

[JimB2]

Hi Philip, cannot comment on newer models 4 cyl vs 6 cyl but I know what happened to two neighbours several years ago.
One had IH 656U Diesel 6 cyl D-282(not turned up) and the other had IH 684 D-239 with T/A turned up to 70 HP PTO on the Dyno.
The neighbour with 656 used to chop the neighbor with 684 silage each fall with NH Super 717 chopper. Neighbour with 656 retired from farming and sold NH chopper, blower and wagons to neighbour with 684. The 684 would run the chopper OK on the level but if there was a hill in the field and a partial load in the wagon the 684 had to pull the T/A where as the 656 chopping the same field would have just blown a bit of smoke and continued. Neighbour traded 684 for CIH 4230 D-268 Diesel with over 70 HP.

Conclusion the 6 cyl had more lugging power than the 4 cyl of same HP range.

JimB

 

[farmer boy]

What's the price difference between the 4 cylinder you want and the 6 cylinder? I've never actually used either in the field, but on the dyno, the 4 cylinder performs great. 135 Maxxum made 130 PTO HP unboosted, and 150 boosted on the PTO. I've also dyno'd a few Puma 150's with the 6.7, and they performed worse than the Maxxum 135 unboosted.

I do have a thing for Kubota tractors, but for the time being, I'd stay away from them until they really get their emissions systems figured out. I think right now, CNH and AGCO have the best systems.

CNH was still learning when they released the Tier 4A systems. The 4B systems have basically been a flawless system. If you've been happy with the DEF system on your T6.165, you'd be happy with the 4B system. As far as your T6.165 DEF system causing trouble down the road, I wouldn't worry about that too much. If it's still in warranty, get an end of warranty inspection done and check the front end closely. It's likely around the weakest point on the tractor. If you're going to have trouble stomaching the payments on a new 6 cylinder tractor, just keep the 165 if you're happy with it.

 

[buickanddeere]

4 or 6 is not an issue to be concerned about . Just purchase the chassis size and HP required .
The 6 by design is naturally vibration canceling vs a four that requires a balance shaft.

 

[fixerupper]

There's no replacement for displacement. You need cubes to keep that tractor at a constant speed in variable load conditions. A whiney torboed small cube engine can't pull the load as well as an equal horsepower large cube engine but the small whiney is cleaner and that's what matters to the greenies.