How should I fix this trailer??

[Lanse]

Remember that trailer tailgate that I built last summer?? Well, the person that I made that for called me up and wanted me to take a look at his brother's trailer, and dropped it off today. Its my first ever repeat business!! Im excited about it!!

Anyway, I took a look at it, and came up with a few different ways that I could fix it, and he seemed to like the idea summed up in the picture the best, since he never uses it as a tilt trailer .

But this is also my first ever repair to the frame of a trailer. I figured that if someone's downhill crappy mig weld has held it for this long, I should be able to do something here. But I really want to ask, too. The gusseted piece that runs to the hitch of the truck is 1/8" steel, and everything else is 1/4".

What I'd like to do is to remove everything that I need to with the plasma, and then grind it all clean. Flap wheel everything again, and since its thin material , tig the first pass and then cover it with a weave, 3/32" 7018 run at a fairly low amperage, and a little at a time to keep the metal cool. Would it be necessary to fishplate the bottom piece? For a light duty trailer with as much weld on it as Im gonna put on there, I think it might be overkill, but Im really hoping that you guys will chime in with your thoughts. Thanks in advance, guys

 

[Puddles]

I don't understand where this is on the trailer! What does that padeye do?

 

[Puddles]

Is it possible to insert a backing plate inside the square tubing to eliminate that gap? If so, that is what I'd do. Weld it up, and cut two oval fish plates, and weld them on each side of the square tube, weld all the way around the fish plates.

 

[Lanse]

This is on the front of the trailer, you're
looking at the front of the "bed" and that
rectangular tube is the hitch, it runs to that
thing that you put over the ball hitch on a truck.

Its a tilting trailer (for now lol), and so the
box is hinged on the frame about halfway back,
right over the axle.

If you take the bolt out of the padeye, then the
box tilts back and the back of the box hits the
ground, so you can just drive a lawnmower,
wheelbarrow, whatever up into the trailer, no
tailgate or ramps required. Its a cool design,
just poorly executed, or atleast welded...

 

[Puddles]

So when you remove that one rusted bolt the trailer tilts?

I'd still try to insert some backing plates to bridge that gap, weld the gap up, grind the welds down flush, and fish plate the break, two sides, and maybe even the bottom.

 

[Lanse]

Hmmm, that gap closes up on its own when you take
the weight off the tongue, there wasnt a gap there
when it was welded. You know how busted up cars
and trucks tend to "banana" when they've got frame
issues or whatever? This trailers doing basically
the same thing... All the weight is currently on
that bolt (except for whatevers on that blue "fix"
that got the trailer here), instead of on that
weld that broke...

If you think fish-plates are in order, ill defiantly make some up. I appreciate the insight
man, thanks

 

[Lanse]

In theory, yes, itll tilt without that bolt in
there...

You mean kinda like the open-root butt joints with
a backing strip that we've done in school im
assuming? Alright, I guess thats what I'll do
then.

Btw man, our new teacher was a pipefitter, and
says he'll teach us all we can learn!! And, we'll
have D1 structural certs by the end of the year if
all goes well, too. Haha, I know thats irreverent
to this, I just thought Id share. lol

 

[Puddles]

Yes just like open root butt joint.

Grind all the rust and bad weld out, grind a bevel in the walls of the square tube. Close up the gap, and weld it up. Grind flush, and fish plate.
Lanse, generally I'm not big on fish plates, but I smell a design flaw, abuse, or maybe just a bad weld. In this case I'd fish plate the he!! out of it. Hey good excuse to use that new plasma! :lol:


Get that pipe fitter to teach you all he can about welding pipe. SMAW GTAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 8)

 

[Anonymous-0]

Shoot, just cleaned up the turkey chit weld that broke, reweld and then weld the padeye to the tongue. Would have twice as much area welded with good welding, would never break if you used 6018 and if you wanted to you could put a piece of flat stock bout 2 1/2" x 12" on the bottom. Would still be able to tilt this way.

 

[Anonymous-0]

I think the design flaw is that the padeye never got welded.

 

[JDseller]

If you do what you showed in the picture it would not tilt anymore. That would make the trailer much less handy. The problems is that these type bang down after you drive on them far enough. That really puts a lot of stress on the hitch tube.

Just cut out the bad/broken weld and steel. Then align everything back to straight. The reweld it where it broke. THEN make some plates to reinforce the original tongue with. Make the side plates come clear to the front. Make the back of these plates at an angle and then only weld the backs in the middle of the side of the tongue tube. That way you are not putting a weld right across it to crack along. Then get a longer piece of flat iron the same width as the new tongue tube will be over all. Make it be several feet long. Place it on the bottom of the joint. Then spot weld it along the corners to the tongue. Make the spots be 1-2 inch long with a 1-2 inch break between them. This one will actually do the most good as it will be in tension whan force is applied down on the tongue.

 

[souNdguy]

i wouldn't make it a non tilting trailer.. I'd just fix the damaged parts and go.

soundguy

 

[jackinok]

how big of a trailer is this?appears to have been quite heavily overloaded at one time or another.i think that myself i would take some heavy plate start at top of hitch and cut it to clear bottom of bed and go back a foot or so.if i'm looking at this right the weld thats broken actually not holds all the weight ,but all the forces from pulling,bouncing etc,is that correct?if it were mine i would cut it all off leaving just tilt pin part on bed,put plate down bothsides of hitch starting well forward of where you are showing ,drop straight down where tilt pin is and then run a foot or so down both sides of trailer frame under bed.would be even better in my opinion to remove all of tilt pin stuff install a good gusset there in center of drop hitch part and move tilt pin to the top,any thing to reinforce that joint where its broken.pretty weak looking setup to me.wouldnt last thirty days on our rough roads.

 

[Kirk Grau]

I am with some of the others that say keep it tilting if possible, it is handy when you need it. Looks from the picture like you could get a pretty heavy gusset to fit between the channel of the tilting portion of the trailer, could probably drill a hole to allow clearance for the bolt as well. It is an obvious stress point on the trialer so I would consider fishplates/gussets/etc. to beef it up.

Good Luck,

Kirk

 

[Dick L]

If it were mine I would clean up the broken bird droppings, weld it back with 7018. I would then cut off the hold down bracket, cut a square plate that covered that bracket and weld it over the trailer frame and hitch frame and drill a hole for the hold down. I would drill the plate with two 1/2" or larger hole that would be in the crnter of the trailer frame as well as two holes in the hitch frame and weld the holes shut to the frame. That would tie the frame and the tilt hold down all together. Quick, easy, strong and done.

 

[Puddles]

Another thought Lanse. You're out there a country mile far as liabilities! We all loose when going to court, only the lawyers win! Trust me I've been down this road before, with you not being certified, or having at least 20-years in the welding trade the courts will ruin you!

Anyway my point, after making the weld repair, what do you think about an “L” shape fish plate, but through bolt it, no welding? Use 4-bolts, with nylon lock nuts.

 

[ScottP]

That is why his best bet is to put it back just the way it was. He would not be re-engineering anything.
All liability should fall back onto the original engineer, his design his liability.

Lanse you don't need to make fish plates or gussets as it's already there.

Clean up old weld, line it up weld it with whatever rod blows your skirt up, then where the bracket with the bolt is weld it at the bottom where it isn't welded and there is your gusset.

There is no need to reinvent the wheel here.

Scott

 

[Lanse]

Id probably use like 6 bolts

Haha... Well, I just got done welding the
horizontal tube to the bed frame, and then to the
vertical tube. I cut out the bad sections with the
plasma and the sawzall, cleaned them up with the
grinder, then got everything lined up. Put a nice
big tack in the corner, and measured from a random
hole in the middle of the tongue to both corners
of the bed, and moved it until both measurements
were the same. Puddles, you told me that trick,
thanks

And then I started welding. I left a little gap
between the pieces and welded them open root with
some 3/32" 6011 and then let it cool, ground it
down, cleaned it up, and then started my "Z" weave
with some 3/32" 7018. That SUCKED!! lol. I had to
run it at a pretty low amperage (65-75) to keep
from burning through, and the Hobarts arent the
best for strikes and re-strikes anyway. I could
only weld upwards about an inch at a time before
the puddle started looking really hot and I knew
that I had to stop. But I got to the top and its
not the prettiest "Z" weave Ive ever done (would
have been better without the dang restrikes), but
I know it got a lot of penetration!! lol.

Ill post pictures soon, I only came back in the
house because my video camera died...

I dont know how much more I'll do tonight, I still
have to clean up out there, and I have to get up
for school in the morning. The customer said he
isnt in a hurry at all to get this thing back, but
I want to get it done in a timely manner...

Youve been a big help here, thanks...

Why do you think I should bolt the plates, as opposed to welding them on there? I like the idea
just because I wont have to do anymore uphill
3/32" 7018 on that thin material lol, but I want
to know what you think. Ill get some bolts on my
way home tomorrow from school...

 

[Anonymous-0]

you think the same way I do, see my post below. That trailer would never break welded like that, makes me wonder if thats not how it should of been welded when new, and someone only welded half of it.

 

[Puddles]

Reason for the bolts, (mechanical splice), is to take you out of the equation for a liability issue. Being as you're not certified, nor 20 + years as a pro welder. Any fool can drill a few holes and insert bolts.
Also not being there to see the reaction to the base metal from all the welding I feel more comfortable with you using bolts than welding, (in this situation). :wink:

 

[BFO]

To get the tougue alingnment, you should always take your measurements from each spring hanger, not the corner of the bed. The spring hangers determine the position of the axle. More than likely the bed isn't even close to square.

 

[BFO]

Another piece of advice is never cut someone else, or thier work down. " I figured that if someone's downhill crappy mig weld has held it for this long", is not professional, and from what I see you have'nt earned the right to criticise anyone. You want business, be professional, be humble, listen and be ready to learn. Keep your negative thoughts to yourself. No matter how good you think you are, there will be someone better, and just think of how it would feel to be on the recieving end.

 

[jose bagge]

knotch out the old welds, reshoot the welds, cut some diamond shaped external gussets and plate over the welds. simple stuff- just like subframes on late model stock cars.

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 07:54:26 09/15/11) Another piece of advice is never cut someone else, or thier work down. " I figured that if someone's downhill crappy mig weld has held it for this long", is not professional, and from what I see you have'nt earned the right to criticise anyone. You want business, be professional, be humble, listen and be ready to learn. Keep your negative thoughts to yourself. No matter how good you think you are, there will be someone better, and just think of how it would feel to be on the recieving end.

Good advice right there.

 

[Puddles]

So you just going to leave us hanging? How did you come out on the fix? Pictures?