I dont do fractions

[tom upton]

I used to do the hiring at Sawmill Manufacturing plant. When interviewing younger people or even interviewing co-op students one of my first questions was do you know how to read a tape meausure? Most maybe 75-80 percent could read an imperial tape, rest could either read metric only or not at all. I only remember hiring one young lad that couldnt read a tape. He was honest and told me no he couldnt, but he would sure like to learn how. Less than 5 minutes of explanation and he had no problem.
Surprisingly there was a larger percentage of older people that couldnt correctly answer basic questions about there own trade.

 

[caterpillar guy]

Well Fractions are something that can be as easy or complicated as the person makes them. As for doing decimal equivalents I prefer to convert them to decimals since it is much easier to add subtract and such that way than to have to find the least common denominator to work them when if in decimals all you have to do is add or subtract them like 0.250is a 1/4 and such. I suppose I drove a cop silly when he looked at my log book since that was how I did that. As for not being able to read or know if they can read fractions . The hiring process where the rules have changed so much you can't hardly ask a question of them or it is some kind of discrimination any more so with that being the case it makes it hard to find out much about ones ability to do things. I would think most could do simple fractions or at the very least read them to find a wrench with the figure stamped on the handle of them. Metris is the one that sucks since it seems they don't make good heads and nuts shapes. the head seem to have a slight taper to them so it makes it hard get tight bolts loose without slipping off and some are not to well made so they are slightly over sized so the wrench has to be forced on or is loose so they strip more easily. Were as the SAE heads and nuts seem to be more squarely made from end to center of bolt or nut top to bottom so they hold better.

 

[Rich'sToys]

I’ve never heard metrics used in carpentry so what would be the metic equivalent of a 2x4 stud cut 7 ft 10 1/2 inches long

Are studs a different length now than they used to be? I always remembered them as being 92 5/8". Your numbers equate to 94 1/2".

 

[Caryc]

Interesting thread.
I would have had to be there to decide.
Did the kid say it as an act of defiance or as an admission of his or his school's failure.
And do we know if the words he used were "I don’t do fractions." or "I don't know how to do fractions."
We are getting this through three tellings you know.
Either way, I woulda told him, "Well, its your lucky day."
And I would have taken him over to the tool box and gave him a ten cent lesson on where to look on wrenches and sockets for their size and finding the right one.
Its that or get up off the ground each time you need a tool and get it yourself.
And that aint gonna happen very often if he's there.

So, I guess you are assuming that the kid was so stupid that he didn't know what a wrench was let alone that there were different sizes. That kids sounds very useless to me.

 

[Caryc]

Well Fractions are something that can be as easy or complicated as the person makes them. As for doing decimal equivalents I prefer to convert them to decimals since it is much easier to add subtract and such that way than to have to find the least common denominator to work them when if in decimals all you have to do is add or subtract them like 0.250is a 1/4 and such. I suppose I drove a cop silly when he looked at my log book since that was how I did that. As for not being able to read or know if they can read fractions . The hiring process where the rules have changed so much you can't hardly ask a question of them or it is some kind of discrimination any more so with that being the case it makes it hard to find out much about ones ability to do things. I would think most could do simple fractions or at the very least read them to find a wrench with the figure stamped on the handle of them. Metris is the one that sucks since it seems they don't make good heads and nuts shapes. the head seem to have a slight taper to them so it makes it hard get tight bolts loose without slipping off and some are not to well made so they are slightly over sized so the wrench has to be forced on or is loose so they strip more easily. Were as the SAE heads and nuts seem to be more squarely made from end to center of bolt or nut top to bottom so they hold better.

As I keep saying, get a Metrinch socket / wrench set. It works by grabbing the flats of a nut head or bolt head not the points.

 

[WilBury]

I used to do the hiring at Sawmill Manufacturing plant. When interviewing younger people or even interviewing co-op students one of my first questions was do you know how to read a tape meausure? Most maybe 75-80 percent could read an imperial tape, rest could either read metric only or not at all. I only remember hiring one young lad that couldnt read a tape. He was honest and told me no he couldnt, but he would sure like to learn how. Less than 5 minutes of explanation and he had no problem.
Surprisingly there was a larger percentage of older people that couldnt correctly answer basic questions about there own trade.

Interviewed for a job in a furniture shop shop when I was 17 or 18 and tried to BS him about my "skills". Was aked to read a tape. Got the first measurement right but failed to read the second mark correctly. Finer scale at the beginning of most tapes!!
Did not get the job...

 

[Ultradog MN]

So, I guess you are assuming that the kid was so stupid that he didn't know what a wrench was let alone that there were different sizes. That kids sounds very useless to me.

No Carryc,
I didn't assume the kid was stupid.
That sounds more like the assuming you do. Like how we here are too dumb to run a chainsaw so need your admonishments about safety.

I did assume a few things tho.
Like
he probably could read the size marking on a wrench even if he didnt learn to add and subtract fractions in school.
I assume that in a couple more lessons we could go into open end vs box end wrenches and deep well vs shallow and 6 point vs 12 point sockets and 3/8 vs 1/2" drive ratchets and why and when each one is used.
And I assume that since he's a kid and when given the opportunity, most kids are willing to learn and be helpful - especially if you're kind to them.

 

[Brown David]

So, I guess you are assuming that the kid was so stupid that he didn't know what a wrench was let alone that there were different sizes. That kids sounds very useless to me.

You, me, and everyone else here was useless too until someone taught us things.

 

[Hemmjo]

Here's a good one . When I was hauling for a major feed company here, I was a driver trainer. We would deliver the processed feed and then sometimes backhaul the customers grain. I had a new trainee with me one day. And after unloading the feed we reloaded with the customers corn. So after loading and heading back to the mill he asked me how much the corn was worth. I told him it was about $$ per bushel. He looked at me and said "what's a bushel". Well I about fell out of the truck. And this was about 20 years ago. I really just wanted to dump him on the side of the road right then and there. How can someone be so stupid.

Yeah, just dump him on the side of the road. It is not his fault he does not know what a bushel is.

You missed the teaching moment.

 

[scootergmc]

And if I get one more kid who doesn't know how to use an abacus I swear I'm gonna punch someone...

Seriously though- I can't wait until one of you guys freaks out over your first kid who doesn't know the difference between clockwise and counter clockwise, because it's here and it's real.

 

[Texasmark]

Are studs a different length now than they used to be? I always remembered them as being 92 5/8". Your numbers equate to 94 1/2".

92 5/8" studs were for back when 2x4's were a stupid number just over 1 1/2"...I forget the number, thick. In building my house that stupid dimension drove me nuts. So in the continuing increased cost and reduction in what it buys concept in markets, the 1 1/2 current dimension affecting headers and sole plates would affect the stud length unless sheet rock is no longer 4x8......I would think.

 

[Destroked 450]

Are studs a different length now than they used to be? I always remembered them as being 92 5/8". Your numbers equate to 94 1/2".

Depends on what you’re building.
I just threw out a generic number of the top of my head, you’re referring to a finished wall stud for an average home. My home doesn’t have any 2x4 wall studs that are 7 ft 8 1/2” long

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

Point is, is't a matter of motivation. You can't force knowledge on somebody. All he cared about in high school was fast cars and girls. He excelled at his vocational classes at the career center, but the academic classes, he didn't see any use for any of them. We were just talking about it last Sunday at a reunion. He didn't do well in math either, didn't see any use for it in the real world, but now he owns an engine machine shop and that's all he does is use math.

The other one is a near genius. He failed a high school class one time just to see if he could do it. He got bored with college after one semester. He said he already knew everything they were trying to teach him. He tried sales and construction before he settled in to tool and die so he was doing math that challenged him every day. He's at the top of his game now.

My wife quit school in the tenth grade because she was so bored. To her, all they did was sit with a pencil and a piece of paper and take notes. After the kids were born, she got her GED, went to college with it and became a nurse. She had no high school chemistry, biology, physiology or advanced math. She started right out at the college lever in those subjects.

I on the other hand was an honor student. Always near the top of my classes, but my motivation was that I just wanted out. I didn't want to fail a grade and spend an extra year there. Things still come easy for me, but I haven't done a thing in the world with any of my mental gifts. I've spent my whole life with manure and grease on my skin and clothes. At the very least, I think I was motivation for my kids and grand kids to be better than that. I was a good example by being a bad example I suppose.

That "I see no use for it in the real world" attitude is the problem. There may be no use for it, but there IS use for the thinking skills that you developed in the process of learning this "useless" stuff.

Where am I going to use blah blah blah math? Maybe you will, maybe you won't, but you also learn how to keep track of multiple things, which is an incredibly useful skill that is very much applicable in real life. That's just one example.

Your mind would not be capable of comprehending or remembering the things you do need to know in real life if you had not "wasted" all that time in school learning "useless" things. Unfortunately you can't just impart the "real life stuff" directly. You have to build up to it.

Think about it. They're not teaching that "useless" stuff in school anymore, and the main complaint is kids can't think for themselves... Hmm? Hmm? Think maybe there's a correlation?

 

[Hemmjo]

92 5/8" studs were for back when 2x4's were a stupid number just over 1 1/2"...I forget the number, thick. In building my house that stupid dimension drove me nuts. So in the continuing increased cost and reduction in what it buys concept in markets, the 1 1/2 current dimension affecting headers and sole plates would affect the stud length unless sheet rock is no longer 4x8......I would think.

There is always a reason why things change. To many a too quick to complain about a change with no under standing of the reason.

2×4 Lumber Sizes – The History Behind The Mystery | The Working Forest

workingforest.com

 

[Caryc]

You, me, and everyone else here was useless too until someone taught us things.

All right, I'll say it again. That's what our schools are being paid to do.

 

[Caryc]

Yeah, that's right. Place the blame on us.

 

[GChief]

Yeah, that's right. Place the blame on us.

It takes a village

But I get it, its is just easier for old farts to ridicule the kids and complain about it

 

[Ozlander]

The high school used to have an automobile course.
Of course that cost money, so they did away with it.

 

[Rich'sToys]

Depends on what you’re building.
I just threw out a generic number of the top of my head, you’re referring to a finished wall stud for an average home. My home doesn’t have any 2x4 wall studs that are 7 ft 8 1/2” long

OK, Just asking. In a former life I used to work for a carpenter, then after that as a draftsman for a home building company. In those days, a pre-cut stud was always 92 5/8". Just wondering if that had changed. If it has, no big deal. I was just curious. Or if you just threw out a random number, that's fine too.

 

[flying belgian]

All right, I'll say it again. That's what our schools are being paid to do.

Are they? Or are they being paid to teach them how to instantly look up the information they need? I was taught how to disect a frog but I've never needed to do that so I forgot how. I taught myself how to lookup "frog dissection" on the internet in case I ever need to do it. I don't like change any more than you do but we need to get up to speed.