I need advice on a 4 row John Deere Flex 71 Plate Plante

[wcaughman]

I decided to get my granddad's planters out and try to plant a few acres of sunflowers for a dove field. I was never taught how to set it up or operate it. Sadly, he passed away before I was born. I found out that Yetter bought the patent and their manual is close to the same as the original JD planter. However, my unit looks a little different so I don't believe it operates exactly like the Yetter 71 does.

I used the unit last year with everything set as it was last used except I installed the correct plates for sunflowers. I had a decent stand but I believe it was just beginner's luck. This year, I tried to improve a few things but believe I don't have the planter setup correctly or as good as it should be.

I don't know much about farming but here's the information I know. The planter is a 3 pt 4 row unit, 36-inch row spacing has two toolbars, both square but oriented like a diamond with the front one used to mount 3 pt hitch and fertilizer boxes. The back one is for planter units. The planter units have round fiberglass seed boxes with black plastic lids. The 2 metal fertilizer hoppers were removed because they were rusted out. The planter also has 2 hydraulic row markers, 2 gauge wheels?, and rectangular 'skid' type plates under seed openers which I believe set the seed depth?

I haven't found much on the internet that looks like the same model I have. I'm not sure if mine was modified or what. I've thought about removing the 'extra' parts to get it to look/operate closer to the Yetter 71 model, but wanted to get someone to weigh in who knows better than me.

Thank you for your time and I appreciate anyone's advice.

Billy

Here is an example of the skid plates shown better on an image I found on Google.

This post was edited by wcaughman on 04/25/2022 at 07:52 am.

 

[paul]

Those types of plates dont work at all in the wet clay we have up here in my area, so hope some southern folk can help you. That is kind of specialized for your soil
types.

Its not wrong or bad, just more rare.

Paul

 

[Tx Jim]

Gauge shoes were an option. I think the shoes were required in sandy soils to help control seed planting depth

 

[wcaughman]

Paul - thank you for your response.

 

[wcaughman]

Jim - thanks for your explanation. That makes sense since we're located in a very sandy area.

Far as operating this planter, the depth isn't dictated by the 3pt lift since the gauge shoes keep everything constant, correct? Basically, I could let the lift all the way down (barring that it does start 'digging') and the planter is still only going to plant it no deeper than the depth set on the gauge shoes?

Thank you.

This post was edited by wcaughman on 04/25/2022 at 02:08 pm.

 

[paul]

The frame of the planter should be about half way down so each row can move up and down to adjust for rolling ground. The 2 gauge wheels should accomplish that,
along with the top link length.

Those 2 handles on the front f each row unit have to do with row depth?

 

[spacechem]

The reason you aren't finding photos the same as yours is that the 71 units were unit planters. There are a thousand ways they could be optioned and configured on about any toolbar.

Those 'skid shoes' are for planting on raised beds. You don't need them.

 

[wcaughman]

Paul - I'm assuming you are referring to the 2 "T" handles I circled in red?

I'm not completely sure what their purpose is. They connect to a spring but when I tried to move the handles up or down, I didn't see what they adjusted. Yetter says seed depth is adjusted by the depth control cam which they detail how to adjust in their PDF manual (see screenshot below). In my circumstance, I believe depth can only be adjusted by moving the gauge shoe (mentioned by Jim) up or down via a different bolt hole because all the weight rests on the gauge shoe and the gauge wheel, not the press wheel.

I could be wrong about this, so feel free to correct me if that's the case.

Thank you.

-Billy





This post was edited by wcaughman on 04/26/2022 at 06:09 am.

 

[spacechem]

I'll try again. Those things you call skid shoes DO NOT control seed depth. Try to get that out of your mind. The small wheel at the back of each unit does three things: 1. It drives the seed meter through a chain. 2. IT CONTROLS PLANTING DEPTH. Someone else pointed out where you change the setting. 3. It firms soil around the seed.

For an idea what those shoes are for, watch this vodeo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzLORBMuTPw at about the 5:59 mark. They show those shoes mashing down the very loose soil to make a somewhat firm bed to plant into. The planter is configured much like yours.

Unless you are planting into raised beds as shown in the video- and I'm confident you are not- take those skid shoes off. You don't need them.

 

[Brendon-KS]

The 71 manual specifically calls those gauge shoes and the picture showing their installation has the depth control cam rotated completely back and out of play. These shoes do control the depth, just like the optional depth bands on the opener disks would do, and are adjustable for the desired setting. It is true that for a base planter the rear wheel alone gauges the depth but if either of these two options is installed it has nothing to do with it. Controlling the depth right at the opener with bands or shoes is more accurate than what the press wheel can do, especially in soft or uneven soil conditions.

 

[wcaughman]

Thank you for your response and linking that video. I'm located in SC and we have very loose sandy soils where I'm planting. As others have mentioned, it makes sense that these shoes 'firm' the seed bed and ensure consistent planting depth, especially in areas like mine. I agree that the gauge shoes would be necessary for planting in raised beds as you mention. However, the gauge shoes themselves attach with a bracket that has adjustment holes which depending on the hole selected, let the openers go deeper or shallower. With the gauge shoes on, the opener depth (i.e. planting depth) is set and cannot be altered since the openers are in a fixed depth position.

(reply to post at 03:54:36 04/27/22)

Brendon - Thank you for your response. It was detailed and easy to follow.

Basically what I come to realize is soil preparation is extremely important with this setup. The soil almost needs to be 'fluffy' or loosely compacted. Next planting season, I plan to rototill or field cultivate ~ 1 week or less before I come back and plant. This way the depth shoes get good contact and do their job for ensuring a consistent planting depth.

Does anyone know what the "T" handles are for that I circled in red?

Thanks for the help.

- Billy

 

[J.Wondergem]

I think that is not the depth shoe, that is a compact shoe. you set the holes for how hard you want to pack the soil. If it still has the tire in back of the planting unit. You need a manual.

This post was edited by J.Wondergem on 04/27/2022 at 06:47 am.

 

[paul]

Your circled handles change the angle of the spring they are attached to. Sitting still they appear to do very little as not much is changing, but it makes a big difference
for the tension of the spring as it is moving, as to what angle it is at.

On a normal setup they would adjust the down pressure.

With those very specialized skid plate attachments, I really have little clue how the setup of that deal is. That all is very outside of normal for my conditions.

Paul

 

[wcaughman]

This post was edited by wcaughman on 04/27/2022 at 08:43 am.

 

[wcaughman]

The pictures I posted don't do a good job of showing this, but the openers pass through the shoes via a slit in them. If the shoes are adjusted up, the opener remains in the same position and sticks out that much more which then plants that much deeper. If the shoe/plate ran in front of the opener, I would agree with you. I'm going to try and get some more pictures this weekend and post them.

 

[spacechem]

As I used to tell my (now ex) wife, "You're close- only 180 degrees off."

I'm aware of the relative positions fore-and-aft of the shoe and the opener. The slot you mentioned is longer than necessary for your units because the same shoe was used for runner openers. It runs back to either side of the opener to make a firm trench for the seed.

Try this experiment: If you haven't got it out of the weeds yet, do so and then lift up on the wheel in back. It should come up a bit- maybe a couple of inches- before you hit a stop and have to really lift to raise the whole unit. Place a block (maybe one or two 2x4s) under the back wheel and lower the planter. The difference between the thickness of your block and the gap under the opener is [u:5ed09032b6]roughly[/u:5ed09032b6] the planting depth. If the wheel/arm just flop up and down and don't catch on anything, then I guess you truly do have a 'skidder' that would make depth adjustment very difficult and imprecise. [u:5ed09032b6]That's not how they were designed to work[/u:5ed09032b6].

As [b:5ed09032b6]paul[/b:5ed09032b6] pointed out, the t-handles adjust down pressure and do have some influence on planting depth in very very soft soil.

Widening out to Big Picture, Grandfather farmed at a time when mechanical tillage was about the only way to control weeds and he burned a lot of fuel doing that. By the time he was ready to plant, his fields would have been really, really soft so maybe he did need those big shoes in front to firm things up.

If your soil really is all that soft/sandy and you're just planting for some hobby purpose, I would advise less tillage, not more, even to experimenting with no tillage. I bet you could take off those shoes and plant directly into whatever conditions you have. The only problem with no-till for a hobby farmer is he doesn't feel like he is farming unless he's out there doing something with that tractor he talked his wife into letting him buy. I don't know if that's you...

But you will believe what (and whom) you choose and I can't really blame you for not taking the advice of some internet Bozo you've never met. Always, the best guide for how to manage your fields is looking around your area and asking your neighbors who farm similar soils to yours. How do they plant their crops?

As [b:5ed09032b6]J.Wondergem[/b:5ed09032b6] said, you need to get an operator's manual. There are many of them offered from Deere and elsewhere on the internet. One thing you could get from that would be an understanding of the bewildering array of equipment for the basic 71 row unit for different conditions/crops.

If you do insist on more tillage and using those shoes for planting depth control (and I bet you will), you are still going to need some pressure on those small wheels in back (BTW, your tires are on backward) as they are what drive the metering mechanism. If you find skips and other gaps in your stand, that will be because those wheels didn't have enough pressure on them to turn the meters constantly (it can be difficult to see the wheels not turning).

 

[wcaughman]

I appreciate your response and its thoroughness. I've tried something similar to your test of moving the press wheel up and down by hand. Yes, there is play like you are saying, but it just flops up and down. No movement from the whole unit (could be rust, paint, or both?). With the implement lowered as if you were planting, the implement weight seems to be resting solely on the shoes, not the press wheel. Since the shoes are wide, they can only press into the ground so much (I think of snow shoes) and then plants the seed at the preset depth (i.e. the distance the openers stick through the shoe). I truly believe this makes the planter a 'skidder' like you said. Truth be told, this offseason, I may experiment and take the things off to see how it works without the shoes. It's going to be a lot of replacing bolts, rung off heads, etc. though.

Times haven't changed much around my area... and not many farmers have evolved with technology. I agree about the hobby farmer not feeling like he is farming unless he's on the tractor. We lease out the row crop farming (cotton, corn, peanuts) on our land. Due to that, all we (my dad and I) typically do is food plots for deer and turkeys. For that, we have an old 175 Massey and about a 65 hp Kubota that we use. I only started row crop farming because of wanting to plant a dove field (~10 acres) and I've always been told sunflowers are best planted in rows for that. We already had my granddad's planters so we didn't have to go out and spend thousands on a planter (I would have pushed for a no-till planter if that were the case or either got a quote from the farmer to do it for us). Planting gives me and my dad something to do together, using something of my granddad's. We both enjoy the change of pace and slowing down. Our goals are to make a crop to feed the doves and keep it as weed free as possible. I've talked to people who also plant dove fields and this is mostly accomplished by pre-emergent herbicides (Dual and Spartan Charge) and the 'start clean, stay clean' approach. If I was farming significant acreage or for profit, I know investing in something newer or taking a different approach would be better. However, I can't justify spending thousands of dollars on something that is used about 8 hours/year. The whole purpose of me making this post was to receive guidance from people who have been there done that so that I can do the best with what I have.

The farmers around me have much larger/newer equipment; however, they still aren't 100% precision ag farmers. Only about 25% of the fields are even irrigated in my area and the land is very sandy so it is never going to make the 250 bushel/ac corn (even the irrigated fields) that other parts of the US average, just the reality of it.

I agree with you about operators manual and I'm planning on getting one soon.

Before I put the planter up for the year, I'm going to do some work on it and tweak a few things. When I do that, I'll flip those tires around. Thank you for mentioning that.

- Billy

 

[spacechem]

It's great that you and your dad have this to do together. Nice to have another pair of eyes to watch as one of you works that rear wheel up and down.

You certainly don't need a different planter. "No-till" planters are just regular meters on a beefed-up frame to take the extra weight and strain of forcing the openers into tough soil- [u:f836be96ff]something you don't have[/u:f836be96ff]. Along with a heavier planter would come the need for a bigger tractor to pull it and paying someone else to do your hobby farming just takes all the sport out of it so I agree- stick with what you've got.

Sounds like the parallel linkage isn't moving, and that's a concern, but I'm sure you'll be able to get that sorted. Maybe Grandfather did somehow bolt the linkage up solid to skid across his mushy beds?

Get that Operator's Manual sooner, not later. The Yetter PDF might be fine- I doubt they changed the design much- but still best to get the Deere one. It should have info on checking and adjusting for wear. Check the opener blades especially. They need to be right, no matter how you control depth.

One more factor you might consider: Moving the units in to 30" centers. Wide rows survive to this day mainly for the ease of harvesting cotton, but you're not planting cotton. The sunflowers will shade out the weeds sooner/better and you can more easily find a cultivator, should you decide you need one. Or maybe Grandfather left behind one of those, too? If so, it can also be adapted to narrower rows.

Good luck!