IH 350 utility Torque Amplifier not working

[nashranch]

I need troubleshooting tips on this torque Amplifier. Driving it around today and pulled the handle back and nothing happened. I've never had one of these so I have no clue how it's supposed to work. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Here's a short YouTube of me driving out today

https://youtu.be/jChXyWT-_Ik

 

[used red MN]

You are going to have to explain what you mean by
nothing happened. If you are moving the lever in the
video you are not showing us that. It does not seem to
me like the machine ever surprised you by stopping.
When you pull the lever back it should reduce the
speed noticeably. If it does not then I would say the
most likely problem is the TA direct clutch is stuck
engaged. So just like a normal clutch in machine can
stick when it sets a while so can the smaller TA clutch.
Second problem may be that is simply out of
adjustment. Someone else will have to chime in to give
you the proper procedure for that. Lastly it is possible
the something has broke on the TA clutch release
mechanism. It has a throw out bearing and pressure
plate just like a main clutch. Right now my uncles 300
has the pivot points for the clutch release levers of the
TA pressure plate broke off. Two of the three are
broke, if you forget and pull the TA lever back you can
feel a wobble in the lever because of the uneven
pressure on the TA throw out bearing and of course
the TA clutch does not release. This means the TA
stays in direct similar to yours. In the link the small
cover that covers the TA dry clutch is number 19. I am
not sure why but the parts list says the diesel cover
has a different number than the ones for gas engine
machines. I am not sure what the difference would be.
CNHI IH 350 clutch housing diagram

 

[Janicholson]

The best case is if it is an adjustment. (that is possible). If nothing happened, meaning it didn't slow down, when the lever is pulled back, the first inspection to do is to put the tractor in 5th gear,TA lever forward, and push it forward by hand. Rolling it even a few feet is not possible if the TA friction clutch good and in adjustment. There is a sheet metal cover on the top of the clutch TA housing that will allow you to see that clutch. If it is shredded, or so out of adjustment that it never locks up, that would be the issue. If the tractor cannot be rolled forward when in5th gear lever ahead, or pulled back, that TA clutch is not disengaging. That happens with really bad adjustment, and/or a bad TA throwout bearing. Visible in that access panel. There are many discussions on TA operation, some very recent. Some by me under my Janicholson Log-on. If the TA front clutch is bad, the tractor cannot be pushed backward in 5th, even with the clutch blocked down! Jim

 

[nashranch]

Thanks for the input guys.. I just took that 4 bolt cover off and it's ugly in there. I can see the pivot action when you pull the lever but I see alotta wear on those dogs that stick out on the pressure plate. It's really ugly in there... super oily, rusty and chitty. I don't know if my pics will do it justice

 

[nashranch]

No wonder the torque Amplifier don't work
https://youtube.com/shorts/Epd0xlYyysI?feature=share

 

[used red MN]

Well that is an unfortunate discovery. Any remains of 6 or 14 the throw out bearing in there?
If not it was likely cut out with a torch after the TO
bearing failed. As long as that direct clutch holds and
does not slip the tractor will operate in the normal
gears in direct drive the same as a non-TA model
would have.
TA direct clutch operating control linkage

 

[Janicholson]

I would probably clean that up (some) and put the lid on it. She be just a 5 speed until the master clutch needs to be replaced, then a rebuilt TA from Hycapacity is in order!! Living without what you never had is OK! Jim

 

[nashranch]

(quoted from post at 21:58:03 02/06/23) I would probably clean that up (some) and put the lid on it. She be just a 5 speed until the master clutch needs to be replaced, then a rebuilt TA from Hycapacity is in order!! Living without what you never had is OK! Jim

I might pull that cross arm out the side to give me more room to get a vacuum cleaner nozzle in there to clean out the debris. There has got to be some chunks of metal at the bottom

This post was edited by nashranch on 02/07/2023 at 06:38 am.

 

[Charlie M]

Is that the diesel you were working on? I've been following your story but don't remember seeing you got it running. If its the same tractor what did you find out was keeping it from running once you got the
original problem fixed. Last I saw you were working on the fuel pump.

 

[D Slater]

(reply to post at 19:04:42 02/06/23)

Is it just me that can't see a clutch plate left or at least no lining?

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

(quoted from post at 20:51:58 02/06/23) No wonder the torque Amplifier don't work
https://youtube.com/shorts/Epd0xlYyysI?feature=share

In the immortal words of Mythbusters Adam Savage, "There's your problem!"

Frankly I would leave it alone. Odds are it was removed to permanently disable the TA because it is "out on the low side." If you dig into it most likely you will end up replacing the entire TA.

 

[nashranch]

(quoted from post at 05:38:01 02/07/23)

(reply to post at 19:04:42 02/06/23)

o lining...just a thin disc in there

 

[nashranch]

(quoted from post at 04:13:24 02/07/23) Is that the diesel you were working on? I've been following your story but don't remember seeing you got it running. If its the same tractor what did you find out was keeping it from running once you got the
original problem fixed. Last I saw you were working on the fuel pump.

es Charlie.. same tractor. I replaced injector nozzles on oringinal injectors with freed up nozzles. Plus i don't think i was getting the injector lines bled completely. It now starts with little effort

 

[caterpillar guy]

Yup TA's are like concrete there's only 2 kind those that are out or those that are going to be. Cement that is cracked or that that is going to be cracked.

 

[rustred]

your eyes are good, i dont see it either.

 

[used red MN]

You might try running it in fourth about 3/4 throttle and
provided the brakes are working somewhere in the
above 50 percentile range of normal step down on
them hard and see if you can drag it down and nearly
kill the engine. This will at least tell you whatever is left
of the TA clutch is going to be able to transfer all the
engine power. You might consider trying a little
different version of Jims 5th gear test. Place the
tractor on a hard level surface loader raised. Engine off
place in 5th gear and block down the clutch. See if you
can push the tractor backwards by pushing at the top
of the rear tires. If you cannot place it in neutral and
try again just to verify you can actually overcome the
resistance. If it will move in neutral but not in gear this
will tell you the one way clutch has at least some ability
to lock up. Not sure how familiar you are with the
workings of a TA but the ability of the one way clutch
to lock is what actually takes over the transmission of
power when you pull the lever back and go into low
side or reduction. The one way clutch is the most
common part to fail when the term ..the TA is out.. is
used. If the one way clutch still locks it will be an
occasional menace when you are trying to shift gears.
Say you have piled some dirt with the loader and you
run the front wheels up the pile. When you push the
clutch in the tractor will be locked from rolling
backwards due to the one way clutch. In essence the
TA is turning backwards it is trying to turn through two
different gear ratios so it locks. In normal operation
with a direct clutch that will release the clutch linkage
has a connecting link that also releases the direct
clutch. When that is released it removes the second
ratio so the transmission can turn and release pressure
on the gears. Probably clear as mud. As far as pulling
that cross shaft out to clean out in there I am going to
say you are wasting your time. Unless you can look
down in there and see some large pieces that may
contact the rotating clutch assembly it is worth zero
effort. Maybe if there are large pieces I would try a
telescopic retrieval magnet first. Look down on the
bottom of the casting where you have that cover off.
You will see a hole on the bottom one on each side
about a 1/2 inch diameter. That cavity is dry, the holes
weep drains in case seals fail and start leaking oil in
there. Those let it drain out instead of fill up and oil up
the TA direct clutch.

 

[nashranch]

(quoted from post at 09:48:13 02/07/23) You might try running it in fourth about 3/4 throttle and
provided the brakes are working somewhere in the
above 50 percentile range of normal step down on
them hard and see if you can drag it down and nearly
kill the engine. This will at least tell you whatever is left
of the TA clutch is going to be able to transfer all the
engine power. You might consider trying a little
different version of Jims 5th gear test. Place the
tractor on a hard level surface loader raised. Engine off
place in 5th gear and block down the clutch. See if you
can push the tractor backwards by pushing at the top
of the rear tires. If you cannot place it in neutral and
try again just to verify you can actually overcome the
resistance. If it will move in neutral but not in gear this
will tell you the one way clutch has at least some ability
to lock up. Not sure how familiar you are with the
workings of a TA but the ability of the one way clutch
to lock is what actually takes over the transmission of
power when you pull the lever back and go into low
side or reduction. The one way clutch is the most
common part to fail when the term ..the TA is out.. is
used. If the one way clutch still locks it will be an
occasional menace when you are trying to shift gears.
Say you have piled some dirt with the loader and you
run the front wheels up the pile. When you push the
clutch in the tractor will be locked from rolling
backwards due to the one way clutch. In essence the
TA is turning backwards it is trying to turn through two
different gear ratios so it locks. In normal operation
with a direct clutch that will release the clutch linkage
has a connecting link that also releases the direct
clutch. When that is released it removes the second
ratio so the transmission can turn and release pressure
on the gears. Probably clear as mud. As far as pulling
that cross shaft out to clean out in there I am going to
say you are wasting your time. Unless you can look
down in there and see some large pieces that may
contact the rotating clutch assembly it is worth zero
effort. Maybe if there are large pieces I would try a
telescopic retrieval magnet first. Look down on the
bottom of the casting where you have that cover off.
You will see a hole on the bottom one on each side
about a 1/2 inch diameter. That cavity is dry, the holes
weep drains in case seals fail and start leaking oil in
there. Those let it drain out instead of fill up and oil up
the TA direct clutch.

I haven't found those 1/2" holes in the bottom yet but I have been pulling alot if carnage out of the bottom. It's really black and gooey in there.

Recognize any of these mangled parts?

 

[Dieseltech]

Yup, sure do. You have a MESS inside..

 

[Janicholson]

Everything between the clutch rod at the bottom, and the TA link at the top are parts of the throwout bearing, or the lever part is a piece of the TA clutch pressure plate and spring. Jim

 

[nashranch]

(quoted from post at 14:17:15 02/07/23) Everything between the clutch rod at the bottom, and the TA link at the top are parts of the throwout bearing, or the lever part is a piece of the TA clutch pressure plate and spring. Jim

I'm still digging chunks of metal out of the bottom.... gotta find those so holes.. then I spray diesel in there to clean it out some

It's hard to get a picture in a dark hole