IH 584 loader hydraulic hookups

[Massey_165]

I installed my loader from my 484 to my 584, my 484 had a double spool remote which I plan on putting on the 584. What is the best way to plumb the remote to my 584? And in the mean time how do I use the rear remotes for the loader until I get the remotes installed?

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

Connecting the loader valve without tying up the factory remote is exactly the same as it was on your 484. The only difference between the two tractors is a few HP. You might have to swap a few parts between the tractors on the hydraulic remote valve stack.

Just connect the in and out ports to one set of remotes and tie the handle back. You may have to swap the hoses at the remote once to get things working right, but it's a 50/50 shot.

 

[caterpillar guy]

I thought there was 2 different valve sued on those Doncaster tractors in some cases and they do not interchange with each other and probably the lines would not match up for bends and such either then . this is a guess from what I have seen about the 74 series which is just a model or so older than the 584 models.

 

[Massey_165]

I thought there was 2 different valve sued on those Doncaster tractors in some cases and they do not interchange with each other and probably the lines would not match up for bends and such either then . this is a guess from what I have seen about the 74 series which is just a model or so older than the 584 models.

They are different. Here’s a picture of my 584 and 484. It looks like the 484 doesn’t have a remote under neath like the 584 does.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

They are different. Here’s a picture of my 584 and 484. It looks like the 484 doesn’t have a remote under neath like the 584 does.
View attachment 126140View attachment 126141

You're right, no remote... Now I can't say if what we're looking at on the 484 is the base for the remote stack, or what's going on here. Someone more familiar with the platform will have to chime in here.

To @caterpillar guy 's point, yes there are two different valves. One was for the North American spec tractors, one for the European tractors. One has three bolts, one has four. Which is which... Can't say off the top of my head. I believe the North American version is far more common in North America, and I was betting on that.

 

[caterpillar guy]

Well one version is the same as the row crop tractors like the other bigger tractors have on 06,56,66,series models. Then the other is a completely different valve. I don't know what the difference in them is .I just know you can't stack them.You need the same valves or both to be the same. Like Barnyard said no valve which I would wonder if you could even mount a valve there like the others have there. The Ones I'm familiar with have 3 bolts.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

Well one version is the same as the row crop tractors like the other bigger tractors have on 06,56,66,series models. Then the other is a completely different valve. I don't know what the difference in them is .I just know you can't stack them.You need the same valves or both to be the same. Like Barnyard said no valve which I would wonder if you could even mount a valve there like the others have there. The Ones I'm familiar with have 3 bolts.

I went and looked it up. The 4-bolt is the North American spec, and the 3-bolt is the European spec. The 584 is a North American tractor. The 484 is... who knows what...

From the parts diagram there is a "base" for the hydraulic valves that bolts on to the tractor somehow. Of course the diagrams don't show how. I'd imagine this base connects where the hoses do in the picture of the 484 above.

 

[JimB2]

From your photos, your 584 has the IH USA, 4 bolt hydraulic valve and requires a power beyond end plate to connect an external set of loader hydraulic control valves. I suggest you look at the following link.
Link: https://www.ihpartsandequipment.com...lics/ih-574-tractor-power-beyond-housing.html

For the return hydraulic line that goes into the hydraulic drain plug under the right rear axle, see photo below with parts circled in RED

Parts list from several years ago

 

[Massey_165]

From your photos, your 584 has the IH USA, 4 bolt hydraulic valve and requires a power beyond end plate to connect an external set of loader hydraulic control valves. I suggest you look at the following link.
Link: https://www.ihpartsandequipment.com...lics/ih-574-tractor-power-beyond-housing.html

For the return hydraulic line that goes into the hydraulic drain plug under the right rear axle, see photo below with parts circled in RED

View attachment 126341

Parts list from several years ago

View attachment 126342

Thanks a lot! Do you think I may be able to pull one off a junk tractor at a salvage yard?

Also I’ve got it hooked up to the rear remotes right now, is it fine to run it off them? And do I hook both lines up to the remotes? When I’m lowering my loader the auxiliary valve lever pops up and I have to push it back down, is that normal?
View attachment IMG_1111.jpeg

 

[JimB2]

Lots of farmers ran the loader of the rear remotes, yes hook up both hydraulic lines from loader valve to the remote outlets. You want the hydraulic hoses plugged correctly to the rear outlets so when the remote hydraulic lever is locked in the UP position with that strip of metal under the lever that when you pull back on the loader lever, the loader lifts.
See that bolt with the strip of metal under the remote lever, loosen bolt, pull remote lever into UP position and move strip of metal to lock lever in place, tighten bolt.
If you disconnect the loader hydraulic lines you will have to unlock the remote lever.

On your 484, when you remove the loader, did you have to connect the two hydraulic lines that came out under the right side to keep the hydraulic system from Dead Heading and squealing the hydraulic relief valve?

 

[Massey_165]

Lots of farmers ran the loader of the rear remotes, yes hook up both hydraulic lines from loader valve to the remote outlets. You want the hydraulic hoses plugged correctly to the rear outlets so when the remote hydraulic lever is locked in the UP position with that strip of metal under the lever that when you pull back on the loader lever, the loader lifts.
See that bolt with the strip of metal under the remote lever, loosen bolt, pull remote lever into UP position and move strip of metal to lock lever in place, tighten bolt.
If you disconnect the loader hydraulic lines you will have to unlock the remote lever.

On your 484, when you remove the loader, did you have to connect the two hydraulic lines that came out under the right side to keep the hydraulic system from Dead Heading and squealing the hydraulic relief valve?

Ok I will give that a try, right now it only works if the lever is pushed in the down position.

The 484 has a double spool remote hooked to it and the loader was attached to one of those remotes. The 484 doesn’t have a remote underneath and is hooked straight to the tractor. I wanted to put the double spool remote on the 584 but then would have to put another one on the 484, so I think I’ll just leave that one on the 484 and get a power beyond plate like you suggested for the 584. Here are pictures of the 484 set up. The top line goes into the tractor, the one under it goes around and in to the tractor under the hydraulic filter.

 

[JimB2]

I wonder which hydraulic line is the pressure line, the one from under the hydraulic filter?
I have never seen a 454 without at least one hydraulic remote but I am in Canada and the IH Doncaster, UK tractors were shipped to Canada completely assembled where as in USA up until mid 1980s the tractors were shipped in crates to IH Louisville, KY, plant and final assembly was performed there adding many parts common to IH USA built 404/504 tractors.

 

[Massey_165]

I wonder which hydraulic line is the pressure line, the one from under the hydraulic filter?
I have never seen a 454 without at least one hydraulic remote but I am in Canada and the IH Doncaster, UK tractors were shipped to Canada completely assembled where as in USA up until mid 1980s the tractors were shipped in crates to IH Louisville, KY, plant and final assembly was performed there adding many parts common to IH USA built 404/504 tractors.

The pressure line is the one you see in the picture above going into the tractor, the return is the one at the filter in the picture below.

 

[Massey_165]

I wonder which hydraulic line is the pressure line, the one from under the hydraulic filter?
I have never seen a 454 without at least one hydraulic remote but I am in Canada and the IH Doncaster, UK tractors were shipped to Canada completely assembled where as in USA up until mid 1980s the tractors were shipped in crates to IH Louisville, KY, plant and final assembly was performed there adding many parts common to IH USA built 404/504 tractors.

This is the only position that the loader will work correctly on.

 

[JimB2]

Re 484, the remote valve plumbing is opposite to others I have seen in the past but it works.
Re 584, have you tried reversing the hydraulic hoses from the loader control valve to the rear remote outlets to see if the loader works properly with the remote hydraulic lever pulled UP?
Re Power Beyond end plate, I still recommend calling the people in the web link that I provided to get the proper Power Beyond plate for your tractor. IH Louisville used several different remote valves on the IH Doncaster, UK tractors that they performed final assembly on.
See photos below of the style that works and don't work. One old IH mechanic said that a the plates with two holes can be made to work by machining a plug to plug one of the holes.

 

[Massey_165]

Re 484, the remote valve plumbing is opposite to others I have seen in the past but it works.
Re 584, have you tried reversing the hydraulic hoses from the loader control valve to the rear remote outlets to see if the loader works properly with the remote hydraulic lever pulled UP?
Re Power Beyond end plate, I still recommend calling the people in the web link that I provided to get the proper Power Beyond plate for your tractor. IH Louisville used several different remote valves on the IH Doncaster, UK tractors that they performed final assembly on.
See photos below of the style that works and don't work. One old IH mechanic said that a the plates with two holes can be made to work by machining a plug to plug one of the holes.

View attachment 126501

View attachment 126504


View attachment 126503

I plan on buying that plate for the future, just want to make my loader operational for now. I locked it in the lower position and while lowering the loader it stopped and my pump got loud and smelt like it was burning up. In the up position I can swap the hoses and it works but the lever will not stay in up the position , I have to hold it up, it is also slow and very loud.

Something was mounted to my fender before, I wonder if it was external remotes. When changing or removing that plate do I need to bleed anything out or just remove it?

 

[JimB2]

Re 584, loader plumbing, from the symptoms you are describing it would indicate there is a restriction in the hydraulic flow between rear remote outlets and the loader hydraulic valves. Are you sure that the hydraulic Quick couplers that are on the loader hydraulic hoses are a match for the female Quick couplers on the 584? Back in the 1970s-1980s there were a couple different Quick coupler standards, John Deere used one and IH used another, later the ISO standard coupler was used by most tractor manufacturers.

Re, installing Power Beyond and return hydraulic line to drain plug under right rear axle, if you have a Shop Vac, you can connect the Shop Vac hose to the hydraulic filler hole behind the fuel tank and apply a vacuum and it should prevent loosing much hydraulic oil.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

Ok I will give that a try, right now it only works if the lever is pushed in the down position.

The 484 has a double spool remote hooked to it and the loader was attached to one of those remotes. The 484 doesn’t have a remote underneath and is hooked straight to the tractor. I wanted to put the double spool remote on the 584 but then would have to put another one on the 484, so I think I’ll just leave that one on the 484 and get a power beyond plate like you suggested for the 584. Here are pictures of the 484 set up. The top line goes into the tractor, the one under it goes around and in to the tractor under the hydraulic filter.
View attachment 126365View attachment 126366

Swap the hydraulic lines on the remote. That way the loader will work with the lever pulled BACK, and you can use a bungee cord to hold it there.

 

[Massey_165]

Re 584, loader plumbing, from the symptoms you are describing it would indicate there is a restriction in the hydraulic flow between rear remote outlets and the loader hydraulic valves. Are you sure that the hydraulic Quick couplers that are on the loader hydraulic hoses are a match for the female Quick couplers on the 584? Back in the 1970s-1980s there were a couple different Quick coupler standards, John Deere used one and IH used another, later the ISO standard coupler was used by most tractor manufacturers.

Re, installing Power Beyond and return hydraulic line to drain plug under right rear axle, if you have a Shop Vac, you can connect the Shop Vac hose to the hydraulic filler hole behind the fuel tank and apply a vacuum and it should prevent loosing much hydraulic oil.

I’ve seen a few of your other posts about this, if I remove the pipe to draft control and hook it up that way does it affect the draft control or anything? Any cons on doing it this way?

 

[JimB2]

Unfortunately, that connection method only works for 3 bolt remote valves that came directly from IH Doncaster, UK plant, any unit that was shipped in a crate and final assembly in IH Louisville, KY, USA has the IH USA 3 or 4 bolt remote valves that require a Power Beyond end plate on the remote valve. Sometime in the mid 1980s, IH closed the plant in Louisville and started receiving the completely assembled 85, 95, 32XX and 42XX series tractors from the IH Doncaster, UK plant. For the crate units assembled in IH Louisville, KY, USA plant, the serial number plate will have stamped on it "Made in the USA", for tractors that came via Canada or later models after Louisville closed the serial plate will say "Made in United Kingdom" or old ones will be "Made in England". When looking for parts on Caseih.com Parts by Model number, if made in USA then select:
"584 - INTERNATIONAL TRACTOR (NORTH AMERICA) (01/78 - 12/84)", if made in UK then select "584 - INTERNATIONAL DIESEL TRACTOR (EUROPE) (01/78 - 12/81)". The early International 85 series is different from the later s/n 18001 and up Case IH 585..