Installing 12 volt conversion kit HELP

[Anonymous-0]

I'm converting my 9n from 6volt to 12volt. My question is "Can I take out the original Resistor and just use the new resistor that came with the kit or must I use both resistors?" What effect would it have if i just used one resistor?

 

[souNdguy]

what effect?

lots of burned up points and coils, and many postings here asking what's wrong. possibly long term hair loss, and limited use out of your tractor.

soundguy

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 16:42:13 09/13/10) I'm converting my 9n from 6volt to 12volt. My question is "Can I take out the original Resistor and just use the new resistor that came with the kit or must I use both resistors?" What effect would it have if i just used one resistor?

It depends on whether you have a ~ 0.5 ohm coil or a ~ 2.5 ohm coil (primary side resistance). If 2.5 use only the original resistor on the 3 terminal strip/block. If 0.5, then use both the original plus the new resistor wired in series. In actuality, without knowing the resistance of your new resistor, there remains a bit of uncertainty, but not much, based on what they usually put in those kits.

 

[JMOR]

Looks like between the 2 of us we got your questions covered! :wink:

 

[Ken(Ark)]

(quoted from post at 14:07:50 09/13/10) Looks like between the 2 of us we got your questions covered! :wink:

What would happen if you used to many resistors ? no spark or weak spark ???

I could feild test it for an answer but I am sure some of the more knowledgeable guys here can easily answer the question .

The reason for the question is so I would know if it would be a case of better safe than sorry by using more resistors than not enough .

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 18:08:16 09/13/10)

(quoted from post at 14:07:50 09/13/10) Looks like between the 2 of us we got your questions covered! :wink:

What would happen if you used to many resistors ? no spark or weak spark ???

I could feild test it for an answer but I am sure some of the more knowledgeable guys here can easily answer the question .

The reason for the question is so I would know if it would be a case of better safe than sorry by using more resistors than not enough .

es, Ken, no spark or weak spark. It might run & might not or not run well or run as long as everything else is new & optimal, might be enough to fire some plugs but not others. Sometimes one can make engine run with 60PSI compression, too...may have to pull start, may not run well.

 

[L. Dean]

So whats the anser anybody got a straight one?

 

[Danny in CO]

With a front mount 9N ALWAYS use the original ballast resistor. If you keep the 6 volt coil, ALSO use the resistor from the kit. If you use a 12 volt coil, don't use the resistor from the kit.

Danny

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 21:57:50 09/13/10) So whats the anser anybody got a straight one?

hat amazes me is that a bunch of educated, experienced Ford engineers designed a system, set parameters, tested, and operated for 60 years & now you people want to know if they ran too high a current & what will happen if you reduce it!!??
He11, if you know better, why ask? Just cut it in half, 1/4, 1/8, or whatever your intelligence & experience tell you and get on with it. Whatever it is it isn't the design value. Straight answer you ask? What you will do is wrong! :roll:

 

[Ultradog MN]

It seems the very guys who could best answer your question would rather make sport amongst themselves. Nothing wrong with making sport now and then but it doesn't address your issue.
It depends on whether you are using the 6V coil or have replaced it with a 12V coil. If 6v coil you probably need to use both resisters. For 12v coil just one.
If I was converting to 12v I would gut the coil ala Hobo's plan and use a 12v roundcan coil that did not need any resistors.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 22:14:10 09/13/10) It seems the very guys who could best answer your question would rather make sport amongst themselves. Nothing wrong with making sport now and then but it doesn't address your issue.
It depends on whether you are using the 6V coil or have replaced it with a 12V coil. If 6v coil you probably need to use both resisters. For 12v coil just one.
If I was converting to 12v I would gut the coil ala Hobo's plan and use a 12v roundcan coil that did not need any resistors.

We gave the original poster good answers to both his questions....even Ken the proper range of answers for his. it wasn't until L.Dean came on with his ______ that I became annoyed. Obviously if you keep reducing current there will be a point where it won't run. Why even ask that??!! Same as when the gas tank runs dry......will it still run?? Duhhh.

 

[Ultradog MN]

Easy for you JMOR. Amd for Dell, 36 Coupe, Soundguy and others. Not easy for everyone.
I did not see an answer to his question and so tried to answer it myself. I know others here are better at fielding these questions than I.
We sometimes lose track of how inept an otherwise intelligent man can be at electrics.
His question was legitimate and deserved a legitimate answer.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 23:44:47 09/13/10) Easy for you JMOR. Amd for Dell, 36 Coupe, Soundguy and others. Not easy for everyone.
I did not see an answer to his question and so tried to answer it myself. I know others here are better at fielding these questions than I.
We sometimes lose track of how inept an otherwise intelligent man can be at electrics.
His question was legitimate and deserved a legitimate answer.

"I didn't see an answer to his question"


What?

2nd response just after SouNdguy told him the effect of just using one.

Repeated below:
JMOR
Tractor Guru


Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 6975


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:06 pm Post subject: Re: Installing 12 volt conversion kit HELP Reply to specific post Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post
Tim T. wrote:
(quoted from post at 16:42:13 09/13/10) I'm converting my 9n from 6volt to 12volt. My question is "Can I take out the original Resistor and just use the new resistor that came with the kit or must I use both resistors?" What effect would it have if i just used one resistor?

It depends on whether you have a ~ 0.5 ohm coil or a ~ 2.5 ohm coil (primary side resistance). If 2.5 use only the original resistor on the 3 terminal strip/block. If 0.5, then use both the original plus the new resistor wired in series. In actuality, without knowing the resistance of your new resistor, there remains a bit of uncertainty, but not much, based on what they usually put in those kits.

Further more, nothing wrong with your response to him, several hours later, either,.......well may discounting the editorial comment intro.

 

[Tim T.]

(original poster)
All your answers have been very helpful. My knowledge on electrical is very minimal. My problem now is. The original resistor is shot. Also for all who would like to know. I changed the coil to 12volt i have a schematic saying the old resistor should run at 1.3 ohms and together with the new resistor i should get 4.0 ohms meaning the new resistor must be around 2.3ohms(?) So what i"m taking from this forumn is that if i use the 12volt coil i go with just the old resistor? But if the old resistor is shot could i possibly just use the new resistor? also i am posting a link to the diagram that i am using to wire the tractor if anyone would like to take a look and tell me what they think.It should be the second diagram. Any and all advice is helpful. Thank you
http://www.myfordtractors.com/12volt.shtml

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 11:46:29 09/14/10) (original poster)
All your answers have been very helpful. My knowledge on electrical is very minimal. My problem now is. The original resistor is shot. Also for all who would like to know. I changed the coil to 12volt i have a schematic saying the old resistor should run at 1.3 ohms and together with the new resistor i should get 4.0 ohms meaning the new resistor must be around 2.3ohms(?) So what i"m taking from this forumn is that if i use the 12volt coil i go with just the old resistor? But if the old resistor is shot could i possibly just use the new resistor? also i am posting a link to the diagram that i am using to wire the tractor if anyone would like to take a look and tell me what they think.It should be the second diagram. Any and all advice is helpful. Thank you
http://www.myfordtractors.com/12volt.shtml

Tim, the problem that I see is that we don't actually KNOW what the value of the new resistor is and this post raised doubts as to the resistance of your new "12v" coil. You have deduced that it is around 2.2 or 2.3 ohms, I guess. If I follow your reasoning, your schematic says old is 1.3, & together (here I don't know whether 'together' means 2 resistors OR 2 resistors plus the coil??) with new should be 4.
If 'together' means 2 resistors, then 4-1.3 =2.7. If 'together' means 2 resistors plus coil, then 4-1.3-X. The X is coil resistance, which I also call an uncertainty at this point....probably 2.5, but maybe 0.5 to 1.5 range??? So, 4-1.3-2.5=0.2 OR 4-1.3-0.5=2.2 We need to fill in the blanks......i.e., what is actual coil resistance? What is new resistor value?
Also, what is source of the schematic? Did it come boxed with the coil & new resistor?

 

[Greg 2N (TX)]

What is the resistance of your +12V coil?

If it is 3 ohms, no resistor is needed.

If it is less than 3 ohms, then add a resistor to make a total of 3 ohms including the coil.

Simple eh?

Greg

 

[Tim T.]

Well i just put my ohm meter on to me coil and it read 2.8

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 14:01:50 09/14/10) Well i just put my ohm meter on to me coil and it read 2.8

2.8 meas probably means it is 2.5
hold meter leads together & see if you read zero.
measure your new resistor.

 

[Tim T.]

well i zeroed it out put the leads on the new resistor and it read 3.4.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 14:27:34 09/14/10) well i zeroed it out put the leads on the new resistor and it read 3.4.

ou can't successfully run that resistor with that coil. Go out and get the Ford 12250 OEM resistor...run it with your coil & be happy.

 

[Tim T.]

Thank you.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 14:44:14 09/14/10) Thank you.

ou are more than welcome.

 

[Devious]

HI JMOR Let me say I envy your intelligence about these electrical systems a great deal but most of the time I am left scratching my head at your involved answers to these repeated questions on the same subject matter. Like Ultradog says and I agree with him , some, actually a lot of us are asking because we are ignorant on the subject and it seems that you are put upon by someone as ignorant as I posting such a SIMPLE problem. Again I wish I were smart like you but I AIN T and never will be on this subject but shooting an approach in a DC-6 full of cargo in a driving monsoon into Jakarta Indonisia weighing over 102,000 pounds and the visibilty is practically nil, If it were YOU and I with the same intelligence level driving the old 4 engine bird, I WILL CHOOSE MY SMARTS OVER YOURS unless you have the same abilities as I do. I am VERY intelligent when it comes to flying airplanes in very nice conditions but also when all hell breaks loose. I am sure that some others here on the forum have skills other than tractor fixing also. We are all different my friend. If you consider me and others as underlings because you are more educated in electronics etc then maybe a turn in people to people handling would be in order. I marvel at your pix and drawings etc but it seems that 36Coupe is rubbing off on you to some degree. That would be sad, because you are really a good source of info for we the unknowing, but ego and gotcha stuff is just too far out of the box sometimes. I hope you get where I am coming from as a positive thought or two instead of a gouge to start bickering again about some thing that will not solve anything. (Just tellum what resistor to take out and which one to put in and see if that fixes it, and if that don t do it come back. A long lecture on theory and lots of numbers is mind boggling to me and I suspect others. You remember KISS Keep it simple stupid. It works a lot of the time) Keep helping us tho even if you can t mellow out, as we DO need your expertice. DEVIOUS

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 15:46:26 09/14/10) HI JMOR Let me say I envy your intelligence about these electrical systems a great deal but most of the time I am left scratching my head at your involved answers to these repeated questions on the same subject matter. Like Ultradog says and I agree with him , some, actually a lot of us are asking because we are ignorant on the subject and it seems that you are put upon by someone as ignorant as I posting such a SIMPLE problem. Again I wish I were smart like you but I AIN T and never will be on this subject but shooting an approach in a DC-6 full of cargo in a driving monsoon into Jakarta Indonisia weighing over 102,000 pounds and the visibilty is practically nil, If it were YOU and I with the same intelligence level driving the old 4 engine bird, I WILL CHOOSE MY SMARTS OVER YOURS unless you have the same abilities as I do. I am VERY intelligent when it comes to flying airplanes in very nice conditions but also when all hell breaks loose. I am sure that some others here on the forum have skills other than tractor fixing also. We are all different my friend. If you consider me and others as underlings because you are more educated in electronics etc then maybe a turn in people to people handling would be in order. I marvel at your pix and drawings etc but it seems that 36Coupe is rubbing off on you to some degree. That would be sad, because you are really a good source of info for we the unknowing, but ego and gotcha stuff is just too far out of the box sometimes. I hope you get where I am coming from as a positive thought or two instead of a gouge to start bickering again about some thing that will not solve anything. (Just tellum what resistor to take out and which one to put in and see if that fixes it, and if that don t do it come back. A long lecture on theory and lots of numbers is mind boggling to me and I suspect others. You remember KISS Keep it simple stupid. It works a lot of the time) Keep helping us tho even if you can t mellow out, as we DO need your expertice. DEVIOUS

f they tell me enough to know what they have up front, then a simple answer could come forth, but sometimes it takes a lot of tooth pulling to get adequate info to formulate a good answer. You are the one coming up with the "it seems that you are put upon by someone as ignorant as I posting such a SIMPLE problem.." and the "If you consider me and others as underlings ..." and etc. The perception is in your mind. I will & do help ANYone. I love to teach. "Put upon?" if that were the case I wouldn't be here! I recently drove 140 miles to help fix a man's tractor just because he just couldn't seem to make it happen. I didn't know him other than by the forum. Still haven't met him. He wasn't home when I got there. I fixed it, mowed a bit to check it out and left. Put upon my a$$! You don't even begin to know me & for sure not enough to judge me, my friend. I like to help a fellow understand enough that next time he may be able to fix something himself & take pride in the accomplishment. LEARNING isn't simple. If someone doesn't want to learn, then no questions are necessary....just substitute parts until it works or hire someone else to.
Now, on the other hand, I do not sit idle and let incorrect information be propagated. To do so would be a disservice to all who may read it now or in the archives in the future. So, if you are looking for a lashing, just put crap out there and take the ONE more step of defending the crap. There are many things that people KNOW to be true that aren't. They have a hard time losing those long held 'truths'. Just show me the facts, supporting evidence, etc. Devious, maybe you would like it better if I were to skip the educating, teaching, explaining and just put a simple "B.S." or a "DISCOUNT THIS POST" label on some postings. Be happy.

 

[Devious]

I have learned my lesson JMOR You are inflexible and I will not attempt any further discourse with you. You have a closed mind when it concerns those of us not as educated as you. You twisted my post to you to meet what you wanted it to say , not what it said. Remember we all rot at approximately the same rate in the dirt. Have a good life. No reply needed or asked for. Devious

 

[JMOR]

Well, Devious, I just went back thru the last 6 months of your post to confirm what I thought I remembered. Mostly you come here to either ask the same questions repeatedly, preach, lecture, or anything but ask a specific question about fixing a current/existing tractor problem of your own or to tell someone how to fix their problem. As far as I know there is no prohibition on those ramblings (here I am) & I don't own or run these boards so carry on, but why hinder those of us who are here to try and help those who wish to learn & to fix whatever they need to fix? I'm perfectly happy to keep it purely technical, if only the hecklers would leave off.

 

[Joe N E Texas]

I thought the men gave some good clear answers. I don't understand this electrical stuff but I read all these threads hoping I can pick up enough to get me by. Best of all it is FREE they can help a man without calling him a Dufus. I thank you who spend so much of your time trying to help .

 

[Devious]

I am truly chagrined and remorseful. BUT I will watch for your professorial meanderings for us poorly educated earthlings that you can teach and make whole concerning the electronics on a 60 yr old tractor. And I do thank you for driving those miles to help that fellow make his tractor run. Don t know that I would have done that but then you never know, it might have been some thing like a flat front tire that could have taken off and gotten fixed for him but surely not much more. Take care Devious

 

[JMOR]

Thank you Joe, I appreciate it and am confident that the other helpers do to.

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 16:47:01 09/14/10) I have learned my lesson JMOR You are inflexible and I will not attempt any further discourse with you. You have a closed mind when it concerns those of us not as educated as you. You twisted my post to you to meet what you wanted it to say , not what it said. Remember we all rot at approximately the same rate in the dirt. Have a good life. No reply needed or asked for. Devious

I notice that despite your disagreements over style both of you still remain civil in your exchanges :idea:

Electricity seems to be one of those subjects that is very hard for some folks to get their head around - I suspect it's the reliance on all the math. Personally I like detailed mathematical explanations - you get my attention when I hear phrases like " varies inversely with the square of the ..." or similar explanations. For others it causes their eyes to glaze over.

But regardless of how you like your learning everybody loses when questions are presented with no factual information to permit any kind of reasonable answer. And repeated failed efforts to extract that information with followup discussion can be very frustrating and make one a tad irritable over time.

JMOR likes to teach - it's obvious - he likes to pass on the knowledge he's been given to others and he will go out of his way to do that. Everything I've seen indicates not only a willingness but a desire to share his knowledge and help folks learn. But he's a bit like my first professional mentor - a women coworker who at the time was twice my 20 years. I learned early on that if you asked her a technical question you'd get a terse,, reliable, no frills answer. Come back the next day and ask her a related question slightly different from the first and she would elaborate on the details. Come back and ask her the [u:d19cf476ff]same[/u:d19cf476ff] question a second time and you would get "the look". She had a memory like an elephant and I do believe today - 40 years later - if I asked her a question she had answered for me in the past I'd be getting that look :!: JMOR has far more patience than she did and will go a lot longer and repeat his answer multiple times before giving you "the look". But everybody gets worn down by repeatedly banging their head against the same wall.

TOH

 

[36 Coupe]

You finally caught on to the jmor method of twisting statments.

 

[Dunk]

It amazes me at how long it is taking some of you to catch on to someone with a screen name of Devious.

 

[Hobo,NC]

Cuzz chill out,,,, not all of us soak up this chit the first go round....



I wish every thang could be made simple,,, but it can not happen with out students that can take the bits and pieces and put it to work... will'n to accepted the scrapes and bruises...

This is the internet,,, sooner are later someone will come along and tell ya zackly what you want to hear right are wrong are to suit your needs...

I think you figger the man wrong,,, he's just as curious as most of the rest of us and actually more,,,, He's not satisfied with a pattern answer (like a lot of folks are)...

Talk about a myth buster,,, he's sets rite on top of the hill,,, goes the extra mile to chiffer this chit out...

Info is useless unless you apply it,,, you could tell me every thing you know about a plane ,,, The info would be useless to me,,, but someone would get something out of it,,, so I recon all is not lost....

You are on yer on,,, probably lost the best helper out their,,, good luck...

BTW count me in also I don't need the challenge...