International B275 Glow Plug Resistors Element.

[Clem16]

From Northern Canada here.
We just rebuilt an International B275, motor.

I put brand new glow plugs in, brand new resistor indicator on the dash, and all new heavy wiring to provide the power to the plugs.

It’s the “old style” where if one plug burns out, none work. I actually prefer to keep it as stock and standard as possible. It had the old style resistor indicator in it, then we upgraded that to the round style listed on here as a parts upgrade.

My question is, on the dash where the resistor indicator is, when you screw off the little tin protector, there’s an element in there that glows when hen you pull the switch.

Right now, it’s working fine, but I noticed there’s set screws that let you replace the element in the indicator.
I’m looking for a place where I can source or instructions on how I’d make more indicators.
Instead of having to buy and replace the whole thing in the dash, swapping the element would be a field fix in 10 min. With a couple spares and a screwdriver in the toolbox.

Those glow plugs, and systems on the B275 are highly dependent on the operator knowing how to properly use them. If they hold the power switch too long, the element will burn out and or the plugs in the block will burn out.
This requires a specific technique to use when starting the motor. One can’t just hold the switch down, one has to basically “ride the edge” by observing the colour of the indicator and listening to the motor. If it sounds like the motor is going to quit, hit the switch and warm up the cylinders some more. Diesel engines need this to warm up. So while it’s definitely possible to do a cold start, I prefer to always use the glow plugs to give it a kick start.
I refuse to allow ANY cans of starting fluid anywhere near my engine. So having the glow plugs system working and fully operational with backup parts available is highly important to me.

I will be using this tractor for cultivating the garden and working on a small section of ground growing some wheat in a year or so.

Just used it today to plow the road with snow. Fired up in sub zero conditions after having been plugged in with a circulation heater for less than an hour.

 

[Janicholson]

Before it gets used much. measure its resistance in ohms. It will take a good meter to measure small resistances. Also you could measure the wire diameter. It is likely made from Nichrome wire. (what toasters have that glows). Winding your own is possible. The link is something I found My searching for Nichrome resistor wire. There were more. Jim

found this!!!

 

[Clem16]

Ah!
Same wire that’s used in VAPE smoking.

I may actually have a couple rolls of different wire diameters. Those look like wrapped wire coils.

The resistors in the dash looks like a solid piece of wire. It probably is Nichrome, so I may have to do some experimentation.

I may order a whole new resistor so I have a backup stock before they are no longer available (and I actually have another whole identical tractor that also needs a full rebuild) so the parts won’t go to waste.

So - I may need to use a caliper to measure the wire diameter then see if I can source a whole roll of that diameter wire.

 

[wore out]

Ah!
Same wire that’s used in VAPE smoking.

I may actually have a couple rolls of different wire diameters. Those look like wrapped wire coils.

The resistors in the dash looks like a solid piece of wire. It probably is Nichrome, so I may have to do some experimentation.

I may order a whole new resistor so I have a backup stock before they are no longer available (and I actually have another whole identical tractor that also needs a full rebuild) so the parts won’t go to waste.

So - I may need to use a caliper to measure the wire diameter then see if I can source a whole roll of that diameter wire.

Not being critical of your choices, but for a working tractor it would have been a LOT less detailed to simply install a set of modern Duraterms or equivalent. I did that to my "424" quite a few years ago and have never regretted getting rid of that overly complicated and archaic mess.

 

[Mike(NEOhio)]

I used to have a 3414, industrial version of the same series. I remember it said to hold the button till the indicator glowed before hitting the starter. I was trying to start it with jumper cables off my Scout. The plugs didn't work when we got it used and I didn't know about the resistor so I clamped the cable right to the wire on the first plug. WOW, did that pull down the engine.....for a few seconds till one of the plugs burned out.

 

[Clem16]

Not being critical of your choices, but for a working tractor it would have been a LOT less detailed to simply install a set of modern Duraterms or equivalent. I did that to my "424" quite a few years ago and have never regretted getting rid of that overly complicated and archaic mess.

Totally understand.
It’s a “working tractor”, but it’s also my hobby project baby tractor. So yes, it’s kinda archaic but it’s also kinda a neat setup just to have. If I strip out how it was designed, then it’s not much different from buying a new tractor.
I consider it a working tractor because there’s no sense having something to be a floor room princess that can’t actually be used. I’d rather use it and fix and repair and really get to know the tractor by using it, the way it was designed.
It’s not our only tractor on our farm, we e got a whole fence line of them, and we simply pick the best tractor for the job, but having options means not over working or trying to do something with it it was not designed to do.

It’s fun to operate the older equipment, but if I’m doing some serious work, I can go to bigger newer more modern equipment with enclosed cabs etc.

So for cultivating the garden in the summer, or light field use, or staging the snow plow in the winter, it gets use. But not use to the point where it’s my only option.
We’ve got the 518 Skidder, D7 Cat, 414 JD skidder, Massey Ferguson, Several Case tractors, multiple small Ford 9n’s some 8ns some litre Fergusons.

Dads been collecting for 50 years. So now it’s just fix n use and play around with him in retirement. So keeping things stock is a way to enjoy rebuilding and having a good source of documentation on systems the way they were designed. And if we decide to change something, that’s fun too. We might change the glow plug system someday, never saying never. It’s just the way it is now.

Hope that makes sense. All good

 

[Clem16]

I used to have a 3414, industrial version of the same series. I remember it said to hold the button till the indicator glowed before hitting the starter. I was trying to start it with jumper cables off my Scout. The plugs didn't work when we got it used and I didn't know about the resistor so I clamped the cable right to the wire on the first plug. WOW, did that pull down the engine.....for a few seconds till one of the plugs burned out.

Haha yeah! We have a 414 from the same series too. (We collect a ton of stuff, it’s like a museum here on the farm)

When the systems working, it actually works well, it’s GOT to have a live battery in it tho. And that battery HAS to stay charged.

It takes a ton of juice to run those glow plugs, so I found that once the cylinders are warmed up enough for it to run barely without having to hold the starter on, it takes less power to keep it going by periodically pulling the button for powering the glow plugs than it does to roll it over with the starter.

So the trick I use to kinda think about how to operate the plugs, is treat it like one would use a can of starter fluid, short bursts, until the motor rpm comes up and it can sustain itself.

The staring procedure is a bit different than one would generally be used to, so I don’t let anyone near my tractor unless they’ve had “the talk” - I’m worried about my bro not paying attention jumping on and just holding down that glow plug lever till it burns out…

Which is why I’m preemptively looking for replacements, it’s not going to be an IF it happens, it’s going to be a WHEN it happens… if ya know what I mean…

 

[Phillip Tibbetts]

Not being critical of your choices, but for a working tractor it would have been a LOT less detailed to simply install a set of modern Duraterms or equivalent. I did Can't imagine messingwith thos antiquated that to my "424" quite a few years ago and have never regretted getting rid of that overly complicated and archaic mess.

Can't imagine messing with those antiquated glow plugs. I switched my 364 years ago and it is like a totally different tractor. As I remember it was less than $75 for everything to convert including the pencil type glow plugs.

 

[Mike(NEOhio)]

Haha yeah! We have a 414 from the same series too. (We collect a ton of stuff, it’s like a museum here on the farm)

When the systems working, it actually works well, it’s GOT to have a live battery in it tho. And that battery HAS to stay charged.

It takes a ton of juice to run those glow plugs, so I found that once the cylinders are warmed up enough for it to run barely without having to hold the starter on, it takes less power to keep it going by periodically pulling the button for powering the glow plugs than it does to roll it over with the starter.

So the trick I use to kinda think about how to operate the plugs, is treat it like one would use a can of starter fluid, short bursts, until the motor rpm comes up and it can sustain itself.

The staring procedure is a bit different than one would generally be used to, so I don’t let anyone near my tractor unless they’ve had “the talk” - I’m worried about my bro not paying attention jumping on and just holding down that glow plug lever till it burns out…

Which is why I’m preemptively looking for replacements, it’s not going to be an IF it happens, it’s going to be a WHEN it happens… if ya know what I mean…

Your trick sounds about right. Manual says to use more glow plug and less starter as it's easier on the battery. Ether didn't help much. It ignites on compression and cranking stops cold. Once I pulled glow plugs and cranked it to clear the ether. I held a match to the opening and it sounded like a shotgun blast.

 

[JimB2]

You have a very early B275 with the inline injection pump with the vacuum governor control.
I noticed someone has installed the new style starter from a 424 or 434 and an alternator, so I assume it is now a -VE ground system.
Re Glow plugs, when they are working correctly with a VOM with -VE lead on battery ground and +VE lead on the Black wire on #4 Glow plug, when the Glow Plug switch is activated, the VOM should read approximately +6V depending on the battery voltage and CCA.
IIRC the Champion C28 Glow plugs were about 1.8 Ohms cold and the Bosh version were about 2.0 Ohms, so using Ohms law the resistance of the Glow Plug Indicator Resistor would be between 7.2 to 8.0 Ohms. Can't say as I every measured the Resistor only checked for Open but have measured the Glow Plugs. Lots of experience with a B414D, 434 and 384 in the cold in Eastern Ontario.

 

[Radicle]

I have a 364. we had replaced the plugs but not the wiring. been using ether, works OK if we get it right.

a couple questions:

Can I replace the nichrome with heavy wire? A friend of a friend recommended 10 gauge but if it has resistor wire on it then i would want to replace with the same. Not so worried about contact, just flow of current.

Is the indicator light itself the resistor? In my wiring diagram, the wires between the indicator light and the keyswitch are labeled "indicator resistor" but I wasn't sure if that meant the wires are nichrome or that the indicator light is the resistor (nichrome inside)

I haven't gotten into it yet. just picking it up where we left off at the end of the season and where we left things with my angel tractor mechanic who does all the heavy lifting for us beyond the basics. he had replaced the plugs and was stumped when the system still didn't work, not realizing it was resistor wire which for some reasin doesn't seem to be conducting the current. the tractor sat in a field with a tarp over it for years before we got it...