JD 60 idler gear extra lubrication fix complete with pic

[Fred from MO]

Thanks to the help from the folks on this board I have completed my mod to the ol 60. After burning up the bushings on the idler gear that goes between the hydraulic pump and the governor housing (aparently a common problem due to the gear only recieving the splash lubrication carried up by the gears) I added a direct shot of oil by drilling and tapping into the end of the governor housing where the idler shaft resides. The idler shaft is hollow and has a hole in the end toward the middle of the tractor. I had to remove the flywheel, hydraulic pump and the sucktion and pressure lines to the pump to remove the burned up gear/shaft. The shaft was gaulded bad and would only come out of the housing 3/4 of the way before it got stuck. So I stuffed a bunch of rags in the governor housing to catch the thrust washers off the gear and tapped up the opening where the hydraulic pump sat and used a grinder to grind the shaft off. Then I pushed the stub part of the shaft into the governor housing and then removed the shaft and gear, but somehow managed to drop one thrust washer down into the engine. So Then I had to remove the engine cover and fish it out with a flex magnet. To drill I drilled from the flywheel side through the governor housing using a Q size dril again with rags stuffed in there to pick up any shavings from drilling. I then tapped from the outside of the governor housing using a 1/8 taper pipe tap. I then cut into the 3/8 steel line that comes up from the engine and goes to the oil pressure gage on the dash, and the auto fuel shut off. I used a 1/4 compression T and compression fittings along with a 12" 3/8 steel brake line from an auto parts store. You could get by with a shorter piece of brake line but this is all my store had. While the pump was off I replaced the seal between the pump shaft and the pump engagement gear and all the other o-rings and gaskets that were really old for good measure. Everything works good and hopefully this modification will help the idler gear/bushing and shaft from ever having lack of lube problems. I did notice a drop in pressure at the oil pressure gage from T'ing off of it. I may increase the oil pressure some day just a little to make myself feel better. I have a slight leak of hydraulic oil around the hydraulic pump bolts for some reason. These bolts are not copper washer sealed. They just used lock washers. I did use permatex on the pump halfs on re-assembly. Hope this helps anyone who runs into this problem in the future. Thanks for the advice!

 

[fixerupper]

Good job. I can almost guarantee that idler won't go out again for the rest of our lives and a lot longer. Jim

 

[buickanddeere]

Looks neat and tidy.

 

[55 50 Ron]

I may be all wrong on this, but "oil pressure" to the oil pressure gauge is really air pressure, isn't it? There would be air in the line and it just compresses from oil being forced in from the pump end, but that oil couldn't get all the way to the gauge, unless the gauge leaked air. Seems that installing this "tap off" from the pressure gauge line would drastically lower the reading of the gauge because now the actual oil has a new (basically unrestricted) path to follow when it lubricates inside the governor housing.

 

[wilamayb]

I can appreciate the engineering, but if you didnt install an orfice in the fitting to the new port can you keep enough oil pressure on that circuit to operate the pressure shut-off?

 

[wilamayb]

It would only be air if air was in the line and there was nowhere for it to go. In this case there is a port for oil/air to escape. There still could be air between this port and the gauge.

 

[Fred from MO]

Nah, it works fine. Oil pressure opens up the rubber valve that lets the gas flow to the carb bowl. I have not had a problem with a lack of fuel.

 

[Fred from MO]

No oil feeds all the way up to the gage. I have an old gage and a little engine oil leaks past somewhere in the gage to where I can see a bit. Someday when the gage goes I will replace it for now it looks somewhat like an oil filled gage-LOL!!

 

[Machinery-Man]

I agree with some of the others, wouldn't this be lowering the overall pump pressure. The gauge and shut off are dead receivers of the pressure, while this would be releasing pressure. Maybe you have enough overall pressure where this may not matter. I suppose the main bearing and cam bearing are releasing direct pressure also and this one more small item wouldn't matter as long as you didn't get a false reading on the guage and the gas release mechanism still functions. Good to see good ole American engineering at work.....

 

[F-I-T]

You have to consider that the oil pump is already pushing more than half of its delivery out the relief valve and back to the sump, so this added "leak" just means that the relief valve only bypasses 51% of the flow instead of say 53%. Plenty of volume there from a '60' oil pump.

Nice job Fred.

 

[55 50 Ron]

Then why don't we see oil splattered on the engine or wherever this oil/air port is?

 

[55 50 Ron]

Exactly where is this oil/air port?

 

[55 50 Ron]

Exactly where is this oil/air port?

 

[F-I-T]

(quoted from post at 15:46:53 11/04/09) Exactly where is this oil/air port?

?!?...the air was pushed out around the pump shaft with the oil coming behind it and the oil drained to the sump, and on, and on, and on. He said that there would only be air in the line if it could not escape, i.e. be displaced. Such is the case at the point from the tap-in point to the gauge, but below his tap-in, that line quickly filled with flowing oil which displaced the air ahead of it.

 

[55 50 Ron]

I understand that, but my real point is that the oil pressure gauge itself still sees only air pressure otherwise there would be oil all over the tractor if there was an air escape hole at the gauge.

 

[F-I-T]

(quoted from post at 16:01:16 11/04/09) I understand that, but my real point is that the oil pressure gauge itself still sees only air pressure otherwise there would be oil all over the tractor if there was an air escape hole at the gauge.

The gauge sees "pressure" whether it is oil only (some industrial gauges have a port that you released the air out of because trapped humidity in there can cause gauge corrosion (generally on lab grade gauges), or the air that is trapped above the oil. The oil compresses the air to a point of volumetric equilibrium so that two "fluids" have the same force applied. I might not be understanding, sorry if that's the case.

See, the unrestricted line that was tapped in is really an orifice, an orifice the size of the tubing, which is not large enough to tax the available volume of the oil pump output, AND the next orifice that is created in the small clearance between the shaft the bushings. The pipe, IMHO, is more than adequate to supply this new "leak" at the shaft/bushing clearance, and since the gauge does not leak, it reads the system dead end pressure, just as before.

 

[wilamayb]

Cause it's going into the governor housing. I'm afraid there are some fundamentals that you are missing here.

 

[55 50 Ron]

It certainly is sometimes hard to understand one another on these forums.

As before I fully understand what you say happens for the oil going out the "tap" to the governor housing and I agree.

But from that tap point on up to the oil pressure gauge, there has to be air under pressure in that line that activates the oil pressure gauge. If that air could slowly escape, oil could eventually escape too and cause a mess and slowly deplete the crankcase supply.

 

[fixerupper]

Most of us have seen an after market oil gauge plumbed with plastic line. And we have seen the air bubbles or spaces in the line heading up toward the gauge when the engine is started up, and going back down the line after the engine is shut off. It does this no matter if the engine is started for the first time or the 10,000th time. The air is there and it doesn't bother anything.

After I plumbed oil to the idler on the 630 probably 25 years ago or so, the pressure gauge read a little lower so I cranked the pressure up a bit to get the gauge back up to where it was before. It hasn't changed since then and I'm guessing there's 5000 more hours on it now than it had then. Jim

 

[F-I-T]

...
But from that tap point on up to the oil pressure gauge, there has to be air under pressure in that line that activates the oil pressure gauge. If that air could slowly escape, oil could eventually escape too and cause a mess and slowly deplete the crankcase supply.(reply to post at 18:17:01 11/04/09)

But it does not matter if it has air in the gauge's Bourdon tube or oil, right? And yes, if the gauge leaks, oil comes out because the gauge is no longer sealing the blind end of a pressurized oil line, no different than if a small oil gallery plug fell out. Any oil line rupture would cause the same outcome. I must be confused. There would be quite a puddle if you had a leak go long enough to deplete the entire contents of a '60' crankcase.

 

[55 50 Ron]

F-I-T,

That's my point. I did exaggerate on the crankcase depletion!! Sorry for be-laboring the topic.

Ron

 

[F-I-T]

(quoted from post at 10:11:57 11/05/09) F-I-T,

That's my point. I did exaggerate on the crankcase depletion!! Sorry for be-laboring the topic.

Ron

Oh. Ok. If you have ever had an old leaky gauge, where the face filled with oil, and then slowly dripped down the dash, you know how just a little oil can make a big mess.

 

[55 50 Ron]

I'm NOT missing any fundamentals. As usual, it's hard to understand each other with just words. We all have valid points, but words don't always convey them very well!!

 

[Fred from MO]

Wow! HA! seems like I started a thread on the fundamentals of fluids etc. Sorry to start such controversy! I was just trying to show my appreciation to the fellows thta helped me out with the previous posts and show them that it worked fine!!. For the record :
1. The tractor works fine with this modification
2. My old oil pressure gage leaks a little oil and someday I will replace the gage.
3. I may also increase the oil pressure slightly by adjusting the pressure internally on the tractor so the gage reads better and keeps me mentally happy
4. I have fuel going to my carb.

I would be happy to answer any other questions- in case another fella has the same issue I had down the road and wants to correct future problems. Makes me wonder why old deere didn't do this 60 years ago when they made them new? I can't see that this would have added much cost to the manufacturing process on an assembly line.

 

[PJH]

Nice job, Fred. I worried about a drop in oil pressure when I did my 630. It was very slight. I dialed it up a little for peace of mind also. I used copper line on mine, and planned to crimp it slightly if the pressure drop was excessive. Wasn't necessary. Shaft runs cool now.

Paul

 

[wilamayb]

There must not have been enough failures to repair the problem since the 620/630 was not oiled additionally either.

There was external oil lines installed on the early H tractor to oil the governor. This was actually a field improvement or PIP as is called by Deere in modern terms.