JD M Clutch Grinding

[Jim in LA]

Hey all,

I inherited a JD M from my dad and the clutch has some issue going on. It'll grind when disengaged 90% of the time. Sometimes it'll act right.

I've adjusted the clutch pedal for 1.5" free travel. That didn't help. Figured I needed to get in to it and see what's going on, so I split the tractor. I don't have any experience with tractor repair etc but got the service manual to know exactly what it is I am looking at. From what I've read online the issue may be the throw out bearing. Any ideas or suggestions looking at my pics? If I can get away with just replacing the bearing that'd be great. A full kit that I was looking at runs about $320 (https://www.external_link/JDS3013-Clutch-Kit-Engine-).

By the way, if I am replacing the throw out bearing how do I pull the dang thing off and press a new one on?

$180 for clutch kit from this site.

 

[wore out]

$180 for clutch kit from this site.

The lined plate looks pretty good ("slots" in facings are still distinct), I'm not so sure it needs a "clutch kit" at this point.

 

[showcrop]

I agree with the bad release bearing and pilot bushing and good clutch disc, but I see a problem with the flywheel surface. I doesn't look like a normal wear pattern

 

[used red MN]

I agree with the bad release bearing and pilot bushing and good clutch disc, but I see a problem with the flywheel surface. I doesn't look like a normal wear pattern

In my opinion the fw surface would need a better picture and a known state of cleanliness for evaluation. I don’t see anything alarming. I think the radial lines towards the outer edge are dust from the disintegration of the pilot bearing. My guess is the photo was taken right after the clutch was taken off.

OP, you will need a clutch plate alignment tool for reassembly.

 

[Fixingfarmer]

which tool would he need for an m? It wouldn’t happen to be the same as the later new generation pto shaft? It and it’s ancestors would be the only 2 cylinders that would need it. It does appear like there’s a good taper on the shaft so it shouldn’t be a problem hitting the pilot bearing if he has trouble he can engage the pto and spin it a bit transmission neutral and it should go.

 

[matttractor]

which tool would he need for an m? It wouldn’t happen to be the same as the later new generation pto shaft? It and it’s ancestors would be the only 2 cylinders that would need it. It does appear like there’s a good taper on the shaft so it shouldn’t be a problem hitting the pilot bearing if he has trouble he can engage the pto and spin it a bit transmission neutral and it should go.

M611T according to this service manual. If I’m understanding correctly then I will need to replace with the older style oilite bushing unless I am putting in a replacement propeller shaft then I could do the newer ball bearing.

Edit: for clutch alignment there are two tools size depending

 

[used red MN]

which tool would he need for an m? It wouldn’t happen to be the same as the later new generation pto shaft? It and its ancestors would be the only 2 cylinders that would need it. It does appear like there’s a good taper on the shaft so it shouldn’t be a problem hitting the pilot bearing if he has trouble he can engage the pto and spin it a bit transmission neutral and it should go.

They have molded plastic stub tools that duplicate the transmission input shaft.
YT alignment stub
There are also universal alignment tools that can be his or miss. I don’t think it is the same as a new Gen tractor.

 

[Janicholson]

M611T according to this service manual. If I’m understanding correctly then I will need to replace with the older style oilite bushing unless I am putting in a replacement propeller shaft then I could do the newer ball bearing.

The Shaft is called a Clutch Shaft (in the industry) but the ball bearing needs a smaller snout on the shaft to fit the bearing. The new bearing should be heated in melted chassis grease (outside and very carefully in a small container, no fried turkey experiments) so it is saturated with grease. The hole should have grease in it toward the back so the bushing stays good for the life of the clutch. Not to excess, but enough to assure lube without squirting out into the clutch plate. I would polish the snout with 600 grit paper (round and round, not in and out). Jim

 

[used red MN]

The Shaft is called a Clutch Shaft (in the industry) but the ball bearing needs a smaller snout on the shaft to fit the bearing. The new bearing should be heated in melted chassis grease (outside and very carefully in a small container, no fried turkey experiments) so it is saturated with grease. The hole should have grease in it toward the back so the bushing stays good for the life of the clutch. Not to excess, but enough to assure lube without squirting out into the clutch plate. I would polish the snout with 600 grit paper (round and round, not in and out). Jim

Jim, for whatever reason Deere actually calls it a propeller shaft. Look at his pictures of the manual.

OP, Yes, it looks like you will need the original style bushing. The bushing from Deere is right at $60! It may be worth your while to contact the folks in this link. Vintage Tractor parts
It looks like they only corespond by email. They show a bushing for $10.

 

[matttractor]

Jim, for whatever reason Deere actually calls it a propeller shaft. Look at his pictures of the manual.

OP, Yes, it looks like you will need the original style bushing. The bushing from Deere is right at $60! It may be worth your while to contact the folks in this link. Vintage Tractor parts
It looks like they only corespond by email. They show a bushing for $10.

what did you search to find the bushing? I can’t seem to locate. And your link doesn’t work.

 

[used red MN]

what did you search to find the bushing? I can’t seem to locate. And your link doesn’t work.

Sorry about that link. I searched by the number AM1597T that woreout gave in reply 13. Try searching “Rusty Acres Ranch” I was a bit leery of the site, I think it is a legitimate mom and pop deal, but may have went out of business. The only way to find out is to email them. If paying $60 to Deere for the bearing is no big deal to you than do that and skip all the “circus acts” sweeping in the corners of the web. When big name mfgs. ask a ridiculous price for a simple part I usually try everything in my power to avoid forking over the cash to them. I think there had been someone mentioned on here that sells only parts for the JD M models. I don’t know the name I may also have the model confused it may be the H. If you want to go there you might try posting this on the JD forum with that part number asking if there may be an alternative source. Also link this post to it if you do that.

 

[matttractor]

Flywheel came off with relative ease. Seems the back OD opening for bushing is chipped away. I would think it'd be ok? Lots of residue all over from the bushing.

For removal of the old bushing I'm assuming I could just find something that matches the OD of the bushing and tap it out from the back. Inserting a new bushing (when I can find one...) I guess I can just do the reverse of that and gently tap it in to the opening. Service manual calls for a M611T driver specialty tool. Can't find that.

With the flywheel off I'm wondering what the grease retainer looks like and what am I exactly supposed to fill halfway with bearing grease.

 

[Roger in Iowa]

Haven’t had much time to dig in to it. May get the flywheel off today and the clutch assembly in the bell housing.

I tested the throw out bearing. It gives resistance when rotating l. If I apply pressure and turn it then it rotates more freely and felt smooth and quiet.

Pulled the pressure plate and clutch disk. Disk doesn’t seem worn down to the rivets and no obvious damage to it. There are some gold flakes that I’m not quite sure what to make of it.

The outer half of the clutch disk friction surface looks to be glazed or scuffed in the picture. What does the flywheel look like or pressure plate?
I would be tempted to replace the disk and pressure plate.

 

[Fixingfarmer]

yeah that seal looks very fresh someone just did this. I would have assumed the bronze piece that’s worn down goofy would have been on the other side facing out but that relief in the crank is also interesting. So I wouldn’t touch the seal. It kinda appears bronze bushing is the easiest thing to do no update to a ball bearing unfortunately. It is a sintered bearing so I think the idea is to heat it till it absorbs some grease. I have a toaster oven set at 240 in the shop for a bearing heater usually for roller bearings I’m not sure what other people use I can count on one had the bearings I’ve had that look like this it’s only going to be greased once and it’s not going to last forever. You can use a bearing driver if you have a set and with the soft bronze you might want to use an actual driver doesn’t have to be the actual tool just a seal driver set with the relief notch. I’d use a socket set and an extension but I’ve been known to need a second bearing/seal

 

[used red MN]

Just drive it out with a punch couple of whacks on one place then a couple 180 degrees across, back and forth. Drive the new one in with a flat plate against it. Finish with a socket if it needs recessed, it doesn’t look like it. Did you try the search and find them? John and Kathy Boehm, I just found it says the page was updated in May of ‘23 so that would mean it is likely current. Try this link..Rusty Acres
It worked for me in preview.

 

[matttractor]

Just drive it out with a punch couple of whacks on one place then a couple 180 degrees across, back and forth. Drive the new one in with a flat plate against it. Finish with a socket if it needs recessed, it doesn’t look like it. Did you try the search and find them? John and Kathy Boehm, I just found it says the page was updated in May of ‘23 so that would mean it is likely current. Try this link..Rusty Acres
It worked for me in preview.

I did shoot them an email earlier today.

Where is this grease retainer at? I'm not seeing it.

 

[Fixingfarmer]

they act like it comes with 19 by the language behind it but the old parts manuals and the new parts websites often don't match up. That might be why the Deere one is so expensive its possible it will come with everything you need to make it easy where the others will just be the brass piece you actually need. The G radiator seals I ordered the other day originally came in a 10 pack as stated in the parts breakdown so I ordered 1 so I didn't end up with 20. Only one showed up so tried again. Thats about how this usually goes its just nice they as the dealer and this website here have the pieces for 90 year old tractors its pretty amazing.

 

[Janicholson]

Flywheel came off with relative ease. Seems the back OD opening for bushing is chipped away. I would think it'd be ok? Lots of residue all over from the bushing.

For removal of the old bushing I'm assuming I could just find something that matches the OD of the bushing and tap it out from the back. Inserting a new bushing (when I can find one...) I guess I can just do the reverse of that and gently tap it in to the opening. Service manual calls for a M611T driver specialty tool. Can't find that.

With the flywheel off I'm wondering what the grease retainer looks like and what am I exactly supposed to fill halfway with bearing grease.

The area (cup like depression) behind the bushing is to be 1/2 full. As I alluded to in my earlier post. Jim

 

[matttractor]

The area (cup like depression) behind the bushing is to be 1/2 full. As I alluded to in my earlier post. Jim

I see, thank you. I’ve never done any mechanical work to this extent so this is helpful. The hole in the middle of that cup is it supposed to be there and if so what purpose? I’m not putting grease down that small hole am I? Forgive my ignorance.

 

[Janicholson]

I see, thank you. I’ve never done any mechanical work to this extent so this is helpful. The hole in the middle of that cup is it supposed to be there and if so what purpose? I’m not putting grease down that small hole am I? Forgive my ignorance.

The grease could be OK in that little hole, but it should be put behind the bushing kinda messy like stuffed into the bushing to 1/2 fill that void surrounding the "little" hole. That hole is used dirring manufacturing to center the crankshaft when machining the main journals. Jim