John Deere 4010 Hydraulic Issues

[Anonymous-0]

I have a well cared for JD 4010 LP tractor that started giving me problems yesterday while disking. The hydraulic cyliner started raising real slowly as did the front end loader. When I let the 3 point arms down & then raised, it made a pretty lound squawl sound. The hydraulic fluid is clean & maintained; but just in case, I put in a new filter. The hydraulics then seemed to work better, but after the tractor was good and warmed up an in working temperature, it had the same ole problem. Thanks for any advice or tips.

 

[buickanddeere]

Cap the loader supply and return lines then try the rockshaft and remote cylinder.
How is the loader plumbed into the tractor's hydraulics?

 

[Larry Zamzow]

It is plumbed via the "power beyond" kit. Loader valve fed from a T in the line on the brake side & returns to the hydraulic filter cap.

 

[buickanddeere]

Ideal. I'll never understand why some people struggle along with loaders plugged into the scv remotes. Doesn't do the main pump any good to cavitate either.

 

[tim s]

I can not relate any thing that would make the loader and the disk raise on there own, exspecialy since you have the loader plumbed the best way,,,the 3 pt squawl could be a valve hanging up, letting the pressure AND the return opening a little , you might need to let it progress a little more to let the problem show it's self better...

 

[Larry Zamzow]

clarification: They were not raising on their own. When I moved the lever for each, each moves slow..

 

[Tx Jim]

(quoted from post at 12:02:48 02/25/09) Ideal. I'll never understand why some people struggle along with loaders plugged into the scv remotes either.

b&d,have you ever wondered if plugging into SCV's for loader operation is according to YOU is so bad why JD would have sold loaders "brand spanking new" with this option????????

 

[buickanddeere]

So JD could sell additional scv outlets and valves to customers.
Why did Deere later recommend using a power beyond circuit for loaders etc?
Loaders are add ons and they were usually added the cheapest way possible as per customers specs.
Farmer bubba had/has no clue that sitting waiting with the clutch down. And waiting for a cavitating hydraulic system to slowly raise the loader.Is nothing out of the ordinary or undesirable.
Ask anybody who has converted from scv supply or a loader to a power beyond supply and dedicated loader joystick/scv's. Which way is better?

 

[Glen D Anderson]

With the exception of the flow from the working ports on the factory SCVs being less that of an aftermarket spool type control valve which may cause longer cycle times for the loader cylinders, I see no downside to using the factory SCV valves.........perhaps other than convenience???

Using the factory SCVs should not cause the main pump to cavitate.............the return oil from the factory SCVs ends up in the loop just like using any ported filter cover...........

Are you under the assumption the SCVs return back to sump?

 

[buickanddeere]

On Waterloo tractors most appear to return the oil between the trans oil pump and the trans filter. It would be interesting to know if every single model does return scv oil to the oil filter. Or do some dump to sump?
Deere does list ported filter covers for various Waterloo tractors. It must be for a reason.
The 10 and 20 series do stop the trans pump when the clutch is pushed. Oil return to the oil filter is vital to maintain main pump supply.
Flow volume is restricted however by passing through the scv valves even if dialed all the way to the rabbit side.
If nothing else. Think of the wear saved to the clutch by not having to stop and wait for a slow loader to raise? Rather then engage the clutch a 2nd time to approach the dumping site/location? Lift the loader and have it to height before reaching the desired destination.
Supplying the loader direct from the high pressure line. And either draining with a "T" into the proper return line or into a ported cover. Does free up a scv for use with other hydraulic equipment.
Pulling the loader lines from a scv to use some other hydraulic load is a Mickey Mouse method.
While this started as a Waterloo question. The Dubuque & Mannheim 20 through 55 series, the scv's dump to sump. Performance is dismal through the scv's for any high volume or extended duration operation.

 

[Glen D Anderson]

I agree that using a larger capacity valve dedicated for the loader circuit is ideal in terms of performance and convenience but it is by no means "mickey mouse" to use the SCVs.............Using the factory SCVs is an afforadble option for operating a loader and unless the loader cylinders are 3" dia. or bigger, cycle times should be adequate for most.................

I do recall reading here that some factory SCVs set up to operate single acting cylinders could've had their return flow routed to the trans. sump???

I'm not familiar with the Dubuque & Mannheim tractors but if their SCVs return to sump that certainly was a huge miscalculation from the engineering dept...............In that case, a ported filter cover or equivalent would be absolutely necessary...........

 

[buickanddeere]

5gpm through the scv is a roadblock to productivity when the tractor is equiped with a 10 gpm and larger pump.
Some Waterloo's with ported filter covers are the following. It appears the ported filter cover WAS offered for a reason on the 10,20,30 & 40 series Waterloo tractors.


4030 Tractor
4230 Tractor
4430 Tractor
4630 Tractor -

4040, 4240 and 4440 Tractors 1899 - 4640 and 4840 Tractors
4010 Tractor
3020 (S.N. -122,999) Row-Crop Tractor
4020 (S.N. -200,999) Tractor
JD500 Tractor
JD600 Tractor

4520 Tractor

4000 and 4020 (s.n. 201,000- ) Tractors
JD500 Series B Backhoe Loader
2520 Tractor
JD500-A (123114-152141) Backhoe Loader
4620 Tractor
500C Backhoe Loader
510 Backhoe Loader
4230 Tractor
4430 Tractor
4630 Tractor

 

[44 Diesel Tech]

I'm with buickanddeere on this one. Independent valve in general works better.
Howard

 

[Tx Jim]

I agree that using an ind valve routing return oil to filter housing is better. But my point was if it is so bad why did JD offer it on new loaders?

 

[buickanddeere]

Because farms, manufactures and dealers everywhere. Have people who can't "think outside of the box".
They have no imagination and even if presented with superior alternative. They will resist rather than having to change their thinking.

 

[Tx Jim]

So are you stating that you know more than the manufactures and that the public should do as buickanddeere states rather than what the manufacture states??????????? IMHO the one reason JD sold the option to operate a loader off of the tractor scv's was for 1 reason. LOWER SELLING PRICE!
Same reason they make all those less expensive tractors with very few options. JD was/is trying to beat/meet their competition.

 

[buickanddeere]

The factory provided the ported filter cover to many satisfied customers for several reasons. The ported filter cover is not some backwoods conversion that Deere frowns upon.
Not the least because a loader, air seeder, backhoe, post hole auger, log splitter etc. All work better from a power beyond tap into the high pressure line. Then returning through a ported filter cover. Faster stroke, less oil heating, elimination of main pump cavitation. And not tying up a scv's remote connectors.
Price a 2nd scv valve, linkage, lines and remote connectors. Then price a ported filter cover, a "T" for the pressure line and a couple of hoses.
It's cheaper, in particular when the loader, air seeder, backhoe, post hol;e auger, log splitter etc have their own valves. Even if you have to purchase a loader joystick/valve. It still isn't more expensive and it works better.
It's also cheaper wearing out a loader control valve than rebuilding the tractor's scv.
Some people just can't get past the though of connecting to hydraulics to anywhere other than through the scv's. We have all seen some stubborn old farmers insist on doing something the hard way.
TxJim. You seem crankier than usual recently. Have though about increasing the amount of fiber in your diet?

 

[Tx Jim]

b&d,
I've ask you before and I'll ask you again.

How is questioning your view point being cranky or picking on you??????????

I elect not to just believe what someone states but what they can PROVE.

Again I never stated plugging a loader in to SCV's was the best way but I think it's not all bad as you make it out to be. Not every farmer I've been around uses a frt end loader every day for hours/day. I bought a '71 4020 that the JD 148 loader plugged into SCV's and I could tell loader had very little usage. Deere offered the option to plug loader into SCV's so I think it's not a BACKWOODS conversion as you choose to call it.

BTW I ate some Wheaties yesterday so GOOD DAY

 

[buickanddeere]

Why connect the loader slow, cavitate the main pump and tie up a scv which is often required for other uses?
When the hydraulics can be tapped directly. It's called foolish stubborn people who refuse to think. Some people even prefer to do things the hard way and have less effective results.
The 148 with little use was because it was so piddling miserable slow to use.
Deere offered the ported filter cover for a reason. Why add an extra scv when just a ported cover and a direct feed costs less and works better?
Deere also offered transmission driven pto's in the era of live pto's . Just for the stubborn, miserable old coots who liked being that way.
Keep up with that daily dose of fiber. We will all be the better for it.

 

[diesel tech]

Why is this thread all about the loader??? It could also be a high pressure leak in the SCV,Steering valve,or rockshaft valve. My quess is it's the stroke control valve that's damaged, stuck or leaking. Been there, seen that many times.
Howard

 

[Tx Jim]

buickanddeere,
Maybe you could also do with a good bit of FIBER and some people on this forum might be "better off" also.

How can you know the loader on the 4020 I bought was slow if you never saw it work? Slow compared to one of the new JD's you brag about? Some more of buickanddeere's gospel?

IF PLUGGING A LOADER INTO the SCV"S IS SO BAD "WHY DID JD OFFER IT AS AN OPTION"???????????????????????????????????????????????????
I suppose according to you JD was WRONG for offering this option.

I'm done on this subject as neither one is going to convince the other !!!!!!

 

[buickanddeere]

The ram size and capacity used with the limited hydraulic flow from the scv's would make loader travel very slow.
Deere offered? How many farm tractors came with loaders from the factory? The loaders were installed at the dealership or in somebodies shed at home.
Billy Bob farmer would never know about a ported filter cover, limited scv flow, limited trans pump capacity. Not knowing any better they would accept using an scv with bailing wire used to tie back the handle as "normal".
The average mechanic, foreman or saleman at the dealership wouldn't know or care either. Unless the farmer came back with slow loader complaints. or if the farmer needed another scv/outlet. What dealer wouldn't sell the $$$ scv, pipework,remotes and labour. Instead of a simple cheap filter cover and a hydraulic line "T" ?
Take 75 Deere farmers and 25 Deere mechanics. Toss a ported filter cover infront of each and how many could even guess what it was or it's use/advantages?
For the initial sale the dealer is going to get the tractor and loader out the door for his lowest price possible. That's going to be two hoses plugged into the scv remotes.
The trip back for either another scv or the power beyond connection is all profit on top. What do you think the dealer is going to do?
Those new bran buds with Psyllium/Ispaghula is powerful stuff. Have a double portion.

 

[Tx Jim]

buickanddeere,
I said I was done but you opened up something NEW. JD built frt end loaders at Welland, Ontario Canada that could have an option of 4 hoses designed by JD to be on a loader and plugged into scv's . Some loaders were installed by JD dealers such as the one I worked at. I guess I should have stated DEALER INSTALLED instead of factory installed.

bye.