John Deere 550 ether damage

[Anonymous-0]

Hi All,
Yesterday Below 0 I must have given too much ether with a high output battery charger hooked up. I am afraid that I might have damaged the engine. How do you tell for sure and can the older 550's with the 4cyl. turbo be repaired in frame? Or does the engine have to be pulled? How big a job is that and do you repair or replace with a reman? Where can you get that engine without going through Deere? I plan on hooking up a generator to it this morning for a few hours to warm it up and see if it will turn over. Can I cause more damage? Thanks a lot for any help.

 

[Lloyd In South Carolina]

What happened that makes you think you hurt it???

 

[fordtractor2000]

we had a 450 dozer an if you gave it more then whiff of ether it would lock up so is there a chance that you just overloaded it and didn t do any damage ? what makes you think you killed it ??

 

[Anonymous-0]

It knocked hard a couple of times then locked up. I waited an hour and it turned over a couple of times with noise. So I won't know till I try it. I called the Deere guy this morning and he said that he has seen a lot of these engines ruined. $7000 for a basic bottom end in-frame. Can anyone answer my other questions? Thanks

 

[IBorange in TX]

I don"t think you hurt the engine. Just remember that a diesel engine has to spin fast, much faster than a gas engine in order to crank. If the batteries are not "hot", they will not spin that motor fast enuf to start. When you use the ether,just use a quick shot, no more. A lot will not do any better than a quick shot. The ether is just a bandaid for a quick start. I would suggest checking those batteries and cables. I'm sure some of the guys will disagree with me, but BTDT.
Good Luck
mb

 

[Anonymous-0]

If the engine needs rebuilding, it would be best to pull it out and have it hot tanked and magna fluxed. The whole kit and kubootle! It's not the same as if it just wore out from thousands of hours of use. If the ether caused damage it could be limited to the head and/or the piston and rings. There are shops that specialize in rebuilding diesel engines. They will usually be a little cheaper than the dealer but not much. If the engine does need work done on it, make sure to go to a place that gives a good warranty on their work and has experience with engines like yours. I've heard too many horror stories of guys getting a friend of a friend to do an engine and it's a big nightmare. By the way, just how much ether did you give it? Dave

 

[PD Mechanical]

Most of the time you can do a complete out of chassis overhaul for much less than $7000. Our typical labor to do a job like that would run around $2500 and a full engine kit typically runs about $1200-$1500. Of course this all depends on what needs replacing. The 550's can be done in the chassis. No real way to tell how much if any damage was done till you fire it up again. Then it may not present itself till down the road. A few broken rings and it will still run but eventually the rings will work themselves up on top of the piston. Repair or replace?? Depends on what you find when you get it apart i.e. cost to repair vs. cost to replace. I wouldn't necessesarily recommend a reman engine. Maybe a good used engine. There are plenty of options available. If you have other questions feel free to contact me at: [email protected] or visit our website: www.pdmechanical.com

 

[Roy Suomi]

7000 for an inframe rebuild ????? Where do I sign up ??? I've done pistons/liners ,oil pump , bearings and changed the head in under 8 hours.....Where's this 7 grand figure come from ?? I'd be tickled to get half that !!!

 

[Roy Suomi]

Tarp that machine and get a torpedo heater under it for a while..It doesn't take much starting fluid to lock up a cold diesel..After warming it up a bit..Half hour or so..Get it turning over with the batteries fully charged..Add just a whiff of starting fluid sprayed into the air precleaner should awaken old sleeping beauty..

 

[Lou from Wi.]

READ your post and was wondering if you use a block/tank heater at all. Makes for an easier start. gas or diesel doesn't matter. Hope you didn't ruin the engine. Keeping fingers crossed for you we have heaters in all our equipment. LOU

 

[Anonymous-0]

Hey guys thanks for all the input. This is a great posting site with a lot of knowlege. Well the story gets better. Yesterday it was -32. I live near Yellowstone. Anyway I managed to get my Honda generator running and plugged the 550 in for a few hours and battery charger and a propane fired heater going.Things warmed up nicely and jumped the batteries with the skidder to get it turning over good. Well it turned over ok without any banging or noises which was a huge relief. Problem now is the engine won't fire at all. Just black smoke. When I give it a shot of ether it has no effect. Won't kick at all.The fuel isn't gelled, I bled the system fine, the diesel looks fine in the filter. I pulled ythe ether start hose off and tested it (turned off the propane heater first). So now I am thinking that someone may have messed with the machine. Today I am going to check the line going into the injector pump and make sure that the fuel is getting through. This machine has never acted like this and it is getting suspicious. I am going to take fuel samples, and see what is what. Anyone have experience with this as far as symptoms? Would sugar cause engine damage? The estimate on an in-frame came from the local Deere dealer. He has a home in Hawii.

 

[jm.]

Patrick: I think you are getting excited about nothing. What you did is normal for a cold engine with low or cold batteries. Now for this morning not cranking we may be to a situation old fellows call washing down. What is going on is two things worn engine, worn injectors & reduced compresion due to raw fuel and either going in. BEFORE you spend a bunch or do anything. Let it warm up a little. The best thing you could do now is mix about 50/50 mix of gas and diesel and try to get into a spray bottel say like a windex bottel ect. Remove the hose going to the intake and give this tractor a pretty good dose. Getting it spinning over fast then you might need just a little starting fluid. I think once you get the compresion up and this unit running everything will take care of it,s self. Good luck jm.

 

[CLTX]

ether should be used very sparingly. Ether will totally wash away the oil on the cylinder walls if very much is used. Hopefully, you didn't do any serious damage.

 

[Anonymous-0]

I seldom use ether.I use a generator to power the engine heater. I used ether this time because it wouldn't fire. The symptoms are: it just blows black sooty smoke when turning it over. It won't even kick if I give it a whiff of ether. This is all with the engine warm.Today I checked the turbo. It is fine. I checked the air cleaner, ok. Took the output line off of the injector pump and turned it over and got fuel. It acts like it is starving for air not fuel. Tomorrow I am going to bleed the injectors and make sure there is fuel and not air, but I don't know how air would have gotten there in the first place. If it is blowing rich black smoke it is getting fuel. Any ideas?

 

[Anonymous-0]

If you have black smoke, you're getting fuel. Maybe the injectors are the problem? Take the air filter right out and see if it starts. Just make sure to wipe the inside of the air cleaner of any dust or dirt. The element could have got wet and froze or is clogged, sucked in some snow, etc. It should fire with a wiff of ether though. If it still doesn't start, I think I'd pull at least 1 injector out and have it checked. Bad injectors would certainly make it hard to start in cold weather. Dave

 

[PD Mechanical]

I agree with 135 fan. Black smoke is plenty of fuel and little air. Black smoke is NOT typical for starting a cold engine. Usually its gray or white and smells of raw fuel. Sounds like a restricted intake somewhere.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Thanks Guys,
Today I am going to check the fuel at the injectors, Try to get the muffler off and check it. The air filter is a dual inner and outer. Both appear to be clean and dry. 135 I will try your idea about mixing some gas and diesel. I will check in with results tonight. The injector pump is gear driven so I am assuming that it isn't some type of timming issue. Maybe somthing got down in the exhaust/ air system when it was -35.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Mixing gas and diesel wasn't my idea. I've never heard of that before. I don't know how anything could get in the intake. Did you take both air filters out and try it? If it doesn't start I was thinking the injectors are worn/dirty and don't have the proper spray pattern or pressure to atomize the fuel. Dave

 

[Brian Allen]

Black smoke means you are getting fuel and not burning it.
Sure sounds to me like you have something blocking the air intake.
That would explain the ether not getting through.
If you can't find anything there, check pump timing.
Post back your findings.
Brian

 

[Anonymous-0]

Hey guys,Well, like I said previopusly I checked the air cleaner, the pump is gear driven, so timeing shouldn't be an issue. Anyway yesterday I managed to get the muffler off. It was black and sooty, with that burn't propane smell. I got the engine warmed up and with a lot of battery power,turned it over and it blew the nastiest black carbon crap all over the place. It wouildn't start, but it seemed like it was turning over better than before. I tried to start it two more times. Then the third time I gave it a shot of ether. Nothing. Not even a kick. I was just hooking the skidder up to it to drag it home, which I was reluctant to do,for a number of reasons, when I decided to give it one more desperate try.I trned it over fast and it did not start but I noticed that when I turned the key off that the engine was still turning over like it had no compression. I had my fingers crossed that it was actually TRYING to run. It took two more tries and it FINALLY fired. I thought that the muffler was plugged up, but the mechanic that I had been consulting with over the phone said to stick it back on and that stuff will burn out. Sure enough, within a few minutes it was purring like a kitten, just as it always has. I ran it home from the jobsite just to be safe. I will plug it in, let it sit and see if it starts like it is supposed to. The big question is: what caused all this in the first place? Fuel leaking through an injector when it was sitting? Not likeley. The engine blows a little puff of black smoke only when shifting or re-accelerating. Bad injectors that built up carbon over time? The machine never gave any indication previous that it was running rich, no missing. What do you think?

 

[Dave N NC]

If it still cranks hard and blows a lot of black smoke you could have a head gasket blown between the cyls.

 

[Brian Allen]

Patrick
Has it been sitting idling with little or no work?
Work the crap out of it! Run it as hard as you can, for as long as you can; if such is the case.
Brian

 

[Anonymous-0]

I think that I have the answer. Last Fall when I changed the oil I overfilled it. Maybe 4 quarts, possibly a little more. I was too cheap to drain it out and use it for bar oil. Now the oil level reads right on the full mark. That oil had to go somewhere over time. When it was -40 the carbon must have accumulated somehow and plugged up the exhaust side of the system. Mystery solved?