(800) 853-2651
SHOP NOW

$$ John Deere vs. Farmall $$

Yesterday's Tractor Forums
A

Anonymous-0

Well-known Member
Why is it that the John Deere's A's and B's go for so much more than the Farmall H's or M's? Its not like there were less JD's made then the Farmall's. The later model JD A's had about the same horsepower as the Farmall M's, and the later model JD B's had about the same amount of horsepower as the Farmall H's. Yet, when I look on the internet or in the local papers at JD A's and B's and Farmall M's and H's, the JD's are always way higher then the Farmall's. A piece of crap JD A that is for parts, can go for the same price as a Farmall M in good condition. I just don't understand this. This is why I will restore anything besides JD's, because anything else is way cheaper to buy and for parts. Perhaps when I am not on such a tight budget, I will fix up a JD A or B, but for now, I'm sticking to the cheaper brands.
 
The answer is simpler than you believe. Eventhough I shouldnt say this, its marketing! Anytime you ask a city person about a farm, what do they say???? John Deere, of course! John Deere is associated with farm equipment like Chevy, Ford, and Dodge are associated with American auto makers. My grandfather started out with John Deere and went on to switch to Oliver. His reasoning was because of live power and the six cylinder power. To this day, our farm runs either Oliver or White, and I work for John Deere...and I really have no desire to run or buy Deere tractors too bad. So anyways, its the name that pushes the prices on Deere. Make your iron choices for your reasons, though. Like I tell people at work that ask me why I have an Oliver decal on my box--"color makes the world go round"
 
To the untrained ear all of the 4-bangers sound alike. From my perspective the John Deere 2-cylinder tractors sound more interesting than any of the 4 cylinder tractors. I think this may help set them apart from machines. They are also a more simple machine with far fewer parts than a 4 cylinder engine, they don't even have a water pump. These types of things are appealing to a casual collector.

I collect Case tractors because they tend to sell for less than either the green or red ones.
 
A couple of bachelor brothers of my mother were such John Deere freaks they wouldn't even buy anything aftermarket. I guess they felt if John Deere didn't make it, they didn't need it.

For this reason, and for no other, my father refused to own a piece of John Deere equipment. I wasn't quite so rigid, and I still have a #5 mower for mowing road ditches.

Although when I owned a John Deere 105 combine, I said I made two mistakes with that combine. The first was when I bought it and the second was when it got on fire, I put the fire out. I should have just let it burn and collected the insurance.
 
It's marketing and John Deere has done a great job of it. In the public mind, John Deere is to farm equipment what Harley - Davidson is to motorcycles. Plus they didn't get bought out or go bankrupt.
 
This depends on location. There were many more Hs and Ms built than the A@B JOHN DEERE and they are popular as its the only two cyclinder tractor built in any amount and most of the time they are over-priced because of that. The orices here arent that high a lot dopends on condition and what the buyer wants to with them most are for people want to restore and usually the RED ones are put to work still location is big. Just look at what the tractors in CALIF are priced.
 
There were more Farmalls made than John Deere's, so the JD's go for more since there where not quite as many made as the Farmalls. I think Farmalls and John Deeres are both very good tractors, but Farmall is my favorite tractor. Going by the Production Numbers in YT, here is the amounts of tractors built:

Farmall H: 391,227
Farmall M: 297,717

Farmall H/M: 688,944

John Deere A: 300,000
John Deere B: 300,000

John Deere A/B: 600,000
 
Well I have to agree with the other guys and the Harley dude is right the two cyl.are set apart watch at a tractor show when some one starts a farmall then a John Deere the deere does turn heads at least when you put the time and effort into it youve got something that is worth something its just the cold hard facts.
 
Especially since an Oliver 77 is a lot better tractor than a JD B or IH H and an Oliver 88 is a lot better than than a JD A or IH M all built roughly in the same time frame and comparable
 
Since it looks like a color war is starting, I'll put in my 2 cents. Any tractor can sound like a John Deere, just keep pullin' off wires till it's runnin' on two!
 
Simple economics, supply and demand. The price of old Farmalls seems to be increasing lately. Allis, etc can still be bought reasonable. One advantage JD has is parts availabily, both through JD and aftermarket. I dont see how it is "marketing", Mother Deere could care less if you buy a 50+ year old tractor, they want to sell NEW ones. Sure they sell parts, but I personally have never seen an ad from JD trying to sell old tractors.
 
My Dad ,who is now 94and in a nursing home ,started farming in 1940and the 1st tractor he bought just before WW2was a IH 10-20.He sold it after 1yr. and bought a 1937 JD A .and never owned another piece of IH equipment .He always said if they didn't make stuff any better than the 10-20 he wanted no part of it .Talk about holding a grudge .
I am not quite that hard headed
 
As an owner of 3 Deeres and 4 Farmalls, I would have to say that engineering and ergonomics on the Deeres are superior. I love the looks of the old Farmalls but they are uncomfortable to sit on, you can"t stand up as easily and I have more mechanical problems with the Farmalls. Bo
 
Because they go "putt-putt!" Anyway, I agree with Bo below in all he said except I have never had more trouble with my Farmalls than I have with my JD's. Comes out about even. Ergonomics and hydraulics put the JD's a littls bit ahead of Farmalls. Having said that----I grew up on a Farmall M and it's still may favorite tractor.
 
The nice part about the Deere is the fact that you don't have to deal with a 2pt hitch like the Farmall's or that disaster the Oliver had for a 3pt traction level hitch thing..whatever it was called with the 3pt drawbar combination. Unlike the Farmall they have two way hydraulics. Personally I like the fact that they don't have the bouncy springy seats like the Farmall's and Olivers. But that gets back to ergonomics, just like the hydraulic levers between your legs. I've only driven one AC in my life so no opinion on those.

The used old ones are just like the used new ones. Compare Deere and Case IH tractors of the same year, horsepower and hours and the Deere will put you closer to bankruptcy every time. My 2 cents.
 
Actually, John Deere does care about their older products and how they sell, thats why they offer parts for those older tractors. I'm not saying your wrong, but it honestly is marketing the whole way. If you tailor to your customer, your more likely to make the sale. At work, I am basically able to order any part for a Deere tractor and it looks and fits like new, no questions. If I want a part for my Oliver Super 77, half the time its a generic "will fit" part that looks like poo.

Another way to look at marketing is to look towards the music industry. How many country songs are either written about or singing about a John Deere tractor? I can think of Kenny Chesney, The Judds, and that guy painting a water tower with "John Deere Green" paint(and I dont even listen to Country). How many songs are there about Oliver, Moline, Allis, Massey, etc??? I cant think of any! Theres that "International Harvester" song but I about puke anytime I hear that song....its like a guy is rambling about something and then he says International Harvester in the refrain....come on! I'm not out to say one brand or one song is better than the other, but its pretty obvious where society places John Deere to the average American outside of rural America. If you had no loyalties, where would you naturally want to go? I guess if Kenny Chesney says a John Deere is nnalert in his music video, he MUST be right, cause superstars are always right...right?

One other thing, in John Deere training classes, they talk about marketing to Americans, not just the farmer....just to pass that along. This you will see very easily in their lawn and garden sales. Lowes, Home Depot, etc.....following my drift? Just me two cents from "the inside"...LOL
 
Everyone below has good points, but let me add this. My Dad who is a fantastic mechanic and worked on both Deere and IH and he never understood why John Deere kept using a horizontal engine LONG after every company quit making them. There were a lot of companys in the early days that used horizontal cylinders and almost all of them quit doing that because of the un even cylinder wall wear. The weight of the piston wears the bottom of the cylinder faster that the top and you end up with egg shaped cylinders. Some of the early ones I can think of were the very first IHs, Rumleys, Averys, Hart Parr and I am sure there are others I just cant think of them right now, but most all early tractors were horizontal. All of those companys but IH went to vertical cylinder engines in the late 20s Except J Deere untill they finally caved in after the 730s. IH went to vertical about 1917 with the 8-16 except on the Mogul which went to 1919. Rumley changed over in the last ones they built in the late twenties or early 30s but those tractors were so outdated when they were built there weren"t many sold as everyone was going with row crops. Most of them were sold to threshing outfits that were die hard Rumley men and who didn"t do much else with them but belt work. My honest opinion is that people do like the putt putt noise, it does have a calming effect when running at low speed. Try this sometime at a show, set a lawn chair next to an running oil field engine or a bigger idling JD or Rumley oil pull and see how long you can stay awake! Doesn"t work so good sitting next to a running four cylinder.
 
In my honest opinion, and this is just me, its the putt, putt that everyone has fallen in love with, now you through in the money factor. Guys with money are willing to pay for that sound, so that has drove the price up so far that the average, doing OK, paying the bills guy who likes JDs can no longer afford them. I see it happening to all of them, and I see it happening on this very board!
 
Yes,you can restore the old farmalls,but when you get done you still don't have anything. You'll have more in the farmalls than what there worth.That's not a way to get ahead finacially.You say your on a tight budget,you'll be on a lot tighter one after you get through loosing money with those farmalls.
 
There is nothing wrong with the Farmall's 2 pt hitch, I like John Deere's too, but a lot of John Deere's designs were not that good. One big problem is the later models frame broke easily when a loader was used, the clutch disc splines on the crank went bad, the steering parts were made poor and the bolts were not a very heavy grade, so they twist off easily. Again, I still like John Deere's a lot, but I have never been unhappy with anything on any of our Farmalls.
 
Honestly Ray...have you EVER gotten ahaead financially on any tractor you REALLY restored?
I don"t mean a new battery and a cheap paint job...I mean really restored. We have done several, and the ONLY one we may even be able to break even on is our Super H Farmall...even our JD 70 isn"t woth as much as we have in it. It"s all marketing and longevity...Every dewwb, zipperhead and kisd has heard/ seen John Deere"s : heck they sell JD stuff in Hallmark gift shops...Farmall stuff isn"t as prevelant, and you don"t drive by IH dealers anymore... some neophytes wouldn"t even know where to get Farmall parts anymore. I luv both, but Bs and As ARE usually over priced compared to IHs...now lets talk Case, AC, MH, MM, Oliver...only one that stays up in value comparably to JD is the Fords.
 
What do you mean by "a Oliver is a lot better than a Farmall or JD"? Why do you think so? Do you own any Farmalls or JD's or are you just saying you like Oliver better because you don't own a Farmall or JD??
 
OK...I love 'em all...but let's hook STOCK (I know modified Ollies make great pullers) JDs, Ihs and Oliies to a sled...The "other green" one is in 3rd every time!
 
Your points are well taken. I just get a little annoyed when people imply the only reason JD is popular is because of marketing and/or John Deere Finance. I have much JD equipment (but not all) on my farm: price, parts availabilty, having the features I want or need, past expirience,etc, all are part of my decision. I dont think I'm following the crowd or listening to a salesmans BS or a country song. LOL One grandad had JD tractors, the other had Farmall then Ferguson and Allis. Dad started with IH and switched to Deere. I've run most all brands at home or at friends farms, started with a Ford 5000 myself.
 
Loosing money maybe.....but you seem to have lost perspective on what this hobby is about. IOt soesnt matter what brand it is, if youre going for the 5 star restoration all of them will loose money.....If youre fixing one up for an extra bit of HP on the farm, then I dont see how you could go wrong wit ha good ole farmall H or M beings as the price of parts for old John Deeres have gone up so far only the well to do can afford them. (If you can tell, I hate rich bass-terds who flaunt their money, and hate those who think they are rich even more!)
 
I wouldnt say all 4 bangers sound alike. Compare the sound of an 40s or 50s 4 cylinder tractor to a modern 4 cylinder car engine. My grandfather hated the sound of a John Deere. My dad didnt like JD untill he understood why they sound like they do. Me, I like the sound of all old equipment even the sound of real flesh and blood horsepower.
 
Ah yes, the ancient and untiring urban/rural legend of horozontal pistons suffering increased wear due to gravity.
If you measure and study the dynamic forces of a reciprocating engine. The force of gravity doesn't even rate as a factor.
Measure any worn bore on any engine. They are all oval or egg shaped.
Funny how these complaints about the the cylinder Deeres being antiquated technology.
These complaints come from the people who are #1 baffled how their favorite brand went bust and had mergers. #2 These people are also stricken and hurt that their favorite 40HP tractor from the 1950's sells for 1/4 to 1/2 the price of a 40HP 1950's era Deere.
Just maybe the tried and proven design worked just fine up to 75HP. And when the 75H+HP vertical engine designs were released. They were thoroughly de-bugged before release.
Anybody ever heard of an IH with a ripped up T/A or final drive?
 
Around here Mid-Michigan the only tractors selling for a premium are any tractor with factory 3PT. Ford N's and Ferguson TO's seem to be over vauled in these parts! Maybe because they where built here?
 
I did say "to the untrained ear". We only had John Deere tractors when I was growing up, so other than tractor shows I did not have exposure to anything else. To me, and probably most other causual listeners, all Farmall, Case, Allis Chalmers, Massey Harris, etc, sounded the same. Yes, there were variations: muffler vs straight pipe, and big engine vs small. But for the most part they all sounded smooth steady and uninteresting.

Since I have begun collecting Case tractors I realize the subtle differences between them.
 
Since it looks like a color war is starting, I'll put in my 2 cents. Any tractor can sound like a John Deere, just keep pullin' off wires till it's runnin' on two!
 
Actually Harley was owned by AMF and the bikes produced in those years are some of the worst HD's ever made. There used to be a commercial on TV about an investment company that took a chance on refinancing HD. This might be when HD went back to being family owned. HD's also use Japanese parts on their bikes like Mikuni carbs. and other parts. John Deere is good at marketing but their agriculture business was suffering enough that they had to look at other markets to get into. That's why JD got into the commercial turf equipment business. John Deere outsources more equipment than anybody else. Had JD just stuck to Ag. equipment, maybe they would have been forced to sell out as well. Luckily they have some smart people who did something before that happened. Every manufacturer has had some exceptional models and some real duds. Any tractor that sold over 300,000 units when there was other competition available, had to be a good product. Considering the Farmalls out sold the JD's, I don't think it's because they weren't as good. Ford and Ferguson out sold both of them. JD, IH and every other maker adapted the 3 pt. hitch to their tractors. They didn't have to. They did out of necessity. Without a 3 pt. hitch, they wouldn't have sold many smaller tractors. Look at the market today. Almost every tractor under 100 HP or so has a 3 pt. hitch. If a manufacturer tried to sell a 50 HP tractor without a 3 pt. hitch, how many do you think would sell? Thats why even old tractors with 3 pts. still command a good price. The 2 cylinder JDs were unique and that's probably why they get a better price. It doesn't necessarily mean they were any better. JD's have always been higher priced. That doesn't make them better either. Restore a MM UDLX if you really want to get a good price for a tractor. You might have a shot at breaking even. Dave
 
Basically, people are attracted to the strange and unusual, and in todays world, large bore horizontal 2 cylinder engines (and their exhaust note) are different. The exhaust sound is also a draw, and if you don't believe that then explain the popularity of Harley-Davidson motorcycles and their large bore 2 cylinder engines. As far as quality, last I looked the local JD dealer had a shop full of equipment being worked on, same as the CNH dealer. Personally, i prefer red, but have also farmed with green. Each have had their victories. In its day, the M was probably the best tractor made, and in its day the 4320 had to be the best tractor built. Dad always thought the best tractor would have an IH engine and a JD rearend. The DT 466 IH has got to be one of the best engines ever built. I had a MM ZA that never failed to start in any weather, no matter how cold. Fact is, all makes had their winners and losers.
 
I agree with the marketing thing about parts. I bet if there was a way to check, you would find out that JD makes way more money selling parts than they do selling new machines. I know a local Honda Motorcycle dealer that sells way more parts than bikes. As far as JD goes, think about it, there are millions of pieces of your equipment out there from the last 50 years or so that will need parts to keep them working. If people can get these parts they might be more likely to buy more of your machinery, even if the parts are rather pricey. Once a certain models parts stop selling in enough numbers to justify making them, is probably when they are discontinued. Dave
 
Lots of opinions already - heres a couple more . I think 2 cyl JD's are considered "more collectable" , "better investment". Also have strong collectors assoc/clubs, good parts support.The more common 2 cyl JD's bring more than the more common old AC's MH,MM , Case and Olivers of the same era as well as Farmalls. I dont think this means the JD's are always the superior working tractor, but the most "collectable" old tractor. Look at it another way. Ford "N" series tractors out sold either of the models you mention, still alot of them in use, good parts availability , bring decent money but are not sought after to restore like a JD , because most people dont view them as a collectors item, they view them as an obsolete utility tractor.
 
Harley tried to patent the exhaust sound on their bikes. A sound couldn't be patented but the US gov't. in their wisdom started putting higher taxes on foreign bikes of higher displacement. A lot of people like the sound of HD's and when the Japanese bikes came with the same sound, the gov't stepped in. I don't think it was right. It's supposed to be free enterprise. Most people who want a HD, won't settle for less than an HD. Same with a JD tractor. Both cost more but aren't necessarily any better than anything else. Sometimes worse. Dave
 
Hi Dave,You say "free interprise". If it were equal, there wouldn't be such a large trade deficit. One could only guess how many American dollars went back to Japan as pure profits last year alone. I think were cutting our own throats. There's something about knowing that when you buy an "American" product the money stays here.
I'll pay 2 dollars for a 1 dollar item knowing the money supports and stays in the community.
JMHO,
Charles
 
The wear problems on the early engines were mostly from using kero as fuel. Starting flooded engines or from burning kero at too low of water temp and or running too rich all caused lower cylinder wear. The wear mostly happened from a heavy cast iron piston in a fuel soaked bore where the fuel is pulled down by gravity and cleans off the oil film at low rpm at first start up, not at high speed where the dynamics take effect. That fuel soaked oil stays in the compression rings a while also till it gets blown out and the piston heats up. So the age old legend may have started in the early days and carried over to JDs. Jds may not show the problem as much because sleeves get replaced at overhaul where most of the early engines didn"t use sleeves and just got new rings and piston or a replaceable block set with pistons. I have seen a lot of JDs get flooded though. My favorite green tractors are going for WAY more than JDs.. Rumley oil pulls. Those have shot so far out of reach I may never own more than a picture of one. Please do remember that most companys go bust because of bad management(sometimes a merger can be a good thing for a company), not because they are bad tractors what ever the color of the paint happens to be. Also Old tractors are only as good as the last guy who worked on them or the guy using them. I run IH H and M because I got them cheap, tons of parts around and they have foot clutches and foot brakes I need for working in the woods logging. It is nice to have a free hand to catch the low limbs flipping off the muffler before I get clobbered or knocked off. I may get a JD someday, it is not out of the question. In fact there is one down the road I have had my eye on, but it won"t get used in hill country in the woods. Seen lot of pics of tree climbing JDs. Kind of like the old unsyled GPs.
 
Thats OK, when the pistons on the 2cyl JD wear through the bottom of the block and fall out, you just turn the block over; pick the pistons up off the ground, reinstsall them and it runs for another 75 years. LOL
 
they have foot clutches and foot brakes I need for working in the woods logging. It is nice to have a free hand to catch the low limbs flipping off the muffler before I get clobbered or knocked off. I may get a JD someday, it is not out of the question. In fact there is one down the road I have had my eye on, but it won"t get used in hill country in the woods. Seen lot of pics of tree climbing JDs. Kind of like the old unsyled GPs.[/quote]

Hitting tree branches tends to disengage the clutch on a two cylinder.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Yesterday's Tractor Forums
Buy Tractor Parts Here Buy Tractor Manuals Here

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Copyright © 1997-2025 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters
Website Accessibility Policy

Back
Top