Legal question

[old]

Well I own land where I have to let another person to his place. Now my problem is he has trucks messing up my drive way so my wifes car can not go out after his trucks go in and out a lot, plus they drive way to fast past my house. What can I do?? I put in speed bumps but after a few trip past they are gone and 2 out of 3 if the drivers will not slow down. This is causeing me problems with my dogs, house dogs that need let out plus the way they drive if some one was out there they could not stop fast enough to keep from running them over. Yes I'm mad and need ideas of how to slow them down and how to keep my road so my wife can go to town. I've spent $40 plus just on gas to fix my road in the last 2 days
Hobby farm

 

[Nancy Howell]

Wish I could help. Guess you're going to need a lawyer. If they use the road, they should share in the cost of upkeep. Fix the road, take pix, take more pix after they tear it up, lots of them. From what little legal experience I have, document your case to the hilt.

 

[kyplowboy]

There is a legal right of way on my grandmother's place. (It is not a big deal now, I bought the farm it leads too.) Anyway the guy who used to farm it hired heethern drivers. In KY all you have to do is provide the width in the deed, not keep it up. They have the right to drive across it but the land owner still has the right to farm it. What I did was set it up where there was a gate every 200 feet. (The guy never figured out why he was drive'n through 6 pastures that all had cows in them but I made shure that he opened and closed one each trip)

If you put up some gates that they have to stop and open and close each trip that will slow them down. As for damages on the drive way, can't help you there.
Good luck!!
Dave

 

[Anonymous-0]

Can you put up a speed limit sign? Maybe if they use the driveway, they should pay for a load of gravel to repair it? If a sign doesn't slow them down, maybe a tractor parked in the way with a wheel off because of a "flat" or out of gas would smarten them up. I have a friend who got mad at some young kids racing down his back alley in a van. He could hear them speed up when they turned into the alley. He has some young kids. With some real precision he threw an old wheel out into the alley about 3 seconds before they could see him do it. They had to slam on the brakes and he told them if they don't slow down, he was going to go straight to their house to have a talk with mom and dad. Problem solved. Dave

 

[Bob85355]

Old,

Sounds like an easement issue. I"m not a lawyer and haven"t lived in Missouri for 47 years, come from the bootheel area.

Maybe you need a lawyer but I"d first recommend you check your state statutes (laws) on easements. If your email is open I"ve got some stuff from Black"s Law Dictionary that will give you a pretty good overview of easements.

Bob
Central Arizona

 

[noncompos]

Old, it's been said that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and that's especially true with easement problems...
There are general benefits and limitations of easements, there're the various court decisions in your state interpreting those generalities, and then there's the particular circumstances of the creation and since creation usage of your easement...only an experienced real estate atty--preferably one with easement experience, the more the better--can help you.
You do need to gather what history you can (deed copies, etc) (but don't try to do a comprehensive definitive research of the easement unless you've spent several years in land title work) before you talk to an attorney.
I'm assuming you've talked to the other owner and haven't been able to work anything acceptable out.
Run the archives for easements and carefully read JohnT Country Lawyers posts. With sympathy, Bud

 

[Walt Davies]

Put up a lot of gates but don't lock them just make the drivers get out to open them and then shut them. Put up a sign close gates so animals can't get out.
I bet the owner will talk turkey real fast. Oh don't use speed bumps dig a good ditch ever go fast though one of those. Put in a cattle guard but set it at a 45 geg. angle.
Jump out in front of them every once in while after clean their short a few times they will slow up.
I will go to bed and think up a few more good things all legal too.
Walt

 

[Anonymous-0]

And photographs..Your house, the vehicles and their dust. better than explaining.Try and find the original paperwork or how it transpired-they may have a legal right>

 

[[email protected]]

You don't say if you speak to this person normally or if he's a silent neighbor. The first thing to do is talk to him, or send him a letter. Retain a copy for your records. If he knows this is actually your property allowing him access, he may understand your doing him a favor. If he wants to be a jerk, then you are going to need to get a lawyer involved. Property disputes are not much fun, but they are civil and will require some research to see who has what.

 

[Tradititonal Farmer]

If you gave them permission you can retract that permission at any time.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Old, need way more information. You say "where I have to let another person to his place". Is it a legal easement? Written? Recorded in county records? How long in use? Why does it come down your driveway? Can you route his easement away from your driveway so that he has access but in his own driveway, on the edge of your land? What does he say when you have approached him about driveway repairs, speeding. safety concerns, etc. Tom

 

[Tom Holland]

I've actually done the ditch thing. That works that best. Covering it up with a thin layer of pine straw really gets there attention the first time!!

 

[jose bagge]

Old, I have an easment through my property that is the similar to your own. Although my neighbor is great about it, i can see how many might not be.
Since it is "common use", any repairs you perform can also be partially billed to your neighbor- including gravel, gas, etc. You can also limit the type of travel- personal rather than commercial if those trucks are business related.
To slow 'em down, drop a few railroad ties (staggered) at intervals in 2 or 3 places...they can't beat 'em down like speed bumps, and if they just run over 'em it beats up the underside of the truck. Create a "chicane" that they have to negotiate...
Good luck- "neighbor issues" are the worst! A good neighbor is a beautiful thing.

 

[High Octane]

Maybe put ya up a toll booth. speed limits sign with an old used police car sitting at the end of the drive,,,, if it was me,, Id put some really long nails or spikes in a 4x4 post, and bury it in the drive, next time they hit your speed bump, they will know they hit something this time,, right?? or simply put,,, ROAD CLOSED. If they abuse you now, they are gonna continue, especially if your not good friends with your neighbor. Video tape a weeks worth of driving,,, make copies and take them to him, at some point in time, they should get the message.

 

[JDemaris]

Well, if you own the land - but you say you HAVE to let the guy use it - the answer is dependent on why? You don't need a lawyer, you need an iterpretation of the existing facts. Is there a recorded easement, implied easement, use agreement with consideration, or adverse use? Makes a big difference.

 

[John T Attorney]

Hey there Rich, Im sure you have read my posts on this subject before but the problem is there are wayyyyyyyyyy to many unknown facts to give you any worthwhile professional legal opinion here so be wary of opinions posted here from any of us attorneys (states laws vary and Im in Indiana mind you) let alone lay although well meaning opinions. Some of the questions I would ask as an attorney are: Is there any writing concerning the use?? Is there ay deed or other recorded instrument concerning this use?? How long has it taken place?? has it been with your permission?? Can the user enter elsewhere ?? PLUS about a hundred more lol

In the meantime you have to start to gather up evidence and any writings and past procedures and pictures and what took place WHEN in a nice orderly chrnologial fashion. The better you have all that summarized the easier n cheaper it will be if you go to an attorney. Look for LSO or other free or cheap initial consultation and around here, myself included, theres NO charge for an initial appointment.

Sorry I cant help much now as you have ALWAYS been willing to lend a hand n help others here but Im headed to Moline Illinois for the Gathering of the Green n have to put on 3 Seminar Workshops concerning our beloved Deeres PLUS all I can do now is ask a ton of questions before I could provide any legal opinions or advise you more.

Start gathering records and evidence and a recored of what happened when in the meantime. Once Im back home feel free to call me for a chit chat buttttttt Im NOT licensed to practice in your state anyway so my best advice is to seek out some initial free local legal consultation.

God bless ya Rich, keep us posted

John T Nordhoff The Country Lawyer in Bloomington Indiana

 

[Anonymous-0]

A little common sense here. Laws are different in every state but if your neighbor is land locked you might have to give him a way to get to his property, but not just as a convience but as a necessity. If he damages your property (road) he is liable to repair it. It's best just to talk to your neighbor about your concerns before you head to court and avoid hard feelings.

 

[Mike (WA)]

He doesn't need a lawyer? Then you cite a string of legal terms- exactly who is supposed to "interpret" the facts? I think a lawyer is exactly what he needs.

 

[old]

John, as I said I have to let him as in deeded access thats not the problem its the fact they mess up the road so bad my wifes car. A 1980 Chev citation can not be driven out because of the ruts. If it was summer it would not be a problem because the ground would be hard but this time of year the frost is just coming out of the ground so it has a lot of soft spots in the road
Hobby farm

 

[JDemaris]

Sounds to me that you suffer from the "false authority" syndrome.

In regard to words and phrases - if you don't understand, go look them up. Just remember that words can have special meaning in legal documents -and that is why such documents usually have their own little dictionary of word meanings - pertaining only to the document at hand.

So, would you pay someone $100 an hour to change a spark-plug for you?

Just like any other profession - some attorneys are very good at their jobs - and some are incompetent - and others, idiots. Having a Juris Doctorate does not insure very much. I'm not attacking lawyers - this is a general statement about any profession.

Regardless - an average person with an IQ over 75 can check the basics without paying for it. Such as - finding out land-use regs, statutes, public land and highway laws, etc. for the area of concern.
Next step is finding out about the property in question - e.g. checking the deed and deed-chain, checking for recorded easements on other deeds, checking for any claims of implied uses, etc. Most of these are in the public record and anybody can search through them for free.
If you hire a lawyer to search land and court records - in most cases - the lawyer will sub the work out to a non-lawyer to actually do the research. I've done it for many attorneys.
If someone takes the time to check the easiest and most obvious stuff and is then concerned and unsure - then is a good time to get a lawyer that specializes in that field.

Also keep in mind, that since the Internet was invented - anybody can easily check current case-law for the area in question.

Anyway - I did't say it's wrong to hire an attorney - nor is it wrong to pay someone to change a spark-plug for you - if you don't want to - or just can't figure it out. I am stating that in many cases it is NOT the first thing needed to do.

 

[JDemaris]

It all depends on exactly what is written. Deeded access will have some sort of description of use, allowance of road improvement, maintenance, possible right to run utilities, etc. If it is not completely described, then it can get more complicated and revert to existing land and use laws - and those vary alot across the country. In most places, if not written, use only refers to "over your property" and only on the existing road track. Have you read your deed or easement?

I'm not being a wise guy here - but I have met many people with land problems - and they'd never actually read their own deeds.

I recently bought some land that was subject to a long standing dispute - over 20 years. The one guy felt he had a right to use a driveway on a neighbor's property - but that neighbor put a gate on the driveway for 20 years -and there were constant hard feelings about it. Well, I bought the land last Fall, pulled the deed - and there was an court-ordered easement attached to that deed. The guy who had been locked out for 20 years had the rights on his deed all that time - but never read the deed to find out. Now I own the land and I have keys to that gate.

 

[deadeye012]

Old:
Check with the county to see if there are weight restrictions on the road in the spring...I live in Iowa and we have them here for a month or two so that the trucks don't tear up the roads...JB

 

[trucker40]

I think thats right.A lawyer could mess it all up as well as fix it.Maybe tell him to buy some rock and maybe you buy some too if the trucks slow down.

 

[old]

This deeded access isn't worded well. All it says is access and said access so it has nothing on it about how or what can or can't be run across the road or maintance to the road

 

[Kemper]

Old

ok,so the neighbor has an easement to get to his property,there is no law that says you have to bear all the maintenance so he can get to his land,if it were me i would send him a bill for half the cost of the rock and grading and if he doesent pay it,i would have my lawyer send him a letter telling him to help keep up the road or not be allowed to use it.

 

[JDemaris]

Well, that can complicate things. Are you sure that your deed isn't referencing a fuller description that is recorded separately on a different document? Perhaps in the name of the other party, or in older deeds of former owners of your property? No book or page #s cited?
Technically, in a legal dispute, since you own the land - the burden of proof is on the other people to prove their right if it is challenged (at least in any part of the US I've dealt with).
These things can turn into prolonged messes and you're always better of solving things by mutual agreement if possible. Same goes with surveys which are often wrong.
Sometimes the other party might actually have a written easement that wasn't recorded and suprise you with it. The law does not require recording easements or deeds - but doing so makes things a lot easier.

Many old deeds and easements were written without much information. In my area of New York, the county registrar won't allow easements in deeds unless they are described properly and mapped. I've had a few rejected for lack of information.
If the description doesn't really describe anything seems it doesn't mean very much. But, prior use comes into play. Utility Companies used to purposely write vague descriptions for easements so it was very difficult to stop them from doing anything.
I've got some property up in the Adirondack Mountains - and the power company has a 70 year-old easement on my land that states - they can enter whenever, whereever, and do whatever they deem necessary to maintain their power lines. And, they make it clear that it will be up to them - to decide what is neceessary, and what is not. That's about as open-ended as you can get.

 

[Anonymous-0]

I am in the middle of an easment issue. I had a lot of input from guys on this site last fall about it. Just an update here. The guy using my land put an easment on before he sold it. Wrote in the easment that we would share costs of maintanence and upkeep on road. When I went to do an improvement, he got mad and billed me $3400 for gravel, snow removal and attorney fees. He filed a claim in small claims court for that amount. I hired an attorney and the first thing he said was he can't collect attorney fees for a contract dispute. Next he wanted to take it out of small claims court and move it to circuit court so we could settle the easment issues. Turns out he is not allowed to puty an easment on his own land. He also had a copy of the easment in the purchase agreement. That copy was different than the one he had filed a week before giving me a copy of it. The one I got didn't mention anything about snow removal and it said the owner of the easment (which was him) was suposed to take care of the maintenance. We did move it to circuit court and have had the first meeting with the judge to set a trial date and such. The guy has 2 days left to file a complaint to continue it in court. I am betting he doesn't want to because he may loose his access. He didn't need the easment in the first place because he has land that joins the place he wanted to get to. It was just that it was shorter across the piece he sold me. Even if he decides to drop it in court, I intend to pursue it and get him off the land altogether. So far, I am down $1700 in attorney fees. It isn't cheap going that route but it needs to get settled sooner or later.

 

[old]

Well the main area that is the problem area isn't even on my land but some one else but the drive way is my only way in or out. Years ago my parents went to court over a problem with there driveway which is part of my drive but also part of another drive way. Court said they had a 30 foot right of way that could not be closed off other then by a gate or cattle guard
Hobby farm

 

[JDemaris]

If the situation is about your rights on someone else's property - whatever recorded rights you have will be decribed with detail if done by court order.
Do you have a copy of the actual decree? If not, you ought to get it and read carefully.

The situation I mentioned about the land I bought has an easement by court order. It is only briefly mentioned on the deed, and I had to go and get the actual court order to find out exactly what the easement is. It's two pages long and complicated, but pretty much covers every contingency.

 

[SKYBOW]

Old
Just a thought here....I'd talk to the guy about your concerns. IF he isn't agreeable to a compromise so that you both can exist comfortably with this road situation, I would say it was time to make some urgently needed repairs to that road. If is is so swampy that your wife can't drive out, maybe you should see about digging a deep trench across it and installing a colvert. I would dig the deep trench immediatley. Then I would guess that it might take 3 to 6 months to get bids on the remainder of the work and to get it all done but until then there will be this deep trench across the road. (It's hard to get good help Nowadays and moneys tight for improvements..etc) Present that to this guy as an "option" if he doen'st want to be a good neighbor. After all you are just trying to "Improve" his access by geting rid of the soft area. It's not really your fault that it takes 6 months to get it done.
I really hope it doens't come to this............

 

[massey333]

Since you have now said you don't own this Driveway,You had best follow JDs advice and read the court order closely.Not knowing what it says,it could just allow you your 30Ft. useage of the roadway with NO UPKEEP or no further repercussions on your part.I have a case right now where I am allowing a young couple to use my lane(new House) till I tell them to build their own 15Ft.away from mine.I owe them nothing as far as Maint,even tho I run 60-100,000Lb.+loads over it.Good Luck in whatever you find out.