I am helping an elderly lady with no family close and she is trying to get her assets and affairs in order. She has a fair amount of money and a small 140 acre farm. All is in just her name and she is concerned that some distant family members will do what they want and not follow her wishes. Any one have any experience with this type situation, and is a will good enough with a netrual party for the personal rep. and how does a living trust differ from a will. Any feed back will be appreciated.
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
A living trust is by far better then a will. My parents have one and it has helped keep problems from coming up. My dad died in May and the trust really helped my mom out and when she dieds I get the fun of taking care of the rest. Plus on a will there are taxes to be payed and on a trust at least in my state there is no taxes to worry about
Hobby farm
Hobby farm
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Lawyer told me and wife that will has limited liability and with trust creditors can bug you forever. Trust is more work and costs more. Depends on assets and issues. Please post what you find. Always interesting.
Can't imagine why a Living Trust would be preferable to a Will in this case. Will gives the advantage of step-up tax basis on inheritance of the real estate (or sale of same and distribution of the proceeds to the heirs). She needs to name the Trust Officer of her bank, or her attorney, as Executor, to be sure her estate is distributed to her heirs properly.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Yes, but many people may have experienced the differences and can give advice based on their experience. Wills and estates often become the biggest family feuds imaginable. Getting advice to try to eliminate the feuding is always a good idea. I was lucky. My dad knew how much a pain it was to be the executor, so he chose my brother to save me the hassle. He split everything equal so there wasn't too many problems. A few small ones though. Anytime money's involved, greed sets in. Sad but true. Dave
supergrumpy
Member
Living Trust - person with the stuff transfers just about all of it to the Trust while still alive and sets up string of "trustees" to carry out terms of the Trust, well drawn trust document makes it fairly easy for trustee, many are not well drawn
Will - sets out persons wishes, transfer of title to heirs has to be made after DOD, BIG hassle for executor or personal representative
putting stuff in "joint" accounts/names has plus/minus sides
greedy relatives can challange ANYTHING
I could go on for days, please find an honest attorney (they are alleged to exist) and hope he/she does a good job
Will - sets out persons wishes, transfer of title to heirs has to be made after DOD, BIG hassle for executor or personal representative
putting stuff in "joint" accounts/names has plus/minus sides
greedy relatives can challange ANYTHING
I could go on for days, please find an honest attorney (they are alleged to exist) and hope he/she does a good job
This is an extremely complicated subject that changes constantly, and I know more about it than I ever wanted to. I learned much in an effort to help my mom when she was 90 years old and just starting to show signs of senility.
There is no easy way to do this - but I suggest you find an expert you trust. "Trust" is the key word. I have spoken to many Elder Law professionals that are only looking out for themselves. Obviously they are not all that way - just keep in mind that it's big business and you have to do your homework.
Same goes for lawyers in general. Some lawyers do so because they are interested in the law and helping people. Some other lawyers are functional idiots - and know less about the law in general than an average lay-person. Again, like in just about any business, some do it for the money, some do it because they love the work, and some can mangage a healthy balance of both.
A Juris Doctorate does not guarantee excellence.
And - I'm not trashing the legal profession- some of my best friends are attorneys.
There is no easy way to do this - but I suggest you find an expert you trust. "Trust" is the key word. I have spoken to many Elder Law professionals that are only looking out for themselves. Obviously they are not all that way - just keep in mind that it's big business and you have to do your homework.
Same goes for lawyers in general. Some lawyers do so because they are interested in the law and helping people. Some other lawyers are functional idiots - and know less about the law in general than an average lay-person. Again, like in just about any business, some do it for the money, some do it because they love the work, and some can mangage a healthy balance of both.
A Juris Doctorate does not guarantee excellence.
And - I'm not trashing the legal profession- some of my best friends are attorneys.
Midwest redneck
Well-known Member
Old is right. A living trust is way better then a will becasue a living trust just says that a child or more then one child is also the owner of say a house that is worth $100,000 and now that child owns it after the old person dies. A will says Yep so and so is dead and now the child has to sell the house and then give 1/3 to in taxes to the government.
Charles (in GA)
Well-known Member
While some (Jerry/MT) feel this is not the place to ask this kind of question, it is a place where many people, with personal experiences, can relate what has happened to them or persons they know. It always helps to have a decent eduction on the subject. As jdemaris said, there are lawyers and there are lawyers. Some know their stuff, some don't but pretend to.
I'm a tax assessor, so I get to see some of this stupidity that lawyers create. In one case, a couple came in, wanting to know why we had removed the homestead exemption on the man's mother's house. Turns out the mother had wanted to make her property readily available to her son upon her death, the lawyer had titled it in the sons name, but the son already had a homestead, so we pulled the one on the mothers place. What the lawyer should have done, and should have know to do and recommend, is to transfer the property to her son and that he give her a Life Estate in the property. She has the right to live there until she dies, and she can claim homestead on it. We suggested they go back to the lawyer and explain to him what he should have done and make him do it for free the second time around.
With money in accounts of almost any kind, I personally feel the best thing that you can do is not to designate a beneficiary, as this puts the account inside the estate and it has to go thru probate, with all debts of the estate being paid out first, the beneficiary only receiving the remainder of the account if any, but rather, designate the account as ITF or POD (In trust for, or Payable On Death) which puts the account outside of the estate. The person named as the ITF or POD need only walk in the bank or where ever, and present a death certificate, and identify themselves, and walk out with a check. No estate, no probate, no problems.
Again, as noted, seek the advise of an attorney who specializes in estates, make the complete situation, and all property, both real and personal, known to the attorney and throughly discuss the possibilities and ramifications. Be prepared to ask questions and challenge what you are told if it doesn't seem right, that is the only way to get the skinny.
Charles
I'm a tax assessor, so I get to see some of this stupidity that lawyers create. In one case, a couple came in, wanting to know why we had removed the homestead exemption on the man's mother's house. Turns out the mother had wanted to make her property readily available to her son upon her death, the lawyer had titled it in the sons name, but the son already had a homestead, so we pulled the one on the mothers place. What the lawyer should have done, and should have know to do and recommend, is to transfer the property to her son and that he give her a Life Estate in the property. She has the right to live there until she dies, and she can claim homestead on it. We suggested they go back to the lawyer and explain to him what he should have done and make him do it for free the second time around.
With money in accounts of almost any kind, I personally feel the best thing that you can do is not to designate a beneficiary, as this puts the account inside the estate and it has to go thru probate, with all debts of the estate being paid out first, the beneficiary only receiving the remainder of the account if any, but rather, designate the account as ITF or POD (In trust for, or Payable On Death) which puts the account outside of the estate. The person named as the ITF or POD need only walk in the bank or where ever, and present a death certificate, and identify themselves, and walk out with a check. No estate, no probate, no problems.
Again, as noted, seek the advise of an attorney who specializes in estates, make the complete situation, and all property, both real and personal, known to the attorney and throughly discuss the possibilities and ramifications. Be prepared to ask questions and challenge what you are told if it doesn't seem right, that is the only way to get the skinny.
Charles
John T Country Lawyer
Member
Jim, of course, these type questions CAN NOT be answered here in a short space that would take an entire library to cover in depth PLUS even my professional educated and experienced opinion (let alone lay opinion) is WORTHLESS until the exact dettails and the exact needs and desires of the client are fully understood. SO BE CAREFUL OF WHAT ADVICE YOU GIVE HER AND HAVE HER CONSULT A LOCAL ATTORNEY EXPERIENCED IN ELDER LAW before you put much stock in my unresearched even professional opinion here let alone a lay opinion.
That being said, I can still state with professional certainty now that whether a Trust or a Will is best for her DEPENDS ON THE SITUATION. In some cases a Will is better while in others I would suggest a Trust BUT ONLY AFTER A THOUROUGH REVIEW, not based on one sentence on a tractor chat board. One must also be careful when a brother in law or the dude next door tells you it should be a Trust or another says NO a Will BECAUSE IT DEPENDS ON THE SITUATION. When that same brother in law or next door neighbor advises you to have an operation DO YOU PUT MUCH FAITH IN THEIR OPINION??? No I doubt it (you consult a professional educated in medicine right) but soooooooo many people have been ripped off or lost fortunes because they believed the brother in law or the neighbor and didnt consult with an attorney trained in the legal profession like they would if they needed medical help or a plumber or an electrician ITS GO DO WHAT THE NEIGHBOR OR BROTHER IN LAW TELLS THEM
ENOUGH RANT N DISCLAIMERS LOL I wouldnt want my own mother or even a stranger ripped off or given bad advice when a short relatively inexpensive session with a trained professional (versus the brother in law lol) could have prevented the same....
Im not going to attempt to explain the advanages or disadvantages of a Will versus a Trust here in a paragraph THATS IMPOSSIBLE. Just last week I attended a two day conference on Elder Law (part of our legal continuing education) and heard of sooooooooo many of the horror stories and "dudes" many NOT attorneys out there inviting folks to the Holiday inn for this free seminar to lure them into paying $3000 for a fancy leather bound LIVING TRUST and spreading all sorts of lies and half truths about how they were better and a Will was a piece of crap. (Its hard to get $3,000 for a Will you see, I just charge $100 for simple wills, maybe I need to start selling those fancy leather $3,000 Trust packages lol) Many are being sued now and the states Attorneys General are pressing criminal and fraud charges against SOME of them. DONT BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU HEAR AT THE HOLIDAY INN FREE TRUST SENMINAR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
True, for some its best but NOT for others that why I wouldnt put much faith in whats posted here (mine included as its unresearched) even if it were true and perfect FOR THOSE CERTAIN SITUATIONS. Both a Will and a Trust could have been perfect n correct for a person here BUT MAYBE WRONG AS RAIN FOR ANOTHER. Thats to say what a lay person tells you hear may have been exactly right and honest and from great people (tractor folks are the finest Ive ever encountered, gotta love em all) but may or may not be best for the lady you spoke of..........
FINALLY TO GIVE A FEW BRIEF UNRESEARCHED PROFESSIONAL LEGAL OPINIONS
If a lady wishes her property to pass to certain individuals and doesnt trust family members, Id advise her to use a Will prepared by an Attorney and perhaps name a local bank and trust company as her Personal Representative PERIOD...........A proper will can survive any challenges if done RIGHT.....
Other methods I often use if she wanted to transfer real property upon death are a Deed of Conveyance subject to the reservation of a Life Estate NO PROBATE OR TRUSTESS ARE NECESSARY the property passes as a matter of law outside of any estste, a non probate transfer. Another method is Joint Ownership with full rights of survivorship but it may have disadvantages .....
If for some reason she insisted on a Trust, again DO NOT NAME FAMILY MEMBERS AS CURRENT OR SUCESSOR TRUSTESS.
There may or may not be tax advantages in one versus the other DEPENDS ON THE SITUATION
Wills and Estate Settlements can be public information while the trust instrument can be kept private......
PLUS ABOUT 100 OTHER THINGS only a few of which were touched on briefly in my recent 2 day seminar SEE WHAY THIS CANT BE COVERED HERE???????
Based on what little info you have I dont see the need of any Trust. A proper will can take all the worry out of any family members she doubts and no worry about any family member trustees. A Trust requires a current (could be her) plus a successor trustee (even if a bank) but a Will coupled with other joint survivor or POD (like the person she wants it to pass to) accounts can insure the distribution she wants NOW and no other future worries. A joint account or POD is a non probate transfer remember, no estate or settlement worries. Present the bank with ID and a death cerificate plus the necessary auditors documentaion n BANG ITS YOURS no probate no estate NO ATTORNEYS NEEDED LOL. Likewise a joint real estate tenancy (or the life estate I mentioned) REQUIRES NO PROBATE OR NOTHING AT alllllllll Other persons dead BANG its your property PERIOD. Although I do file affidavits of survivorship in such cases.
Seeeeeeeee its possible if done right by an attorney for her to pass all she wants n how she wants it now with no family member worries n if I got done with her she wouldnt require any expensive trust or hardly even need a Will......... and can get by with almost no or limited probate
NUFF SAID A Will may be best or a Trust IT ALL DEPENDS Have her consult a local Elder Law Attorney PERIOD (PS I think maybe joint or POD accounts and a simple Will is alllllll she needs, if she feels better having a $3,000 Trust its good business for those who sell them and in SOME situations its best and money well spent if from a reputable attorney, they are great in some cases)
God Bless all the great people here n have a Blessed n Merry Christmas
John T (long retired electrical engineer now a semi retired Country Lawyer)
That being said, I can still state with professional certainty now that whether a Trust or a Will is best for her DEPENDS ON THE SITUATION. In some cases a Will is better while in others I would suggest a Trust BUT ONLY AFTER A THOUROUGH REVIEW, not based on one sentence on a tractor chat board. One must also be careful when a brother in law or the dude next door tells you it should be a Trust or another says NO a Will BECAUSE IT DEPENDS ON THE SITUATION. When that same brother in law or next door neighbor advises you to have an operation DO YOU PUT MUCH FAITH IN THEIR OPINION??? No I doubt it (you consult a professional educated in medicine right) but soooooooo many people have been ripped off or lost fortunes because they believed the brother in law or the neighbor and didnt consult with an attorney trained in the legal profession like they would if they needed medical help or a plumber or an electrician ITS GO DO WHAT THE NEIGHBOR OR BROTHER IN LAW TELLS THEM
ENOUGH RANT N DISCLAIMERS LOL I wouldnt want my own mother or even a stranger ripped off or given bad advice when a short relatively inexpensive session with a trained professional (versus the brother in law lol) could have prevented the same....
Im not going to attempt to explain the advanages or disadvantages of a Will versus a Trust here in a paragraph THATS IMPOSSIBLE. Just last week I attended a two day conference on Elder Law (part of our legal continuing education) and heard of sooooooooo many of the horror stories and "dudes" many NOT attorneys out there inviting folks to the Holiday inn for this free seminar to lure them into paying $3000 for a fancy leather bound LIVING TRUST and spreading all sorts of lies and half truths about how they were better and a Will was a piece of crap. (Its hard to get $3,000 for a Will you see, I just charge $100 for simple wills, maybe I need to start selling those fancy leather $3,000 Trust packages lol) Many are being sued now and the states Attorneys General are pressing criminal and fraud charges against SOME of them. DONT BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU HEAR AT THE HOLIDAY INN FREE TRUST SENMINAR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
True, for some its best but NOT for others that why I wouldnt put much faith in whats posted here (mine included as its unresearched) even if it were true and perfect FOR THOSE CERTAIN SITUATIONS. Both a Will and a Trust could have been perfect n correct for a person here BUT MAYBE WRONG AS RAIN FOR ANOTHER. Thats to say what a lay person tells you hear may have been exactly right and honest and from great people (tractor folks are the finest Ive ever encountered, gotta love em all) but may or may not be best for the lady you spoke of..........
FINALLY TO GIVE A FEW BRIEF UNRESEARCHED PROFESSIONAL LEGAL OPINIONS
If a lady wishes her property to pass to certain individuals and doesnt trust family members, Id advise her to use a Will prepared by an Attorney and perhaps name a local bank and trust company as her Personal Representative PERIOD...........A proper will can survive any challenges if done RIGHT.....
Other methods I often use if she wanted to transfer real property upon death are a Deed of Conveyance subject to the reservation of a Life Estate NO PROBATE OR TRUSTESS ARE NECESSARY the property passes as a matter of law outside of any estste, a non probate transfer. Another method is Joint Ownership with full rights of survivorship but it may have disadvantages .....
If for some reason she insisted on a Trust, again DO NOT NAME FAMILY MEMBERS AS CURRENT OR SUCESSOR TRUSTESS.
There may or may not be tax advantages in one versus the other DEPENDS ON THE SITUATION
Wills and Estate Settlements can be public information while the trust instrument can be kept private......
PLUS ABOUT 100 OTHER THINGS only a few of which were touched on briefly in my recent 2 day seminar SEE WHAY THIS CANT BE COVERED HERE???????
Based on what little info you have I dont see the need of any Trust. A proper will can take all the worry out of any family members she doubts and no worry about any family member trustees. A Trust requires a current (could be her) plus a successor trustee (even if a bank) but a Will coupled with other joint survivor or POD (like the person she wants it to pass to) accounts can insure the distribution she wants NOW and no other future worries. A joint account or POD is a non probate transfer remember, no estate or settlement worries. Present the bank with ID and a death cerificate plus the necessary auditors documentaion n BANG ITS YOURS no probate no estate NO ATTORNEYS NEEDED LOL. Likewise a joint real estate tenancy (or the life estate I mentioned) REQUIRES NO PROBATE OR NOTHING AT alllllllll Other persons dead BANG its your property PERIOD. Although I do file affidavits of survivorship in such cases.
Seeeeeeeee its possible if done right by an attorney for her to pass all she wants n how she wants it now with no family member worries n if I got done with her she wouldnt require any expensive trust or hardly even need a Will......... and can get by with almost no or limited probate
NUFF SAID A Will may be best or a Trust IT ALL DEPENDS Have her consult a local Elder Law Attorney PERIOD (PS I think maybe joint or POD accounts and a simple Will is alllllll she needs, if she feels better having a $3,000 Trust its good business for those who sell them and in SOME situations its best and money well spent if from a reputable attorney, they are great in some cases)
God Bless all the great people here n have a Blessed n Merry Christmas
John T (long retired electrical engineer now a semi retired Country Lawyer)
Any Item worth 10 grand must be incased in the living trust. Just show Only the last page of the trust to the bank for setting up the trust name on the bank accounts. Only way to fly. No Probate and all tranfer is private as per the living truat directions. Do it right with a lawyers who specialize in trust-no accountants.
They have Revocable Living Trusts i.e. you can revoke n change at any time anddddddd they have Irrevocable Living Trusts i.e youre locked in n stuckkkkkkkkk lol The medicare folks arent into the revocable thing n figure you cant have your cake n eat it to, but thats to save us taxpayer dollars ya know. I personally agree with medicare on that, I got no problem helping the indigent but if a guy is rich I figure let him pay his own medical expenses instead of taxpayers footin the bill from him trying to hide his money yet still have control over it grrrrrrrrr.
Old Conservative Fuddy Duddy John T
Old Conservative Fuddy Duddy John T
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
John,
Maybe you can't give a complete answer on a tractor board, but you sure came close!
Question: Why do you say "do not name family members as trustees"? Is that based on your experiences, or is there a legal reason not to do so?
Maybe you can't give a complete answer on a tractor board, but you sure came close!
Question: Why do you say "do not name family members as trustees"? Is that based on your experiences, or is there a legal reason not to do so?
Its NOT a legal reason, they can serve fine as a trusteee (and usually the one named) provided trustworthy. I said that cuz I understood the lady didnt want to trust a family member and feared a family squabble i.e. choose an impartial outsider with no vested interest such as a bank. Usually the small fee they charge is outweighed by their financial savvy and the net money they can earn for the client..... Good question, go to the head of the class, you had to be paying attention to all that stufffffff yayyyyyyyyyy
Now help me with tricity n the NEC as you have before cuz Im kinda rusty on that AC power stuff
JT
Now help me with tricity n the NEC as you have before cuz Im kinda rusty on that AC power stuff
JT
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
Thanks for your reply, John. I was reading your recommendation as a general one, no one that was specific to Jim's case. It got me thinking because of the way my mother-in-law's trust is set up.
I don't think you need much help with the double-E stuff! I've been away from it about as long as you have.
I don't think you need much help with the double-E stuff! I've been away from it about as long as you have.
As John T said, contact an attorney experienced in elder law. Contact AARP; they can provide you with a list of attorneys in your area with that type of experience.
We updated our wills last summer. Our attorney said that trusts are primarily an opportunity for attorneys to make more money, and were totally unnecessary in our situation. My cousin set up trusts through a bank - and the bank is milking money from the trusts with every kind of fee imaginable.
We updated our wills last summer. Our attorney said that trusts are primarily an opportunity for attorneys to make more money, and were totally unnecessary in our situation. My cousin set up trusts through a bank - and the bank is milking money from the trusts with every kind of fee imaginable.
chuck davis
Member
As a guy thats going through this type of situation as we speak, i can tell everyone that things can get ugly real quick.
Greed and entitlement issues start as soon as the funeral is over. I never thought i would see this in my family but i was wrong.
Without getting into specifics, when my dad passed his affairs were far from in order, and even though he had a will,with me as PR.As things turned out all of his disposable income was left to a certain relative who quickly deposited it in his/her bank account. Legal? Yes.
As a result his funeral has yet to be paid, as PR i am now responsible for getting the house and grounds cleaned up (new roof,30years of scrap steel and junk scattered over his acreage ). Account for and sell off his personal assets,deal with the bill collectors all the fun stuff.
Did i forget to mention this a 2 hour drive from my home.
I am sure there are much worse stories out there, but watching my family turn into a Jerry Springer episode over a few bucks sickens me.
The best advice is hire a good attorney, get it done right the first time. Pray you are not the designated as PR.
Greed and entitlement issues start as soon as the funeral is over. I never thought i would see this in my family but i was wrong.
Without getting into specifics, when my dad passed his affairs were far from in order, and even though he had a will,with me as PR.As things turned out all of his disposable income was left to a certain relative who quickly deposited it in his/her bank account. Legal? Yes.
As a result his funeral has yet to be paid, as PR i am now responsible for getting the house and grounds cleaned up (new roof,30years of scrap steel and junk scattered over his acreage ). Account for and sell off his personal assets,deal with the bill collectors all the fun stuff.
Did i forget to mention this a 2 hour drive from my home.
I am sure there are much worse stories out there, but watching my family turn into a Jerry Springer episode over a few bucks sickens me.
The best advice is hire a good attorney, get it done right the first time. Pray you are not the designated as PR.
Chuck, it may be too late now buttttttttttt generally speaking many assetts are made subject FIRST to some/certain creditors BEFORE whats left gets distributed. i.e. whats available for distribution is ONLY what remains AFTER certain debts are paid anddddddddd if something was paid that shouldnt have been, there are ways for creditors to go after the same !!!!!!!!!
As PR its your job (and the law requires) to collect n preserve the assets and pay any just claims and ONLY then to make distributions. If the Will granetd someone some money it wasnt correct for them to get at it, you are the one charged with and legally responsible to give it to them HOW DID THEY GET IT??????? (My guess is by non probate transfer like joint or POD checking right???)
Even if someone got money by operation of law like a joint checking a non probate transfer, its still possible for a creditor to get at that money.....
As I recall the prioroty for distribution of theres not enough money to go around is
FIRST IRS lol not a surprise,,,,,,,,second is Funeral home,,,,,,,I think attorney fees are right up there,,,,,,then medical n all that stuff,,,,,,,,,,finally the distributees
best wishes n good luck with it..
John T
As PR its your job (and the law requires) to collect n preserve the assets and pay any just claims and ONLY then to make distributions. If the Will granetd someone some money it wasnt correct for them to get at it, you are the one charged with and legally responsible to give it to them HOW DID THEY GET IT??????? (My guess is by non probate transfer like joint or POD checking right???)
Even if someone got money by operation of law like a joint checking a non probate transfer, its still possible for a creditor to get at that money.....
As I recall the prioroty for distribution of theres not enough money to go around is
FIRST IRS lol not a surprise,,,,,,,,second is Funeral home,,,,,,,I think attorney fees are right up there,,,,,,then medical n all that stuff,,,,,,,,,,finally the distributees
best wishes n good luck with it..
John T
TomH in PA
Well-known Member
Went through exactly what you describe a few years ago when an elderly aunt died. She had a will made up by a local lawyer. I was the executor but didn't know it until he tracked me down.
The lawyer took care of everything, collected his fee but most of that would've gone to a real estate agent if he hadn't handled the sale of her home anyway (plus he was a lot better negotiator than me). And stay away from financial consultants unless they're a tax lawyer or CPA.
The lawyer took care of everything, collected his fee but most of that would've gone to a real estate agent if he hadn't handled the sale of her home anyway (plus he was a lot better negotiator than me). And stay away from financial consultants unless they're a tax lawyer or CPA.
chuck davis
Member
John T, Well the funds were a checking account with several K involved and an Annuity that was in his /her name. I never had an issue with the Annuity but with several K in outstanding debt and a funeral to pay for snatching up every dime for personal gain just did'nt/has'nt set well with me.
I have an attorney as the property was in my dads name only. Also out of state.As a wise man once said- "this too shall pass".
I have an attorney as the property was in my dads name only. Also out of state.As a wise man once said- "this too shall pass".
Stan in Oly, WA
Well-known Member
Hi Dick,
Your attorney might be totally sincere and think he/she is only telling it like it is---and still not realize how much the way attorneys view the world influences the advice he/she offers.
A Revocable Living Trust can cost a fortune to create, or next to nothing, just like a will or anything else you pay an attorney to do. A will must be probated before the estate can be dispersed. Probate can be a bonanza for attorneys---particularly if the will is contested, but it's never cheap. Most states allow an individual to go through the probate process without an attorney (or claim that they do, at least), but it's beyond the capability of most people. Some states make it next to impossible to go through probate without an attorney, and it may not be allowed at all in some---I don't have that information.
When my wife's mother died ten years ago, my wife worked her way through probate by herself here in Washington State. Trying to probate some property her mother owned in Utah was beyond her considerable capability though. They protect their lawyers there. Anyway, my wife had three strikes against her: She was a person trying to not have to hire an attorney, she was not a Mormon, and she was a woman. She eventually dealt with 4 different lawyers there, trying to get a simple job done. Neither of us have ever witnessed such self-congratulatory incompetence as those four sorry human beings demonstrated. One of them was a woman, and she would have been the least able of the lot, but we gave her some consideration for not stealing anything. Ah, Utah.
My mother died last year. Her estate was held entirely in a Revocable Living Trust which I had created for her. (I am a licensed CPA in Washington State, so I'm not claiming that just anyone could, or should, do it themselves.) I was the successor trustee--the equivalent of executor of a will---and distribution of the money in her bank account, and later, from the sale of her house required only that I present a copy of the trust and a copy of the death certificate to the bank, and then to the real estate title company. No costs, no delays, no complications. Contrary to what what one previous responder said, inheritance through trust distribution is tax free to exactly the same extent as inheritance through a will. Neither one will circumvent estate tax if the size of the estate is greater than a specific amount (now more than a million dollars), and neither one interferes with the stepped-up basis of property that makes the amount of inheritance that working people usually get tax free.
There are specific benefits to using a will as the instrument to disperse the estate, just as there are specific benefits to doing it through a trust. You'll get more unbiased information cheaper by getting a book on estates covering wills and trusts from the library. Even with the best books it's not easy going, but you'll be a lot better off spending enough time that you finally understand it. After you get to that point you can shop around for an attorney or an accountant to do exactly, and only, what you want to do.
All the best, Stan
Your attorney might be totally sincere and think he/she is only telling it like it is---and still not realize how much the way attorneys view the world influences the advice he/she offers.
A Revocable Living Trust can cost a fortune to create, or next to nothing, just like a will or anything else you pay an attorney to do. A will must be probated before the estate can be dispersed. Probate can be a bonanza for attorneys---particularly if the will is contested, but it's never cheap. Most states allow an individual to go through the probate process without an attorney (or claim that they do, at least), but it's beyond the capability of most people. Some states make it next to impossible to go through probate without an attorney, and it may not be allowed at all in some---I don't have that information.
When my wife's mother died ten years ago, my wife worked her way through probate by herself here in Washington State. Trying to probate some property her mother owned in Utah was beyond her considerable capability though. They protect their lawyers there. Anyway, my wife had three strikes against her: She was a person trying to not have to hire an attorney, she was not a Mormon, and she was a woman. She eventually dealt with 4 different lawyers there, trying to get a simple job done. Neither of us have ever witnessed such self-congratulatory incompetence as those four sorry human beings demonstrated. One of them was a woman, and she would have been the least able of the lot, but we gave her some consideration for not stealing anything. Ah, Utah.
My mother died last year. Her estate was held entirely in a Revocable Living Trust which I had created for her. (I am a licensed CPA in Washington State, so I'm not claiming that just anyone could, or should, do it themselves.) I was the successor trustee--the equivalent of executor of a will---and distribution of the money in her bank account, and later, from the sale of her house required only that I present a copy of the trust and a copy of the death certificate to the bank, and then to the real estate title company. No costs, no delays, no complications. Contrary to what what one previous responder said, inheritance through trust distribution is tax free to exactly the same extent as inheritance through a will. Neither one will circumvent estate tax if the size of the estate is greater than a specific amount (now more than a million dollars), and neither one interferes with the stepped-up basis of property that makes the amount of inheritance that working people usually get tax free.
There are specific benefits to using a will as the instrument to disperse the estate, just as there are specific benefits to doing it through a trust. You'll get more unbiased information cheaper by getting a book on estates covering wills and trusts from the library. Even with the best books it's not easy going, but you'll be a lot better off spending enough time that you finally understand it. After you get to that point you can shop around for an attorney or an accountant to do exactly, and only, what you want to do.
All the best, Stan
rockyhawaii
Member
I set up a trust a few years ago, and it was explained this way: The "trust" means that there are lawyers whose job is to protect your assets, mostly from the tax man. Greedy relatives have a hard time getting through half a dozen specialists, but the government is the hungriest vulture of all. It will cost some money to set up, but I feel it was worth it for peace of mind.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
If I make it to being an old man, I might do things a bit differently. Hopefully, the last years of my life I will have nothing. I will give everything to my kids. I will sell them the house and tractors etc... and pay them rent from my SS check. I've raised my kids in a way that they will take care of me no matter what. If I have nothing when I die, then the gov't will get nothing. That's my goal.
I am certainly not!!!!!!!!!!!! I have known her for over 40 years and she never had kids, her husband is gone and her only living family is sisters out of state that never had anything to do with her until the last 6-8 months became real interested in her affairs. she wants the tenate that has rented the farm for a number of years to be left with the farm and water rights and then most likley will leave the church the remainer as they are the ones that take her to appt. come out the 10 miles and get her to church and back and I just help if she calls. I do not want or expect anything, and she does not want to lose control and at 89 years has been a nervous wreck when her sister has seemed so concerned about getting her into a rest home and taking over her finances. She has been so frightened that she does not know what to do and last week, was almost scamed out of 36,000.00 by a scam artist until she called me to look this paperwork over before she acted on it. If I or her other friends did not care about her, she would have been broke along time ago from the scam artist around the country.
Mike, I was under the impression that the trust has the step-up basis for real property and not the will. My wife and I have both a trust and a will. The will is called a pour-over will as all the little things go into it, like furniture, jewelery, household stuff, cars, etc. I think the limit is $60.000. We also have a health care directive in the Trust, which allows each to make health care decisions for the other in case of incapacitance. My wife has been declared medicaly incapacitated, so I can do all the legal things by signing for her, like health care decisions, selling or buying property, getting loans, etc. Without the directive, a judge would have to appoint someone guardian (could even be the county or state) and the guardian would have to keep records of spending and report to the judge. Selling property would need the judge's approval. All that is avoided with a health care directive. The Trust was $1200 in 1990. The lawyer was to get $5,000 on the death of the first spouse and $20,000 on the second to close the estate. Plus yearly "update fees". Probably higher now. I no longer subscribe to his plan, but the Trust is still in effect.
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