Loading Tires -- how full is full

[motorv8N]

Any help appreciated. Just bought a 51 Ferguson TEA20 and the previous owner told me he loaded the rear tires with calcium and water right to the top. Is this ok? I remember reading somewhere two thirds to the top was the max but cannot find that reference. Tires are Canadian made Astro Field Star 12.4-28, not sure of year.

 

[glennster]

i generally fill mine with the tire vale at about 11 oclock position, so the air space is about at the top of the rim. kind of hard to get the fluid much higher than that.if you need to add air, i like to bring the tire valve to the 12 oclock position to try and keep the chloride from running back in to the valve stem.

 

[Roy in georgia]

I filled mine up but I have tubes so it was easy to get them full put antifreeze in them but I live in central Ga. so the winter is not that bad on loaded tires. when the water pressure got them tight thats when I put the valve stem in got a little wet in the process.

 

[Iowa_tire_guy]

Also it is good to have an air cushion. Having the tire clear full is hard on the tire, tube and tractor.

 

[old]

If the tire is 100% full it will have problems but I also don't think you could fill one that full unless you used a pump to do so and even then doing so would be hard. If I remember right in the page about filling tires I send to people it tells you just how full they need to be. But since that page is from a 1935 owners manual I don't look at it very often. Drop me an e-mail if you want a copy of that page
Hobby farm

 

[buickanddeere]

The ideal amount of calcium chloride liquid ballast is zero. If you have a 2WD loader tractor than one is pretty stuck having to use liquid ballast.
Ideally just up to axle height with water/alcohol or beet pulp is ok. As previously stated, up to the valve stem level at 11 o'clock is max.

 

[Anonymous-0]

In the manual for my tractor it says weight when 100% full. I think even if the tire was filled full, there would be air space after inflating it. Dave

 

[Anonymous-0]

In my area we fill to the top of the rim. That leaves air cushion. Bought a new tractor that was 100% full and rode like crap. I let some out and made it ride much better.

 

[Anonymous-0]

It's my belief that you can fill the tires as full as you want. 1/4, 1/2, 2/3 etc. Put as much in as you need to get the weight you need. I don't think you could put too much in unless you really tried hard.. Dave.

 

[Mathias NY]

The rule of thumb I have always heard is to fill them high enough to cover the rim and valve stem. Calcium-Chloride is corrosive when exposed to air, so if any part of the rim (on tubeless tires) is exposed, it will rust. Similarly it will corrode the inside of the valve stem if it is not completely submerged.

I have no experience with loading a tire 50%. It would seem like that would cause a lot of sloshing and potentially make the tractor more unstable.

 

[buickanddeere]

If a tire is over filled. The cushion/flex is gone. You have now eliminated the advantages of a rubber tire. You now have the equivalent of a flat bare steel rim with a rubber chevron tread bolted on.
As for rust/oxidation of the steel rim with calcium chloride and tubeless tires? Covered or uncovered doesn't make any difference. Corrosion takes place until all available oxygen is used up.
As for using calcium chloride? That violates the fundamental laws of accident, incident,loss control.
Anybody in aviation, nuclear, military, transportation, medical or industrial accident investigation can attest to these following well known facts.
Here listed from A through E in order of effectiveness to avoid incidents.
Barrier Effectiveness Picture (Metafile)
As per N-MAN-08965-10000 A3.1:
The strongest barrier/control measure eliminates the hazard. The weakest barrier/control measure is dependent on an administrative barrier. Barriers/control measures shall be considered in the order listed:

(a) Elimination(removal, isolation)
(b) Substitution
(c) Engineering-

o controlling at the source
o along the pathway to the worker

(d) Personal Protective Equipment for the worker
(e) Administration-

o written safe work plan
o written rescue plan
o comprehensive written Pre Job Briefing

 

[Walt Davies]

I would say if the tire was filled while on the tractor then its impossible to to get full as once you pass the valve stem it will trap any air above that point. I set the valve stem at 12 O'clock and then fill it up with my little valve tool made for filling tires let he air off as you fill it until only water comes out and then put valve core in. You can take the pressure off by jacking the tire off the ground while filling it. then adjust the tire pressure with air to about 12 to 14 lbs.
To get a tire completely full you would have to take it off and lay it flat stem up so you can get all the air out.
Walt

 

[CWL]

Just a thought. If someone sucked a tube down with a vaccum the tub would be pretty well flat. If pumped up from there a person could fill the tube almost 100% with fluid. I have a little deal that uses an air chuck to suck tubes down with a veturi effect to make them easier to put in the tire while mounting. I'm not sure why someone would want that much fluid, but I can see how it might be done.

 

[Mathias NY]

To buickanddeere - I am confused...

Yes, corrosion will take place in the presence of oxygen. However the oxygen content of the CaCl solution is lower than that of the air that will be in the tire. Therefore the steel rim and valve stem will corrode much more slowly when fully submerged in the solution.

Are you saying that a Calcium-Chloride solution cannot be used to load a tire with? If so, there are a great number of people who would disagree with you.

 

[massey333]

No Walt,it's like CWL says You have to have a liquid pump that will pull a Vac.(pump air).We ran test tires for GY 30 yrs.and that was a requirement that they had tobe filled 100%.

 

[Anonymous-0]

If you go to the Vintage ads section over to the right, and search Allis Chalmers ads, you will find about 8 or 10 of them. At least one shows how much the tire should be loaded, which is just a little above the upper side of the rim. As A-C pioneered putting rubber tires on tractors, I'd go with what was shown in the ad.

 

[buickanddeere]

I'm wondering how your conclusions came to be?
Calcium Chloride salt can be used as a highly corrosive brine antifreeze solution.
I can't imagine why one would so closely court rim corrosion and ruined paint when other antifreeze compounds are so readily available. And cost so reasonable now and in future service costs.
The chart with points A through E is a proven common sense list of methods to avoid undesired incidents.
It's undeniable that the best way to avoid rim corrosion & paint damage from calcium chloride . Is to avoid using calcium chloride.
The only reason the crap is used todays is because it's what Pappy, Grand Pappy and Great Grand Pappy used. So "I" should use it too.
As for "However the oxygen content of the CaCl solution is lower than that of the air that will be in the tire. Therefore the steel rim and valve stem will corrode much more slowly when fully submerged in the solution".
What free oxygen there is in the calcium chloride salt/water solution. And what free oxygen in the airspace will both support fast corrosion for a few minutes or hours at most. Once the oxygen has been used making ferrous oxide, it's tightly held and is not available to support further corrosion.
So with the exception of new oxygen when the loaded tires are aired up. And tiny amounts of oxygen creeping in around or through the bead. Corrosion stops inside the perfect tubeless rim in hours.
I do know of a set rims that pinhole leaked with tubeless tires and salt ballast at 9 years. The rims had to be blasted clean & painted. Then tubes installed.

 

[motorv8N]

Thanks for all the replies folks. And to buick -- believe you me I hate the idea of that stuff sloshing around in there eating my rims, when other liquids would do just fine but the tractor came that way. The guy was so proud of how full he got them and all I could think of was what's the quickest way to empty em short of an ice pick...

So...how would one empty them and where do you get antifreeze or wiper fluid in bulk? Can I ever hope to be rid of all traces of the calcium or so I need new tubes for that? (first tractor...can you tell?)

 

[Anonymous-0]

If you want to drain them, remove the valve core, and lay on the ground, with the valve at about 1% lower than the rest of the wheel/tire combo. after dismounting the tire, any rust will be easily seen. I would put new tubes in, cause it just aint worth the effort to try and rinse old tubes. If you are going to re-ballast, use methanol, available at most bigger tractor tire dealers, or if you got the money, try the Rust Beeter product, made from sugar beet pulp.