Lowering The Front End

[Anonymous-0]

Hey everyone,

I'm building a 39 Farmall M Puller and I, like everyone want to get her as light as I can. My question is, as long as I'm going to put on a lighter front end, do I shorten it somehow also and bring the front of the tractor closer to the ground? Is there a big advantage in doing this? Some of the guys here have them dropped way down and some don't. I guess what I'm asking is, is it worth my time to do this? Thanks for any help.

 

[showcrop]

Hi 39, Don't worry about getting it lower. that is just a side effect of replacing the standard front with 14 inch wheels and tires and putting a pedestal from an H under it. Get that done and you will be not only lighter in the front but also lower. Good Luck, Kick JD butt. PS get it under 4500lbs.

 

[263 build]

i beleive it changes things. changes your foulcrum(sp?) helps plant your rear end.

 

[Anonymous-0]

263,

I was thinking the same thing in terms of the folcrum point. I would think that the more distance your front has to come up before overcoming your folcrum point the better.

On the otherhand, does it typicaly take more weight to keep your front end down then? (other than compensating for the lighter front)

What have you guys seen out there to drop the fronts on a Farmall M?

Thanks for the help.

 

[Anonymous-0]

It changes the location of the pivot point on the tire. its like moving the timing on a distributor,,, your trying to create an upwards draft on the hook point to lift the pan off the ground,,,, the nose angled down, will start the leverage earlier, and makes the nose actually lighter,,,, it pulls down harder on the hook point. When the tractor is inthe air,,,, the location of contact,, the point where the tire meets the ground is changed when the nose is pointed down,,, so it will lift and pull harder with the nose down a little. too much can be bad too,,,, Chad

 

[Anonymous-0]

I agree with Chad, i rake them some but not alot, usually a row crop with 500-15 front and 18.4 rears is dropped enough, when originally equipped with 600-16 and 12-38's

 

[Smarter than ChadBS]

So tell us again. If the point of hitching is in the same location but the front end has been lowered, how does "it pulls down harder on the hook point"?
Is this some more of ChadBS law of physics? Is it the same law that makes a high compression motor "suck harder"? Tell us, oh great one. We need a good laugh.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Now, why,, would I want to give you a hint to make your pedal tractor competitive at a pedal pull?

Im not gonna make this personal, its MY opinion, read it if you must.

Ive seen this work well at a deadweight pull. Now, I guess it dont get no older than that style of pulling right?? You take a utility tractor,,,say like a 656 IH,, put taller tires on the rear, smaller tires on the front, the tractor pulled harder and the front did not come up as high, and from the cange of the chassis sitting level, or flat with the ground,, to a nose dived tilt,, when the front of the tractor came up,, the lifting force was started early,, as soon as the front tires left the ground. Now when the chassis is up,, (front end off the ground) think about where the actual location of the tire in comparisson to where its making contact to the ground. Like the tire is a big ol clock, and 6 oclock is where its at when the chassis is sitting on all 4.

While the tractor is in the air,, does the actual contact area stay at "6 oclock", or does it move back to say, "25 minutes after the hour",,,, it moves back, and this is where a driver can see this and start building some momentum up, or in your case, pedal faster, and lift the load,,

Drawbar angle for those that hook the drawbar in the stock location and cut em off at spec,, if you drop the front bracket lower, (same thing as dropping the front end lower) You increase the lifting force at the hook point while the tractor is in the air, its all in the line of draft the correct chassis adjustments, drawbar angle, while the tractor is in the act of pulling, and if the front end isnt comming up at theend, your not pulling, your either spinning or your power stalling. Or, in your case, out of breath from all that pedaling. Pull one rear tire off, then place it on a safe block,, then jack up the front end,, say 10 inches,, then take a few steps back and look at the side view of the tractor,, look at the hitch, look at where the tire is meeting the ground and where the chassis is placing the weight... to do this, tie a string around the axle,,, and mark the locations at different front end hieghts.


Im glad your so smart. proper education pays off, stay in school, etc etc,, HA!! beat ya to it! LMAO!! ChadS

 

[dmarkt]

Actually, lowering the front end makes it heavier, and as it comes up, it gets lighter. The higher it comes up, the lighter it is. Can anyone tell me why or will I have to explain?

 

[Smarter than ChadBS]

No need to explain it to ChadBS. His laws of physic are different that the rest of the worlds.

 

[Smokin Joe]

ChadS,

I have a an IH 460 front on it now and with 18.4 x 38's on the rear, the nose does drop a little, and the front weight bar extends straight off the nose.

Above you stated that lowering the front weight bar is equal to lowering the nose. My question is, do you think I will see the same results if I was to make a new bar and only lower the weight bracket, or do I need to drop the nose of the tractor as well?

Thanks

 

[Anonymous-0]

If the front goes too high, it unloads the grip off the tires. Id say that range would be starting at 25-30 inches off the ground for it to unload. The "leverage" happens when the front end is on its way back down,,, but does not touch the ground,, once the front hits the ground, the weight trasnfer to the tire, is lost and it is likely to spin out.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Your talking about dropping the weight off the straight front weight bar and drop the weights below the frame rails, and yes, this has an effect on balance. All of our IH's have dropped front brackets,,, Id say this can keep the counter balance lower and create more downward force when the nose starts to come down and create lift on the hook point. I had mentioned dropping the location of the front of the drawbar to give the drawbar an upwards angle to the hook point. this has created more leverage on tractrs using a drawbar hitch instead of one not using a drawbar. Chad

 

[Anonymous-0]

My laws of physics are called "Poetry in Motion. A pulling tractor properly setup does create the phrase, Poetry in Motion. Cause its a beautiful sight to see.

Oh, and what does your comment have to do with tractor pulling?? You narked me out for asking an OT,, and you turn me in to support,,, now should I have to do the same to you??? For such a smart person, Id belive you would have a more creative approach to insult me, maybe you have a problem with words,,,, would ya like me to give ya a dictionary with a governor spring tied to it?? Put that on your pedal tractor,,, what a dangerous combination!!!! I sure hope you are a real tractor puller, and come to a pull that My equipment are present, and your in my class,,,, lets just seee how smart you really are on the track. Should I be afraid?? Only if you drive a JD B,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,LMAO!!!! Chad

 

[Anonymous-0]

Joe, my old 460H project taught me that they are heavy on the nose from the git go,,,,,, the wheelbase makes for a heavy front end, even with no weights on it. I was trying to run 3500-4000lbs with it,,,, I couldnt hook it to save my life,, as soon as the nose lifted, it spun out. Not enough weight on the rear axle to handle the engines torque. I had 15.5s on pressed steel,,, my front axle weighed 1140#s and my rear axle weighed 2485. So, I found a set of 16.9X34 on a set of cast iron oliver centers,, big, heavy centers,,, which brought my rear axle weight up to 3450,,, I was at 4500 empty now,,,,, my front still weighed 1140. Well, I went pulling,,, ran a 5000lb class,,, I could hook it alot better,, the nose came up and the tractor shot forward when the nose started to come down,,, and it acted like a jackahmmer,, up down up down,,, and everytime it came down, the chassis shot forward. A good thing!! I had the front end low,,, I belive the weight bracket was 19 inches off the ground, and the hitch was set at 20,,,, so added more front weight,,, and I had no long weight bar,, just a bracket that simulated the stock suitcase weight bracket,,,, maybe 20 inches forwards if that,,,,, and I got it to stand up on its rear tires, and hang there when pulling,,,, not eratic, just an easy up and a fast down, to get the best leverage off my hitch. I took my rear axle weight, and divided it into my front axle weight and came up with a ratio. This can be done when the chassis is emtpy, and get a beginning ratio,,, and then add weghts and re try the equasion, its my best way of remembering what worked on what tracks as far as a weight ratio from front to rear to get the best lift and balance. ChadS

 

[Smarter than ChadBS]

OH that was funny. You had 5 replies before they had time to answer. You were such a crybaby they had to lock the thread to keep you from crying even more. Maybe next time you won't come on here and start cussing about something you deserve.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Sure it was! I laughed and laughed bout it! They locked your thread too before I could say anything. So,, whats up??? Why are ya hassling me? ChadS

 

[Anonymous-0]

When you put the lighter front end on your tractor you reduce the gross weight .When you lower the front you increase the front axile weight.Ever drop a single axile trailer on the ground it is very heavy until you get it up close to level.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Thanks Brian, great explanation.

 

[Smokin Joe]

ChadS,

After reading all these posts about lowering the nose and weight brackets, I'm pretty sure I'm going to do it to my "M". Like I said before, I have a 460 pedistole(sp?) on her now. What is going to be the easiest way to drop the nose? I see Denny's has a light weight, shorter bolster. Do I just get one of those, or do I look for some new hubs, etc. Thanks

 

[D&Dservice]

Chad why do you let this guy get your goat, Like a couple school kids, ya know, they only pick on the ones that fight back!

 

[Anonymous-0]

IH Plow hubs,, 6 bolt, and adapt bearings to the M spindle. The Hubs work on the H, with a little shim on the outside bearing, the M will be bigger so it should work out just fine. I found the hubs on an old IH 6 bottom plow tail wheel. Look for a set of 3 X 15 rims, 6 bolt, old balers have these rims,,, and mount up a set of 4.00X15 tri rib tires. Should lighten it up around 75 lbs, and drop the nose about 4 inches by the tire swap alone. Id make a lower bolster if I had to,, out of thick wall tube and custom hubs,,, Hope this helps,, ChadS

 

[Anonymous-0]

Why dont you guys settle it on the track. My dad tells me that and I am still trying too get something that can win against him.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Dave, seen some bad storms hit over your way! My wife and I had seen the storms forming on radar,,, so we jumped in the car,, headed up to Wanatah to catch a glimpse. We got to Wanatah just as it was hitting north of rensaleer, and it was heading north east,, It went between Hamlet and Grovertown, almost deadset of Plymouth,, had to race in front of it a bit to cross its path to get away from it,,,,, but there was a tube on the ground for several miles in the Hamlet/groveretown/Plymouth areas by the same storm.. Was an awesome sight!! Hope things are good there, and ya didnt get hit by the storms. ChadS The person hassling me, wont come pull. parents wont let him/her take the pedal tractor out on the road!!! LOL!