Lug nut torque question?

[Tractorcedric]

Had a Ford dealer put new tires on the Jeep today. Tech ran the nuts down with a battery operated impact while jeep was off of the ground. I was watching to see if he would torque them. As I could look threw a window I saw the Jeep trying to roll forward as he torqued the right side wheels. He was a small guy and it sure looked like a lot of torque from were I was standing. Anyway when he got to the side were I could see him, he looked at his HIGH tech torque wrench and decided to reset it. He did not know that I was watching. I noticed that the Jeep moved a lot less as he tightened the left wheels. When he brought his work ticket to the service writer, I asked him why he changed the setting on his torque wrench. He said it was set at 130 ft. lbs and should have been 115 ft. lbs. The owners manual calls for 95 ft. lbs. The wheels are aluminum. What would you have done? I have been using a Snapon clicker torque wrench for 40 years. Hope this does not stir up too much of a stink!

 

[SVcummins]

I rattle em guttentie and call it good

 

[J Hamilton]

I would have shown them what the owners manual stated for torque and asked them to back them off and set it correctly

 

[rustred]

yep yep yep, those beginners with no clue how to torque stuff. i would have been in there so fast the service manager would be chasing me. i make it a point to watch what they are doing when possible ,i would be reaming the guy out myself. i am a ticketed mechanic and i can tell when some beginners dont know what they are doing. i have gotten in arguments with some of these clowns also. could type 1/2 a page here. should have called the service manager and pointed this out and made him loosen and retorque while watching as that is what i would have done. i have been chased out of the shop area just for going in and looking at my brakes. i just tell them its ok i know your compensation rules and saw your sign and have been in your position but never chased anybody out of the shop when they came to me working on their vehicle. and yes things have got a lot tighter now. and i also been using a torque wrench for getting close to fifty years.

 

[Gambles]

My local shop does that. Two days ago, I tried to take a tire off with a cross wrench and I couldnt do it. At 6 ft 6 inches, Im no weakling. Good thing The wife didnt have a flat with it. It took a two foot cheater bar to break the lug nuts. Ive had so much bad luck with my locally owned tire shop, Ive stopped going there. I use a torque wrench for lug nuts.

 

[MJMJ]

On my long list of things to be concerned about, having the exact right torque on lug nuts is wayyyyy down at the bottom. Retorque yourself if you think it matters. Im not sure you expect the guy to do if you dont tell him UP FRONT what torque you want. He cant read minds or be expected to just know what every vehicle calls for.

 

[Pete in Holland MI]

Over torquing can lead to snapped studs and a wheel chasing you down the highway. Nearly all fasteners on a car have a torque spec. Shouldn't be your responsibility to look for it. Future reference, ask that the fasteners be torqued to OEM specs.

 

[rustred]

ooh my, that is company policy in a tire shop to torque all wheels. then they tell u to come back for a retorque after about 60 miles. plus
he dont read minds and better know the torque for each vehicle he is working on. they have charts in front of their noses to look at for all
the different torques on wheels. aluminium wheels are fussy. its not like the old 65 chevy tightem up and good.

 

[rustred]

ya maybe on that old white 2 ton chevy you can rattle them up guttentite. its not the procedure in any tire shop.

 

[Janicholson]

The school bus I was riding in had both left rear tires break the Bud Wheel lugs and fall off catastrophically. The bus was launched into the air about 6 feet before scraping to a halt 100 feet down the road. The bus driver's son had tightened them with a torque multiplier to 95% OF their tensile strength. Not good. Jim

 

[Russ from MN]

I would of had them backed off and re-torqued to the proper amount! I do my own rotation, and I put a little anti-seize on the studs, so I torque them a little less than recommended. I know the anti-seize isn't recommended but I've never had one come off, but if I need to change one on the road I will be able to.

 

[redforlife]

Is what bothers me, is the fact he used an air gun first, seconded by checking with a torque wrench without even looking to see what it was set at in the beginning.
Buzzing down with air gun is ok. But hammering down tight is not ok. Using the torque wrench to finish tightening is a must, but needs to be preset first. If torque wrench clicks without doing any nut turning, then air wrench put it on to tight. Thats why you don't hammer them on with air wrench.
Kind of one of those deals, where if you want it done right, you probably better just do it yourself. A ford dealership is probably not going to have thier top mechanic changing tires. Probably goinf to have thier newbie low man on the ladder doing that. I know you don't expect that at a dealerships. But it is there like anywhere's else. It's just what you run into.
Not sure that I would of taken a Jeep to a Ford dealer if I was going to be that picky about it.

 

[Traditional Farmer]

They definitely need to be torqued correctly on newer style wheels,he may have already done some damage by getting them too tight.My one man tire shop I got to torques every lug and makes sure he's getting the torque right.

 

[buickanddeere]

(quoted from post at 21:22:30 12/18/21) Had a Ford dealer put new tires on the Jeep today. Tech ran the nuts down with a battery operated impact while jeep was off of the ground. I was watching to see if he would torque them. As I could look threw a window I saw the Jeep trying to roll forward as he torqued the right side wheels. He was a small guy and it sure looked like a lot of torque from were I was standing. Anyway when he got to the side were I could see him, he looked at his HIGH tech torque wrench and decided to reset it. He did not know that I was watching. I noticed that the Jeep moved a lot less as he tightened the left wheels. When he brought his work ticket to the service writer, I asked him why he changed the setting on his torque wrench. He said it was set at 130 ft. lbs and should have been 115 ft. lbs. The owners manual calls for 95 ft. lbs. The wheels are aluminum. What would you have done? I have been using a Snapon clicker torque wrench for 40 years. Hope this does not stir up too much of a stink!

I witnessed a torquing disaster where newton meters and lb feet were mixed up . Broken fasteners in a sensitive industry .

 

[SDE]

I torqued the nuts to 100 on my son's impala. I re torqued them a few days later. When I took them off two weeks ago. I could have gotten a couple of the nuts off with a pliers. They were loose. I think I will continue to check them more often.

 

[john in la]

Every bolt ever made has a torque specification.
So do you use or expect to be used; a torque wrench on every bolt??
Or do you tighten the bolt to what feels good and call it good enough.

Yes you can break off or strip out lug bolts and nuts.
But if you are breaking half inch bolts off from over tightening you really need to just give your wrenches away and pay someone to do your mechanic work.
And the lug nuts should not be loose enough your wife can change the tire.

I'm with SV.
Rattle them up with a half inch drive air wrench and call it good enough.
If the tires are big and have bigger lug bolts break out the one inch drive air wrench.

Some of you guys are so gullible.
Torquing steel rims and changing oil at 3000 miles.
I bet you even got a can of touch up paint in case you get a scratch in the bed of your pickup.

 

[SVcummins]

If a person didnt read the book right that could be so bad

 

[caterpillar guy]

I don't worry about torquing bolts to much unless it is on something like bolts inside engines or transmissions. Lot of work to get to them. Wheel bolts just tighten them up till they feel right and go. IF Budd wheels crack or break it is because the inside wheel was not tightened up fully before the outside one was put on and tightened up. Allowing the one to work and wiggle. For hub piloted wheels I wire brush the hub and grease all bolts or nuts and sometimes both. Never had one come loose in 50 plus years and have only had to replace one stud due to bad threads. I have changed studs due to rusted threads so they would not tighten or needed longer ones for duals.

 

[M-MAN]

Years ago tire shops here used torque bars on the impact. They were color coded. Haven't seen one used in several years. I have never seen a tire shop or dealer pull out a torque wrench and use it on the lug nuts. I don't do it myself either. I use a 4 way for final tightening.

 

[Traditional Farmer]

My tire guy say there is not a lot of room for error on some lugs these days,too loose the wheel comes off,too tight the stud wrings off,He uses the torque wrench to be able to say he did per the specs if something happens.Also some wheels will warp supposedly if over tightened or not tightened evenly.

 

[jm.]

John I love the one about the paint , I am like you and I like everyone on here but I just do not understand how some go thru life. If torque on wheel studs was my biggest worry I sure would have a simple life. I have been on the other side. Shop hires the best he can find, kid did back off the wrench some, so he appeared to be concerned but tighten the wheels. No reason to make a big deal out of it. Life goes on.

 

[Carlmac 369]

(quoted from post at 22:27:59 12/18/21) I rattle em guttentie and call it good

Not surprising.

 

[Mike(NEOhio)]

My local independent tire shop uses torque wrenches regularly.

 

[showcrop]

Some people have small lives, some have a lot going on.

 

[Gene Davis (Ga.)]

I watched a guy once that said,tighten em then till they squeal and then one more round He broke all the lugs off the hub of the 1940 Ford car he was putting the tire on.

 

[fixerupper]

(quoted from post at 19:37:55 12/18/21) The school bus I was riding in had both left rear tires break the Bud Wheel lugs and fall off catastrophically. The bus was launched into the air about 6 feet before scraping to a halt 100 feet down the road. The bus driver's son had tightened them with a torque multiplier to 95% OF their tensile strength. Not good. Jim

Jim the same thing happened to a bus I was riding and it was the left duals too. The bus was a 1956 Ford, I was in grade school. The bus did not launch though, the left side merely dropped to the ground and we slid to a stop.

 

[buickanddeere]

Anyone who does not use a torque wrench on important fasteners. . They suffer from an over estimation of their personal ability . Along with a lack of understanding basic physics and metallurgy .
It takes less time to use a torque wrench than it does to deal with broken components , costs ,injuries or death .

 

[Bill(Wis)]

You're just flat wrong but you don't know it. If someone takes your kind of advice they could end up being dead wrong. I would try to explain it but I doubt you'd listen. Others, please don't listen to what John is urging you to do.

 

[timcasbolt]

(quoted from post at 11:38:59 12/19/21) My tire guy say there is not a lot of room for error on some lugs these days,too loose the wheel comes off,too tight the stud wrings off,He uses the torque wrench to be able to say he did per the specs if something happens.[b:44a5b20266]Also some wheels will warp supposedly if over tightened or not tightened evenly[/b:44a5b20266].

That applies to all aluminum wheels.

 

[GordoSD]

Better yet, rattle one up and check the torque with a clicker. Adjust air pressure on air to desired torque.

 

[GordoSD]

Your cheap air gun can torque lug nuts as high as 125 lbs. A good battery Milwalkee up to 150. Bet have a TW nearby if you are working on my wheels.

 

[DoubleR]

I use a battery impact with a lighter setting then double check with my torque wrench. Everything gets 90 lbs car, truck, trailers, wagons, farm equipment etc. I've never had a related problem.

 

[1206SWMO]

I dont use an air impact and I have never torqued a wheel in my entire life....I have never lost a wheel off nor have I ever twisted a lug off...I just use good common sense when tightening and often check them after 20 miles.....I once did twist a lug off on my Ford Ranger where the local tire shop had way over tightened them with an air impact....I had to stand on a cheater pipe to break all the lug nuts loose.

 

[buickanddeere]

(quoted from post at 11:35:10 12/19/21) I dont use an air impact and I have never torqued a wheel in my entire life....I have never lost a wheel off nor have I ever twisted a lug off...I just use good common sense when tightening and often check them after 20 miles.....I once did twist a lug off on my Ford Ranger where the local tire shop had way over tightened them with an air impact....I had to stand on a cheater pipe to break all the lug nuts loose.

Thank You for telling how much superior you are above the the mere mortals here that use a torque wrench to know the tension on the fasteners is correct.
Try your attitude in the manufacturing, motor vehicle assembly, aviation, military, transportation or nuclear industry and see how long you last.

 

[Carlmac 369]

(quoted from post at 23:18:01 12/18/21) On my long list of things to be concerned about, having the exact right torque on lug nuts is wayyyyy down at the bottom. Retorque yourself if you think it matters. Im not sure you expect the guy to do if you dont tell him UP FRONT what torque you want. [b:79e114f713]He cant read minds or be expected to just know what every vehicle calls for.[/b:79e114f713]

Horsecrap. If he's working in a shop dealing with the public that is exactly what he's expected to know.

If he doesn't know he's expected to find out and proceed accordingly.

If he doesn't do that then he should be out on his a$$.

 

[moresmoke]

Im not going to tell my wife she shouldnt be able to change her own tire either!

 

[V35B]

I wonder how many vehicles you pass on the road daily have accurately torques wheels?

 

[Tractorcedric]

I was afraid this would happen! I did not want to start a young war about this. Like I said I have been around mechanical things all my life. I have seen chains break that had met their limit. And I have seen things that were poorly designed hold up really well. I have even noticed on this site recently, many pictures of tractors and such that got broken in the middle. The thing for me is that people with a lot more education than me design things to last or they go out of business. I think that everyone would agree that if your wife and kids were coming back from Grama's and the right front wheel separated from the vehicle at 70 MPH it would be a bad thing. Notice I said your wife not just mine! My point is that if Chrysler engineers recommend that the lug nuts on the Jeep be torqued to 95 ft. lbs. there must be a reason for that. When I am building, modifying or retrofitting something, and I do that a lot! I use the best used bolts I have on hand. Knowing that no one's life will be at risk. I know that the wheel studs on the right side of my Jeep have been subjected to a torque of 40% more than recommended by the manufacturer. The young man that put the new tires on is a good hard working guy. Maybe I should have read my owners manual and requested the nuts be torqued to 95? Bottom line is that I am responsible for my own safety. I think I will ask to meet with the store manager and see what he says. After all I bet his wife drives a car that has the tires rotated in the stores shop also.
?

 

[SVcummins]

The only set of duals I ever lost was the one the shop used for torque wrench on

 

[timcasbolt]

(quoted from post at 14:02:53 12/19/21) Better yet, rattle one up and check the torque with a clicker. Adjust air pressure on air to desired torque.

We tried that in an industrial setting. We were trying to speed up production by not having to put a torque wrench on a bunch of bolts that all needed to have the same tightness. There was too much variation from one bolt to another to achieve the desired results. This was with good equipment being used by good workers, so we abandoned the project, and went in a different direction.

 

[Carlmac 369]

(quoted from post at 14:29:48 12/19/21) I was afraid this would happen! I did not want to start a young war about this. Like I said I have been around mechanical things all my life. I have seen chains break that had met their limit. And I have seen things that were poorly designed hold up really well. I have even noticed on this site recently, many pictures of tractors and such that got broken in the middle. The thing for me is that people with a lot more education than me design things to last or they go out of business. I think that everyone would agree that if your wife and kids were coming back from Grama's and the right front wheel separated from the vehicle at 70 MPH it would be a bad thing. Notice I said your wife not just mine! My point is that if Chrysler engineers recommend that the lug nuts on the Jeep be torqued to 95 ft. lbs. there must be a reason for that. When I am building, modifying or retrofitting something, and I do that a lot! I use the best used bolts I have on hand. Knowing that no one's life will be at risk. I know that the wheel studs on the right side of my Jeep have been subjected to a torque of 40% more than recommended by the manufacturer. The young man that put the new tires on is a good hard working guy. Maybe I should have read my owners manual and requested the nuts be torqued to 95? Bottom line is that I am responsible for my own safety. I think I will ask to meet with the store manager and see what he says. After all I bet his wife drives a car that has the tires rotated in the stores shop also.
?

Well said.

 

[Phil-mar Farms]

I had a similar situation with my Dodge van. I couldnt break the nuts loose with my breaker bar until I used the handle of the floor jack as a cheater. I think that the techs with the air wrenches have never done it by hand or had to undo one of their torque jobs

 

[Hobo,NC]

I think a loose wheel complaint is unacceptable all you can do is hang your head and hope all ends well no excuse for it.

I had a dual loose wheel complaint from that point on I lay on them good.

I had a 70's chevy pick up complaint in the end it had the wrong rims on it the center hub in the wheel was to small I still should have caught it the first time.

A guy calls he's out of town with a loose wheel I told him to have it fixed send me the bill he never returned. Some years later my son dropped off his van for me to sale I serviced it and rotated the tires he had installed the lug nuts on backwards. I found the answer to that complaint and thought how blessed I was that was that was only complaint out of the wheels he touched.

There is more to it than the lugs a lot can go wrong. I make sure the wheels fit and run up even I lower the car till the wheels just touch the ground and manually finish up the job. If you get a hub centric wheel off it never goes well. Custom wheels yuk euro wheels yuk yuk you know they are waiting to get ya.