M rings

[grandpa Love]

Got our new M in the shop, head off, motor took some work, but it's now unstuck. I poured a couple ounces of motor oil on top of the pistons and it leaked past over night. Rings stuck? Drop oil pan, unbolt rods, push piston out and inspect? Then put everything back exactly how it came out and torque rod bolts? Wanting to learn something new.

 

[rustred]

its quite possible the rings will be stuck. take note of the front of the piston, as they go in one way. after unbolting the rod caps its a good idea to slide some rubber hose over the rod bolts to protect he crank from nicks. them threads are sharp and can nick a crank quite easily. i just use the hammer handle on the con rod end to push the pistons out.. keep your caps in order as they only go on one way and each rod has matching caps, u cannot swap caps. and pistons stay with the cylinder they came out of. then once the pistons are out you can start your evaluation of the situation. there is quite a bit to check out. to may as well do this in steps as you go. no sense writing a manual here all at once . once u have pistons out , post the pictures of them and the rod brgs ,and can give u more info on what to be looking for and to check. which will be pistons condition for wear , including the ring land wear and wrist pin wear, and cylinder wear. and with this new forum everything is documented in one topic in order as u go without starting new posts all the time. i am going by your statement "wanting to earn something new". not saying you have to replace everything new in an old tractor , but can show show you what u need to know in steps as u proceed. it is also a good idea to check your rod brg. clearance now with the used brgs to actually know what clearance you have. so till the next chapter good luck.

 

[grandpa Love]

its quite possible the rings will be stuck. take note of the front of the piston, as they go in one way. after unbolting the rod caps its a good idea to slide some rubber hose over the rod bolts to protect he crank from nicks. them threads are sharp and can nick a crank quite easily. i just use the hammer handle on the con rod end to push the pistons out.. keep your caps in order as they only go on one way and each rod has matching caps, u cannot swap caps. and pistons stay with the cylinder they came out of. then once the pistons are out you can start your evaluation of the situation. there is quite a bit to check out. to may as well do this in steps as you go. no sense writing a manual here all at once . once u have pistons out , post the pictures of them and the rod brgs ,and can give u more info on what to be looking for and to check. which will be pistons condition for wear , including the ring land wear and wrist pin wear, and cylinder wear. and with this new forum everything is documented in one topic in order as u go without starting new posts all the time. i am going by your statement "wanting to earn something new". not saying you have to replace everything new in an old tractor , but can show show you what u need to know in steps as u proceed. it is also a good idea to check your rod brg. clearance now with the used brgs to actually know what clearance you have. so till the next chapter good luck.

Thanks rustred..... Wife already dropped the oil pan this morning before we had to dress for church.... I'm betting pistons are out this afternoon

 

[casecollectorsc]

Thanks rustred..... Wife already dropped the oil pan this morning before we had to dress for church.... I'm betting pistons are out this afternoon

If the rings are in good shape you can re-use them. Make sure you hone the cylinder before re-assy.

 

[CPeter]

You will probably want to cut the ring ridge out before you try to remove the pistons. If you don't do this, there is a good chance of breaking the rings and/or damaging the pistons.
Peter

 

[wore out]

If the rings are in good shape you can re-use them. Make sure you hone the cylinder before re-assy.

Yep, you can "always" put the old rings back in, but whether they seal well is another matter.

And, if the rings are badly stuck/carboned it MAY not be possible to loosen then without breaking some.

 

[rustred]

Thanks rustred..... Wife already dropped the oil pan this morning before we had to dress for church.... I'm betting pistons are out this afternoon

do you have green plastiqauge? and i suppose u have not done the brg. check either with plastiqauge? its important to know what clearance you are at now. its highly unlikely u will be reusing the old brgs or rings for sure. unbolt the caps one at a time. lay a strip of plastiqauge across the brg and torque it back up to spec, then remove the cap and match your flattened strip to the gauge . guessing it will be around .0025 to .003 with the wear of brg and crank. as that is towards the max end. mark everything on paper. you need to know your rod torque for this procedure.

 

[grandpa Love]

do you have green plastiqauge? and i suppose u have not done the brg. check either with plastiqauge? its important to know what clearance you are at now. its highly unlikely u will be reusing the old brgs or rings for sure. unbolt the caps one at a time. lay a strip of plastiqauge across the brg and torque it back up to spec, then remove the cap and match your flattened strip to the gauge . guessing it will be around .0025 to .003 with the wear of brg and crank. as that is towards the max end. mark everything on paper. you need to know your rod torque for this procedure.

Pictures..... Rusted, stuck, now some broken..... No ridge at the top of cylinders

 

[grandpa Love]

do you have green plastiqauge? and i suppose u have not done the brg. check either with plastiqauge? its important to know what clearance you are at now. its highly unlikely u will be reusing the old brgs or rings for sure. unbolt the caps one at a time. lay a strip of plastiqauge across the brg and torque it back up to spec, then remove the cap and match your flattened strip to the gauge . guessing it will be around .0025 to .003 with the wear of brg and crank. as that is towards the max end. mark everything on paper. you need to know your rod torque for this procedure.

Wish I had read this before re pulled the piston

 

[grandpa Love]

You will probably want to cut the ring ridge out before you try to remove the pistons. If you don't do this, there is a good chance of breaking the rings and/or damaging the pistons.
Peter

Lucky no ridge

 

[grandpa Love]

Wish I had read this before re pulled the piston

Bearing

 

[rustred]

Pictures..... Rusted, stuck, now some broken..... No ridge at the top of cylinders

wow, i see u hired a mechanic ! u better buy her some nice coveralls ! she is gonna get dirty ok, so them parts need to be cleaned up in varsol or whatever u use, oops she uses. look at the piston skirts for wear. remove a compression ring and stick in the bottom of one sleeve and measure the ring end gap. ring end gap is .003 for every inch of cyl. bore. example .003 x 3 inch bore equals .009 end gap. so if you have say over .010 of gap at the bottom them rings are worn. the sleeve does not wear at the bottom. sleeves wear on a taper, wider at the top than the bottom. then do the same at the top and see how much more clearance you have. that is you sleeve wear. best doing this with a new ring. check your wrist pins for wear also. rock the rod side ways back and forth, any movement u have wear. tight is good. do not clean them pistons with a wire brush. u need a ring groove cleaner or use an old broken ring. remove all carbon in the grooves. hard to see them brgs for shape but it hardly pays to reuse them either. can check your clearance after with the new brgs. get everything all shiny looking . and clean the cylinders good also then can look in there and have a looky. then give it a light deglazing. more to come later.

 

[grandpa Love]

wow, i see u hired a mechanic ! u better buy her some nice coveralls ! she is gonna get dirty ok, so them parts need to be cleaned up in varsol or whatever u use, oops she uses. look at the piston skirts for wear. remove a compression ring and stick in the bottom of one sleeve and measure the ring end gap. ring end gap is .003 for every inch of cyl. bore. example .003 x 3 inch bore equals .009 end gap. so if you have say over .010 of gap at the bottom them rings are worn. the sleeve does not wear at the bottom. sleeves wear on a taper, wider at the top than the bottom. then do the same at the top and see how much more clearance you have. that is you sleeve wear. best doing this with a new ring. check your wrist pins for wear also. rock the rod side ways back and forth, any movement u have wear. tight is good. do not clean them pistons with a wire brush. u need a ring groove cleaner or use an old broken ring. remove all carbon in the grooves. hard to see them brgs for shape but it hardly pays to reuse them either. can check your clearance after with the new brgs. get everything all shiny looking . and clean the cylinders good also then can look in there and have a looky. then give it a light deglazing. more to come later.

I think we will order a set of standard bearings.... Mic the j

 

[grandpa Love]

Not sure what happened to one of my replies, it appears that 90% if what I typed didn't post? Including half of a word . We measured the rod journals in multiple spots, readings from 2.249-2.251, standard is 2.250..... sounds like we are close. Next issue, a JD M Facebook group has several folks telling us that the bearings are impossible to get right now, apparently no one has any. What is the issues with re using the bearings? The crank appears to be smooth. The bearings have mostly small visible lines and one has a copper line showing.

 

[casecollectorsc]

Not sure what happened to one of my replies, it appears that 90% if what I typed didn't post? Including half of a word . We measured the rod journals in multiple spots, readings from 2.249-2.251, standard is 2.250..... sounds like we are close. Next issue, a JD M Facebook group has several folks telling us that the bearings are impossible to get right now, apparently no one has any. What is the issues with re using the bearings? The crank appears to be smooth. The bearings have mostly small visible lines and one has a copper line showing.

Not like it is a 150 hp engine that is going to run hard every day...think I would ring it and hone the cylinders and run it. New 30 wt oil will make a big difference over what was in it.

 

[grandpa Love]

Not like it is a 150 hp engine that is going to run hard every day...think I would ring it and hone the cylinders and run it. New 30 wt oil will make a big difference over what was in it.

Thanks..... Like most antique tractors this will probably get a few hours of run time a year.

 

[rustred]

Not sure what happened to one of my replies, it appears that 90% if what I typed didn't post? Including half of a word . We measured the rod journals in multiple spots, readings from 2.249-2.251, standard is 2.250..... sounds like we are close. Next issue, a JD M Facebook group has several folks telling us that the bearings are impossible to get right now, apparently no one has any. What is the issues with re using the bearings? The crank appears to be smooth. The bearings have mostly small visible lines and one has a copper line showing.

first thing , that is why i wanted to know the old brg clearance . and need a close up of what they look like. keep them in exact order also. new ideal measurement is .0015. if you have say .003 on these old used ones then u are pretty much max wear. if you have .004-.005 you need to replace them. need to keep hunting. did u try the john deere dealer ? get the number off the back of the brg. on undersize brgs. it will have the undersize stamped on them. brgs can only be reused within reason. and thicker oil can only do so much. so show me the old brgs for now then can decide if to put them in to get the actual clearance , it still can be done with the cleaned pistons and no rings.

 

[teddy52food]

Those bearings are imbedded with dirt. Replace them. Make sure you clean up everything. Check the mains & if they look like the rods, replace them too. Clean out the holes in the crank too.