M sn break

[DeltaRed]

I have a '50 M with a magneto and no hydralics. I would like to put on a distributor and a live pump. I dont want to break a cam gear. I think that sometime in '50 the factory started putting in the heavier gear. Dont know if mine is early or late.However,the tractor has a Hiesler power steering pump mounted in the mag drive.Dont know if that means anything or not...So,does anyone know where/when the switch occured? Thanks,Steve.

 

[Janicholson]

Thinking out loud not guaranteed! The bolt pattern for the drive would be the correct spacing for the live pump if the gear was correct. Even then the strongest gear is the callout replacement gear from a 450 (I think). Jim

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

If I'm not mistaken, IH also switched over to supplying the battery ignition from the factory in 50, round about the same time.

I suspect that your magneto is an indication that it is too early to have the updated cam gear and proper bolt spacing for the factory IH pump.

 

[used red MN]

See the linked post, D Slater says essentially the only way to be certain is to look at the PN on the back side of the gear to see if the suffix is correct. If you click Modern View on the linked Classic post you can see the original question by Sinkholeroad but there is no other replies on the thread there.
Previous YT post

 

[rustred]

as it is now the hyd. pump will not fit your bolt spacing . and also pretty sure you dont have the upgrade. best is to find a super engine then change the front timing cover over along with the gear and dist. and pump.

 

[glennster]

iirc, in guy fays book on the letter series, the very late m, ie 1952 had the upgrade timing gear cover and the better camshaft drive gear. also a gear driven service meter was made available too. m and w came out with a live hydraulic kit that could be installed on the earlier m tractor. it did not have the upgrade cam gear and many failed. in order to install the pump on the old style cover, a bolt was put in the upper outer mounting hole for the pump and then cut off flush. then you needed to re drill and tap the mounting hole. it was kind of tricky as you drilled part of the bolt that you just installed. i installed this kit on my 1948 m. centering the drill was done by mounting the pump and then using a sleeve to center the drill. there was also a plate to convert the belly pump to a reservoir. as i have a loader on the tractor, the loader frame is the reservoir. i will post a few pictures and hope this helps. i also learned that the w9 has the early cover and the live pump mounting needs to be updated too. i have the pics on my phone so i will add the separately. so delta red, you can either change out the front cover asem to add the live pump or plug and relocate the mounting hole. change the cam gear. mine eventually did fail and i ended up replacing the gear.

 

[glennster]

here is my late 1952 m. it has the updated timing cover and also has the gear driven service meter

 

[glennster]

here is my 1848 m with the aftermarket m and w live pump you can see the different outer bolt. that is the location you need to drill and retap

 

[glennster]

here is my 1942 m with a delco distributor upgrage from the magneto. some may prefer the magneto. to each his own, or as we used to say at the dragstrip. run what you brung

 

[glennster]

just for giggles, the w9 distributor. btw they are all working girls, so they need a bath.

 

[tn terry t]

is the hour meter a give away that the engine has the upgraded gear? my M has that meter i think its a 51 thanks in advance number 286255

This post was edited by tn terry t on 12/07/2023 at 06:59 pm.

 

[tn terry t]

[/img:e74817e590] i havent loaded a picture in a long time done forgot how

 

[tn terry t]

 

[used red MN]

Glennster, not an attack on you just trying to convey accurate information. That is not an M&W pump on your 48 M. That is an IH original style Pesco pump, see CNHI parts catalog in the 1st link. The fly-cut looking notch above the bolt head with the washers on it is an identifier of a Pesco pump. An M&W pump is shown in the 2nd link. The plumbing on those usually runs back over the top of the distributor. My 48 M has a live pump like yourse but I think it is a Thompson pump. I think it came in a kit from Charlynn, it has a special Charlynn conversion plate with a bottom connection that bolts to on belly pump after you remove the pump unit. This gives you the belly pump as a reservoir that has a higher capacity. Glenn, BTW your M needs a valve cover gasket.
Farmall 400 Pesco hydraulic pump

M&W live pump for a Farmall

 

[glennster]

that is the new style cover, so the pump should fit.

 

[fastfarmall]

The hour meter was a option from the factory,, but it is a late 51 M .

 

[D Slater]

Never able to be sure about gear change. No sure serial break for a M found. Suspect IH did it like when some other parts were improved and used up stock in less critical applications. Then some engines were overhauled multiple times and IH info to dealers recommended checking and replacing if backlash was out of spec. First gear improvement info found by me was on a w-6 engine number 29137, that would be in August 1950. But a engine driven pump was offered for W series first. Old parts books and print dates have some lag to printing. Also need to make sure not a revised one. Best I can say is M parts book printed in 4-30-52 shows the same part number as other M. One printed 9-26-52 shows the first update part number. Would need to check for sure but think the one before that was printed in later 51. Another gear improvement started during C-264 engines in 400 series tractors and became the last replacement part for M up.

 

[D Slater]

(reply to post at 19:52:39 12/07/23)

an't be sure what gear you have but sold a pump to fellow to use on a 51 M with engine number over 228082, told him he better have a relief set below normal in case of gear. Came back couple of months later looking for a cam gear. When questions were ask he said control valve relief would only go down to around 1500 PSI. Gear may have failed anyway but it had the same gear as most M. Your M serial is high enough to have correct bolt pattern for IH pump. Serial 286255 probably has engine serial 273255. Hour meter attachments were made for both front cover ignition drive bolt patterns.

 

[tn terry t]

(quoted from post at 08:33:13 12/08/23) that is the new style cover, so the pump should fit.[/qquote] wow that s great thank you guys for the information may just give it hydraulic face lift. I put a live system on my ole h close to 20 years ago with power steering I ve not had a moments problem out of it. Thanks again

 

[glennster]

used red, that was the pump that came with the kit. i bought it from my neighbor many years ago.i got a char lynn power steering kit from him too.must have switched pumps in the kit. i still have the belly pump plate to convert it to a reservoir,, but never used it. the leaky valve cover gives it patina, obviously increasing collector value! lol!,