Manifold Sealant

[Anonymous-0]

I am a rookie, not only on tractors but any kind of engine repair. I need to replace my manifold on my 8N.

On 10/8/08 "Dan" said to use "Permatex ultra copper high temp sealant on both sides of the gasket". I have been to TSC and many auto parts stores. The only thing they carry is a gasket maker (not sealant) with that name, it is rated at up to 700 degrees. Many auto parts store employees do not think it is rated high enough for manifold use. Is that what Dan is referring to or does another product exist with a similar name? If so where can I find it?

 

[Dan]

Sounds like you found the right one. Reading from my package:

"Permatex sensor safe Ultra Copper High Temp RTV Silicone Gasket Maker"

It does say it is good up to 700 degrees on the package.

Dan

 

[Dell (WA)]

Z99......Permatex, the sloppy shadetree mechanics friend. I won't have it on mine, but thats my opinion.

As fer its temperature rating, yer manifold gaskets are "cooled" by yer engine block. Which is cooled by yer radiator water. Which is temperature controlled by the 160F thermostat. And the question is 700F rating good enuff for exhaust manifold? And yer answer is???

The real reason for puckey on exhaust gasket is pitted block around the exhaust ports. You NEED to seal to prevent more erosion and burning out of yer gasket. I recommend a "HI-TEMP" epoxy that has been squeezed flat before curing, so the manifold with new gaskets seal like they're supposed to.

BTW, you CAN NOT WELD castiron exhaust manifold, the porous castiron is contaminated with exhaust carbon. ......Dell

 

[Anonymous-0]

When I replaced my gasket, I found out the manifold was warped. Make sure to put a straight edge on it first to verify its flat.
Oh yea, Tin foilmon the muffler flange works great before you clamp it up.

 

[Anonymous-0]

You guys are fast!

The engine block looks good and I am putting on a new manifold. TSC customer service says I do not need a sealant.

Your recommendations are most valued!

 

[BillM (OH)]

Z99:
I had an exhaust leak around #4 last year, so removed manifold and filled all pits with high temp
expoxy. Reinstalled (after cure and sanding flat) with new gasket and no sealant - still working fine - so far. Biggest problem I had was some dummy had used 2 bolts instead of the proper studs - one broke, of course, and I had to drill and tap (by hand - didn't want to remove the block to put it on the drill press), which was a PITA, but it worked - lucky, I guess. Good Luck!

 

[Hobo,NC]

believe me I am one of the few that werk on this chit for my living,,, use the ultra copper you will not regret it,,, what a lot of the old geezers don't understand is the gasket is the manifold and blocks worst enemy,,, the block and zaust manifold would live a long and happy life with out the gasket,,, cuzz Ford integrated the intake into the deal a gasket is needed,,, most engines leave the factory with out a zaust gasket (yes most modern engines do),,, for the few that have a zaust gasket guess what its composed of,,, Graphite, slicker than snot on a door knob,,, some use a metal shim tween the 2,,, the shim acts as a wear plate and takes the expansion,,, for some reason replacement gasket manufacturers send a zaust gasket thats not needed when one was never used in the first place,,, all i can say is the gasket will git the work out of warranty fer it makes a mess of things, the gasket will fail over time and take out the head and manifold with it,,, if installed with out a zaust manifold gasket the block and manifold seam to never give problem

The biggest use for the high temp RTV sealer is it acts as a lubricant tween the block and manifold,,, in time the RTV turns to a powder and acts as a lube,,, so why do you need a slick arse powder tween the manifold and block,,, the manifold and block expand at different rates,,, a naked gasket acts as a abrasive and grinds away at the manifold and block,,, the RTV prolongs this event with no ill effects,, if one already has a fudged up mess then it mite not work as advertised,,, nuttin beats good as new,,, why not try and add a proven preventive measure even if you do not have to warranty your work,,, I been do'n this for 30 years and always look'n for improvements in gasket sealing technology

The Zaust gasket used on a N could b made of much better material,,, but it ain't gonna happen,,, protect it best you can

 

[Brian Jasper co. Ia]

I'll weigh in here as a professional Chevy dealer tech. Silicon sealer has it's places, just not on this one. The exhaust gets too hot and the gas will dissolve it on the intake side. Like one of the others said, you need to check your manifold for flatness. If it's warped, new gaskets aren't going to help. The copper coat someone referred to is available at good parts stores like Napa and Car Quest. I've never used copper coat on an intake or exhaust manifold. The other thing I see is some guys will use way too much so it oozes out in big globs on either side of the joint.

 

[Hobo,NC]

I hope you are not one of those idiots that use zaust manifold gaskets on a 350 chevy when the manifold and head are in great condition

I don't understand this statement
"The exhaust gets too hot and the gas will dissolve it on the intake side."

Somewhere i have a pix of a N zaust gasket that I removed after 2 years of run'n it like i stole it that i used the high temp RTV on,,, the gasket came rite off and could B reused,,, try that on a unsealed gasket

I am not sure were folks came up with using copper coat on a zaust gasket,,, don't make no fudgen since to me,,, course thats what you will find dealing wif DIY'ers,,, and a few so called tech's

I can see were it would B used on a metal intake gasket (chevy mechanics don't see much of that) Old ford mechanics have

 

[Brian Jasper co. Ia]

I guess I should have clarified a little better. Silicon sealer won't stand the heat of exhaust and gasoline will dissolve it. When it comes to exhaust gaskets, I only use what the factory originally put there. The old 350's etc didn't have gaskets. The last ones (including 4.3s')built did. Now, they use multi-lam gaskets for heads and exhaust.
As far as this Ford N manifold is concerned, if it were me working on it, it would eiither get machined or replaced if it were too rough for a gasket alone to seal. Silly Putty has it's place, like sealing the valley ends of manifolds, not trying to seal an exhaust or intake manifold.

 

[Hobo,NC]

(quoted from post at 18:28:08 10/21/08) I guess I should have clarified a little better. Silicon sealer won't stand the heat of exhaust and gasoline will dissolve it. When it comes to exhaust gaskets, I only use what the factory originally put there. The old 350's etc didn't have gaskets. The last ones (including 4.3s')built did. Now, they use multi-lam gaskets for heads and exhaust.
As far as this Ford N manifold is concerned, if it were me working on it, it would eiither get machined or replaced if it were too rough for a gasket alone to seal. Silly Putty has it's place, like sealing the valley ends of manifolds, not trying to seal an exhaust or intake manifold.

Well we both agree that the seal is not gonna b any better than the seal'n surface, my statement "The Zaust gasket used on a N could b made of much better material" is why i recommend it needs some help,,, till its tried then one would not know,,, godda run got a kill going on "intake manifold gaskets' on a 99 5.7,,, BTW will try and dig up the pix of the used N gaskets

 

[Hobo,NC]

Kin not find the pix,,, must have been on a puter i had that crashed,,, I know i posted it here sometime early in the year in a response to Dan,,, All I can say is the silly putty werks, its not a guess its from my experience as a Mechanic,,, may-b techs have some'n going on I don't know about,,, it does not burn up nor does gas effect it,,, Iffin folks don't want to better there werk its OK with me,,, I have to eat my fudge ups and not pawn'em off on someone else

 

[Dunk]

(quoted from post at 09:37:58 10/21/08) I hope you are not one of those idiots that use zaust manifold gaskets on a 350 chevy when the manifold and head are in great condition

I don't understand this statement
"The exhaust gets too hot and the gas will dissolve it on the intake side."

Somewhere i have a pix of a N zaust gasket that I removed after 2 years of run'n it like i stole it that i used the high temp RTV on,,, the gasket came rite off and could B reused,,, try that on a unsealed gasket

I am not sure were folks came up with using copper coat on a zaust gasket,,, don't make no fudgen since to me,,, course thats what you will find dealing wif DIY'ers,,, and a few so called tech's

I can see were it would B used on a metal intake gasket (chevy mechanics don't see much of that) Old ford mechanics have

Hobo......

You have been sippin on them jugs of homemade wine agin, ain't cha...

 

[Hobo,NC]

Naw its not the wine its the free samples of Skoal I picked up at the NASCAR race in Martinsville Va. Sunday,,, I am a loose leaf guy but this DIP will give ya a Buzz ,,, they don't have to worry bout me come'n back,,, it was the most bore'n race i have ever been to,,, ranks rite up thier wif the race they use to run a Rockingham

 

[Brian Jasper co. Ia]

The only sealer I can think of that gas won't eat is Loctite's version of anerobic sealer like what we use to reseal a ft diff case. That's the stuff that looks like raspberry jelly. Any variety of silicone won't stand up to gas. Smear some on anything, let it set up, then dip it in gas. It'll come off in a matter of minutes.

 

[Hobo,NC]

Mite B true in some cases but its not the issue here,,, GM has a big problem then along with others,,, their intake gaskets have a nice bead of RTV sealer around the gasket,,, My experience is not a guess,,, I have sealed N manifolds with High temp RTV for years,,, upon removal the gasket, block and manifold looked good as new,,, with a plane gasket the manifold surface was corroded and the gasket useless,,, hum thats another benefit the RTV seals out corrosive zaust gas

If you missed out on the days when intake and zaust manifold were integrated than you mite B lucky to never have had to figger out how to seal'em

I don't know how old you are and you mite now have been a round when RTV was first introduced,,, that first few years of the RTV was pert near useless in automotive applications,,, RTV has come a longs ways,,, their are specific blends for specific applications,,, Altho none I know of that would make a gas tank sealer,,, If you wanna see some mean RTV that I have yet to find any thing that will dissolve it git a hold of some Chrysler red RTV made specifically to seal their differential oils

I keep a tube of raspberry flavored flange sealant,,, it does make a good sealer for fit'ns used around fuel,,, Try the high temp sealer on yer zaust connections what ya got to luzz