Massey 165 Gas Sputtering

[pmanaigre88]

Hey everyone. Working on my new-to-me Massey 165 with the Continental G176 gas. Trying to get it running right. I just had the tank off and cleaned, along with the sediment bowl, new fuel line to carb, etc. This has the Zenith carb with adjustable main jet. I just completely rebuilt the carb, repaired a small crack in the float, set float height to what the manual stated 1 and 5/32" from face of throttle body. Took cap and rotor off and set points gap to .016, as per owners manual, which i believe is correct... the tractor runs pretty good, but my issue is it has an occasional sputter/miss under any rpm above idle, almost like it's running lean or starving for fuel. Adjusting the main jet seems to make no difference. Initial carb settings from what I understand would be main jet adjusted 1.5-2 turns out from closed. I can set the main jet out 9+ turns out from closed and it doesn't make a difference. I can't seem to enrich it enough to where I see any black smoke or the tractor runs worse. From idle I can rev it quickly to max rpm and it doesn't sputter then, it only seems to after it's been running for a while under any rpm above idle, if that makes sense. Not sure what else to try... going to put a new set of spark plugs and possibly new points and condenser, but I dont think thats the issue in my case, it seems like a fuel issue. Like I said I cant really seem toadjust the carb to where it's running over-rich and blowing black smoke. Sorry for the long post, appreciate any insight from the experts.

 

[old]

Hey everyone. Working on my new-to-me Massey 165 with the Continental G176 gas. Trying to get it running right. I just had the tank off and cleaned, along with the sediment bowl, new fuel line to carb, etc. This has the Zenith carb with adjustable main jet. I just completely rebuilt the carb, repaired a small crack in the float, set float height to what the manual stated 1 and 5/32" from face of throttle body. Took cap and rotor off and set points gap to .016, as per owners manual, which i believe is correct... the tractor runs pretty good, but my issue is it has an occasional sputter/miss under any rpm above idle, almost like it's running lean or starving for fuel. Adjusting the main jet seems to make no difference. Initial carb settings from what I understand would be main jet adjusted 1.5-2 turns out from closed. I can set the main jet out 9+ turns out from closed and it doesn't make a difference. I can't seem to enrich it enough to where I see any black smoke or the tractor runs worse. From idle I can rev it quickly to max rpm and it doesn't sputter then, it only seems to after it's been running for a while under any rpm above idle, if that makes sense. Not sure what else to try... going to put a new set of spark plugs and possibly new points and condenser, but I dont think thats the issue in my case, it seems like a fuel issue. Like I said I cant really seem toadjust the carb to where it's running over-rich and blowing black smoke. Sorry for the long post, appreciate any insight from the experts.

You say you repaired the float, I have NEVER been able to repair a float and have it work due to by doing so you add weight to it so in turn it doesn't float as it needs to. You probably need to buy a new float

 

[pmanaigre88]

You say you repaired the float, I have NEVER been able to repair a float and have it work due to by doing so you add weight to it so in turn it doesn't float as it needs to. You probably need to buy a new float

Interesting! I've heard mixed opinions on repairing floats. Some people say it works. Others don't, but it would make sense considering the issue I'm having... less buoyant float would mean it sits lower which means less fuel, essentially. Appreciate the response, now to see if I can find a new float for a carb that old

 

[old]

Interesting! I've heard mixed opinions on repairing floats. Some people say it works. Others don't, but it would make sense considering the issue I'm having... less buoyant float would mean it sits lower which means less fuel, essentially. Appreciate the response, now to see if I can find a new float for a carb that old

This site is likely to have them. By the way when I was in the Navy I was micro soldering qualified so I know soldering very well

 

[pmanaigre88]

This site is likely to have them. By the way when I was in the Navy I was micro soldering qualified so I know soldering very well

Oh okay I will have a look. Thank you!

And appreciate your service, micro soldering sounds very interesting. I solder on a fairly regular basis at work, but not an expert by any stretch. Could definitely see how that would affect weight of the float by a significant amount

 

[Jim.ME]

Hey everyone. Working on my new-to-me Massey 165 with the Continental G176 gas. Trying to get it running right. I just had the tank off and cleaned, along with the sediment bowl, new fuel line to carb, etc. This has the Zenith carb with adjustable main jet. I just completely rebuilt the carb, repaired a small crack in the float, set float height to what the manual stated 1 and 5/32" from face of throttle body. Took cap and rotor off and set points gap to .016, as per owners manual, which i believe is correct... the tractor runs pretty good, but my issue is it has an occasional sputter/miss under any rpm above idle, almost like it's running lean or starving for fuel. Adjusting the main jet seems to make no difference. Initial carb settings from what I understand would be main jet adjusted 1.5-2 turns out from closed. I can set the main jet out 9+ turns out from closed and it doesn't make a difference. I can't seem to enrich it enough to where I see any black smoke or the tractor runs worse. From idle I can rev it quickly to max rpm and it doesn't sputter then, it only seems to after it's been running for a while under any rpm above idle, if that makes sense. Not sure what else to try... going to put a new set of spark plugs and possibly new points and condenser, but I dont think thats the issue in my case, it seems like a fuel issue. Like I said I cant really seem toadjust the carb to where it's running over-rich and blowing black smoke. Sorry for the long post, appreciate any insight from the experts.

If the plugs haven't been changed for a long time change them. I have been using NGKs in my gas tractors with good luck. Your local parts store should be able to cross reference the ones you are running to NGK.

If the point contacts are rough, I would change them and leave the condenser, it is working. I believe the points are Standard # DR 2240 for the Blue Streak (best) grade. The DR 2240T is their trade grade to be priced nearer their competitors. Always run a piece of brown paper bag or clean card stock (even a folded up dollar bill will work) between the closed points after you set them to clean any residue from the contacts. Set the timing with a timing light as the manual gives.

When was the last time the valves were checked/adjusted?

 

[pmanaigre88]

If the plugs haven't been changed for a long time change them. I have been using NGKs in my gas tractors with good luck. Your local parts store should be able to cross reference the ones you are running to NGK.

If the point contacts are rough, I would change them and leave the condenser, it is working. I believe the points are Standard # DR 2240 for the Blue Streak (best) grade. The DR 2240T is their trade grade to be priced nearer their competitors. Always run a piece of brown paper bag or clean card stock (even a folded up dollar bill will work) between the closed points after you set them to clean any residue from the contacts. Set the timing with a timing light as the manual gives.

When was the last time the valves were checked/adjusted?

Plugs that are in it now are NGK A-7 plugs. I've cleaned them and set gap to .025. Point contacts aren't rough but they are quite worn down, I'm sure it's been a long time since they were changed. Wouldn't do any harm in changing them... Haven't messed with ignition timing yet, don't have a timing light at the moment.

I just set the valves, as I was in the top end dealing with broken valve shim (posted on here about said issue a couple months ago). I set them cold before I put everything back together. I know they're supposed to be set hot, just had everything apart at the time ajd wanted to get them set fairly close. I added an extra .001 of gap to both intake and exhaust (intake set to .017, exhaust set to .019). Haven't gone back in to set them hot yet, but maybe that has somethung to do with my issue??.. it's just strange how it's an intermittent sputter.

 

[old]

Oh okay I will have a look. Thank you!

And appreciate your service, micro soldering sounds very interesting. I solder on a fairly regular basis at work, but not an expert by any stretch. Could definitely see how that would affect weight of the float by a significant amount

Back in the day I could remove a 16-32 leg I.C. chip from a circuit board and then install a new one and have the computer back up and running

 

[pmanaigre88]

Back in the day I could remove a 16-32 leg I.C. chip from a circuit board and then install a new one and have the computer back up and running

Very cool!

 

[old]

Very cool!

Still have the 25 watt soldering iron I used back when I was in the Navy. But it has been years since I have used it but my eye site isn't what it once was and my hands are not as steady as they once where but that was also a tad over 45 years ago

 

[pmanaigre88]

That's super neat! Can imagine you'd need a very steady hand for that, and lots of practice

Still have the 25 watt soldering iron I used back when I was in the Navy. But it has been years since I have used it but my eye site isn't what it once was and my hands are not as steady as they once where but that was also a tad over 45 years ago

 

[old]

That's super neat! Can imagine you'd need a very steady hand for that, and lots of practice

Yes had to have a very steady hand and good eye site. Plus you couldn't be color blind. I did 3 tours on the SSBN633 and due to almost going down the crush depth I transferred off of the sub and went to the JFK CVA67 aircraft carrier and in the carrier I worked on the flight deck communication system which also took a steady hand and good eyes

 

[Jim.ME]

Plugs that are in it now are NGK A-7 plugs. I've cleaned them and set gap to .025. Point contacts aren't rough but they are quite worn down, I'm sure it's been a long time since they were changed. Wouldn't do any harm in changing them... Haven't messed with ignition timing yet, don't have a timing light at the moment.

I just set the valves, as I was in the top end dealing with broken valve shim (posted on here about said issue a couple months ago). I set them cold before I put everything back together. I know they're supposed to be set hot, just had everything apart at the time ajd wanted to get them set fairly close. I added an extra .001 of gap to both intake and exhaust (intake set to .017, exhaust set to .019). Haven't gone back in to set them hot yet, but maybe that has somethung to do with my issue??.. it's just strange how it's an intermittent sputter.

Your valve lash may be ok as is, I generally go .002 extra when setting valves cold if a hot spec is given and don't recheck hot.

Timing is actually supposed to be final set at 2500 rpm, I expect you saw that in the manual. Using a timing light lets you see if the distributor advance is working as the rpms increase you should see the timing advance increase.

 

[pmanaigre88]

I appreciate the sanity check on the valve lash. Wasnt sure if .001 was a reasonable amount extra to set cold but I don't think thats where my immediate issue lies.

My manual says timing is to be set at 36 BTDC at 2250 rpm, but that may be for the Perkins gas... will have to check the continental manual i have, just dont have it at the moment as it's on my computer at work... appreciate the info!!

Your valve lash may be ok as is, I generally go .002 extra when setting valves cold if a hot spec is given and don't recheck hot.

Timing is actually supposed to be final set at 2500 rpm, I expect you saw that in the manual. Using a timing light lets you see if the distributor advance is working as the rpms increase you should see the timing advance increase.

 

[Jim.ME]

I appreciate the sanity check on the valve lash. Wasnt sure if .001 was a reasonable amount extra to set cold but I don't think thats where my immediate issue lies.

My manual says timing is to be set at 36 BTDC at 2250 rpm, but that may be for the Perkins gas... will have to check the continental manual i have, just dont have it at the moment as it's on my computer at work... appreciate the info!!

Yes, check your Continental manual, I am likely too high on the rpm.

 

[joeysmith]

If adjusting the carb doesn't change anything I'd lean towards something in the carb is still plugged up or something didn't get back together correctly