Massey 44 without head gasket

[mark49]

I am considering building a 44 without a head gasket. To those who have done it, what would be a minimum deck thickness to have to ensure that the copper fire ring does not crack the head when it is torqued.

 

[VicS]

I just measured my fire rings. They are .100 thick. And 5" I'd . There is a groove cut in the sleeve. The sleeves stick out about .008. The fire rings may be.copper but they are silver coated. When I torque the head down. They start squishing at about 100 ft. Pounds. I have a giant o-ring groove in the block around the push rods. And a small groove where the oil pressure comes to the rocket arms. I have screw in plugs in every water hole in the head and the block. So can't leak any water. So put water in front of the block and take water out of back of the block. Then put it back in the.back of the head. Then water comes out the front of head to top radiator inlet. 1" suck lines to pump and 3/4 outlet line from pump to front of block. Use a tube of silicone between block and head. As clear as mud.

 

[mark49]

I intend to deck the block with the sleeves installed and have only the fire rings protruding, and run water in the normal way. Mel is a friend and lives close by- that's where the idea originated from. The only concern I really have is that my head has had .310" removed from the deck, leaving about .200". Just not sure if it will stand up to 140lb-ft when I torque it down to crush the fire ring.

 

[EFV]

If the head won't take torquing it sure won't take combustion pressure. The head has been milled so you're committed.
Little late to think about protection when you're on your way home from her house,lol. Let us know how it turns out.

 

[mark49]

I've been running this head for years with a head gasket without any issues. Going from 4" to 4.29" bore. For a Continental head it flows well, but I may have to give up some compression in order to continue using it.

 

[mEl]

I just measured my fire rings. They are .100 thick. And 5" I'd . There is a groove cut in the sleeve. The sleeves stick out about .008. The fire rings may be.copper but they are silver coated. When I torque the head down. They start squishing at about 100 ft. Pounds. I have a giant o-ring groove in the block around the push rods. And a small groove where the oil pressure comes to the rocket arms. I have screw in plugs in every water hole in the head and the block. So can't leak any water. So put water in front of the block and take water out of back of the block. Then put it back in the.back of the head. Then water comes out the front of head to top radiator inlet. 1" suck lines to pump and 3/4 outlet line from pump to front of block. Use a tube of silicone between block and head. As clear as mud.

Vic, I am Mark's friend he referred to, I have been doing head gasket less setups now for probably ten years, I use a .060 copper soft wire in a .040 X .080 groove in the top edge of the sleeve with the block as the outer wall. I do not have oil passage issues as DCs are fed via a pipe up from the block deck, I simply put silicone on the deck and torque it down leaving the water passages to function normally. I have planed my head .100 and my deck .060 and got rid of at least .080 head gasket thickness, I have dropped my head near1/4 "total. DCs are stock at 3 7/8" and I will post a pic of my 4 5/8 setup. I also have a friend who is using this on a MF diesel with no problems. So much better than head gaskets. If head gaskets are an issue in your builds, this is so simple and so good, Sealing ring failures are practically unheard of at standard torque values.

 

[VicS]

Vic, I am Mark's friend he referred to, I have been doing head gasket less setups now for probably ten years, I use a .060 copper soft wire in a .040 X .080 groove in the top edge of the sleeve with the block as the outer wall. I do not have oil passage issues as DCs are fed via a pipe up from the block deck, I simply put silicone on the deck and torque it down leaving the water passages to function normally. I have planed my head .100 and my deck .060 and got rid of at least .080 head gasket thickness, I have dropped my head near1/4 "total. DCs are stock at 3 7/8" and I will post a pic of my 4 5/8 setup. I also have a friend who is using this on a MF diesel with no problems. So much better than head gaskets. If head gaskets are an issue in your builds, this is so simple and so good, Sealing ring failures are practically unheard of at standard torque values.

Thanks. Shame we were not around when they were building them. Lol.

 

[gable]

Hope that will have a good compression. We're taking in this Massey 44 soon once we clear the Wrangler at the garage. The new brake pads and jeep wheels showed up so we can take the tractor in tomorrow. We'll if it needs to re-bore as well.

 

[mark49]

With a head gasket, it should be about 10.5:1. Without about 11.1:1

 

[gable]

With a head gasket, it should be about 10.5:1. Without about 11.1:1

Good info, thanks!