Massey 471 Will Not Start

[NorthAlabamaHay]

I have a Massey Ferguson 471. It will not crank. I can spray starting fluid and it will start up and run perfect. Once I shut it off, it will do the same thing. Any thoughts would greatly be appreciated.

 

[Steve in VA]

I have a Massey Ferguson 471. It will not crank. I can spray starting fluid and it will start up and run perfect. Once I shut it off, it will do the same thing. Any thoughts would greatly be appreciated.

I'm confused. If it will not crank, meaning the engine won't rotate, no amount of starting fluid will overcome that. Do you mean the motor will spin but won't fire w/o starting fluid?

 

[used red MN]

I'm confused. If it will not crank, meaning the engine won't rotate, no amount of starting fluid will overcome that. Do you mean the motor will spin but won't fire w/o starting fluid?

I am sure you have seen this before on here, I know I have. Certain areas tend to use the term “crank” as to mean engine fires and runs. While generally those who use a more technical approach don’t buy into the use of such slang and use “crank” as synonymous with the operation and reaction of the electric starter motor.
Hello Northalabam…, welcome to YT! Sounds like you may be getting a small amount of air in the fuel system. Double check all lines and fittings back to the tank for any signs of leaks. Also if the tractor has a lift or transfer pump it might be a possibility that is failing. Some injection pumps can maintain a draw of fuel to them at operating speeds but can’t pull fuel to them at cranking speed, so the lift pump comes into play for that. Lastly a worn out injection pump will also not start a hot engine. Does the engine have to be hot for it not to start after it has ran once that day?

 

[rustred]

I have a Massey Ferguson 471. It will not crank. I can spray starting fluid and it will start up and run perfect. Once I shut it off, it will do the same thing. Any thoughts would greatly be appreciated.

how long has this been going on for with this problem might be helpful ? "crank", "start", and "run" would be the proper terminology for each situation as to what is going on. in your post its easy to read into it that the engine starts and runs with a shot. no crank refers to zilch , nada, no engine turning over. it can be a few things going on, plus the hrs on the engine is nice to know, and if you have done anything recently to cause this.

 

[rrlund]

Gas or diesel? Not real sure on those, do they have a lift pump? I've had a few diesels that acted like that when the lift pump was bad. The injector pump would pull enough fuel to run, but not enough to start.

 

[used red MN]

Gas or diesel? Not real sure on those, do they have a lift pump? I've had a few diesels that acted like that when the lift pump was bad. The injector pump would pull enough fuel to run, but not enough to start.

They are only offered with a Perkins diesel.
MF 471 on TD

 

[rrlund]

They are only offered with a Perkins diesel.
MF 471 on TD

Did you see if they have a lift pump?

 

[Jim.ME]

Welcome to the forums.

Your tractor is on the new side of things here so replies might be a bit slow and limited, but the guys will try to help you.

Some of this has already been asked, but actual answers from you will help.

What year is your 471? there was an engine change a couple years into production from a Perkins diesel 4.0L to a Perkins diesel 4.4L.

When were filters last changed?

Any exhaust after treatment?

You say it will not crank. Cranking here is generally considered to be the starter turning the engine. From your description I would say it cranks but does not start and run without using starting fluid.

Is it cranking at a good speed or turning slowly?

 

[MARK ROBKE]

When CIH tractors with a Bosch fuel pump do this, needing ether to spin the engine faster to build pressure in the injection pump, the injection pump is at fault, a worn head, I believe. Mark.

 

[showcrop]

how long has this been going on for with this problem might be helpful ? "crank", "start", and "run" would be the proper terminology for each situation as to what is going on. in your post its easy to read into it that the engine starts and runs with a shot. no crank refers to zilch , nada, no engine turning over. it can be a few things going on, plus the hrs on the engine is nice to know, and if you have done anything recently to cause this.

How about "turn over??? to half of the population it means rotating by means of the starter and to the other half it means to fire up and run.

 

[MARK ROBKE]

How about "turn over??? to half of the population it means rotating by means of the starter and to the other half it means to fire up and run.

I worked as a truck mechanic for 40 yrs. We always said, 'cranks, but won't fire up; won't crank-meaning starter not rotating the engine- (with a subset of just clicks, no click, or starter Bendix just clicks/chatters), or cranks over, won't hit, and most commonly, cranks but won't start'. I also heard drivers say it won't crank, but meaning it turns over, but won't start. Our drivers came thru from all over the country. I am not in any way making fun of the original poster, who actually clearly used both ways of saying it won't start in his post. In my mind not cranking and not starting are 2 separate problems, because it's 2 different diagnostics. I just think those who say won't crank, in place of cranks over, won't start, are not very mechanical. I may be wrong, and it's a colloquialism of certain regions of the country. Mark.

 

[NDIHC]

I worked as a truck mechanic for 40 yrs. We always said, 'cranks, but won't fire up; won't crank-meaning starter not rotating the engine- (with a subset of just clicks, no click, or starter Bendix just clicks/chatters), or cranks over, won't hit, and most commonly, cranks but won't start'. I also heard drivers say it won't crank, but meaning it turns over, but won't start. Our drivers came thru from all over the country. I am not in any way making fun of the original poster, who actually clearly used both ways of saying it won't start in his post. In my mind not cranking and not starting are 2 separate problems, because it's 2 different diagnostics. I just think those who say won't crank, in place of cranks over, won't start, are not very mechanical. I may be wrong, and it's a colloquialism of certain regions of the country. Mark.

How about "it just won't catch"? I've had several customers use that term. Then I have to find out if it's the starter that doesn't "catch" (starter runs but won't engage the ring gear to crank the engine) or if the engine cranks but won't "catch" (starter turn the engine but the engine won't start). I've also had customers use the term for a no crank/no starter motor turning (I turn the key but it just won't catch). As you said, probably depends what part if the country someone is from and if they have any mechanical knowledge.

 

[MARK ROBKE]

How about "it just won't catch"? I've had several customers use that term. Then I have to find out if it's the starter that doesn't "catch" (starter runs but won't engage the ring gear to crank the engine) or if the engine cranks but won't "catch" (starter turn the engine but the engine won't start). I've also had customers use the term for a no crank/no starter motor turning (I turn the key but it just won't catch). As you said, probably depends what part if the country someone is from and if they have any mechanical knowledge.

I retired 11 yrs ago-that is another one that I forgot. I don't talk to any drivers anymore, and there were a lot of expressions from all over the country, and accents too, that I used to remember! Mark.

 

[NorthAlabamaHay]

I'm confused. If it will not crank, meaning the engine won't rotate, no amount of starting fluid will overcome that. Do you mean the motor will spin but won't fire w/o starting fluid?

Sorry for the confusion. You are correct, the motor will spin but won't fire w/o starting fluid.

 

[Steve in VA]

Sorry for the confusion. You are correct, the motor will spin but won't fire w/o starting fluid.

No worries. Reading through the thread, I would say used red MN has offered great advice to pursue. Please give us an update as you sort this out.

 

[NorthAlabamaHay]

Welcome to the forums.

Your tractor is on the new side of things here so replies might be a bit slow and limited, but the guys will try to help you.

Some of this has already been asked, but actual answers from you will help.

What year is your 471? there was an engine change a couple years into production from a Perkins diesel 4.0L to a Perkins diesel 4.4L.

When were filters last changed?

Any exhaust after treatment?

You say it will not crank. Cranking here is generally considered to be the starter turning the engine. From your description I would say it cranks but does not start and run without using starting fluid.

Is it cranking at a good speed or turning slowly?

Hi Jim,
I'm not sure on the year. The serial number is 9363BN07027.
I changed all filters after the problem started.
Any exhaust after treatment? No.
Yes, the tractor cranks but will not start without using starting fluid. It will run fine. I can run it and let it warm up, shut it down, and it will do the same thing.
When cranking, it does turn a little slow.

 

[NorthAlabamaHay]

I am sure you have seen this before on here, I know I have. Certain areas tend to use the term “crank” as to mean engine fires and runs. While generally those who use a more technical approach don’t buy into the use of such slang and use “crank” as synonymous with the operation and reaction of the electric starter motor.
Hello Northalabam…, welcome to YT! Sounds like you may be getting a small amount of air in the fuel system. Double check all lines and fittings back to the tank for any signs of leaks. Also if the tractor has a lift or transfer pump it might be a possibility that is failing. Some injection pumps can maintain a draw of fuel to them at operating speeds but can’t pull fuel to them at cranking speed, so the lift pump comes into play for that. Lastly a worn out injection pump will also not start a hot engine. Does the engine have to be hot for it not to start after it has ran once that day?

Sorry for the confusion. It will crank, but only with starting fluid. I can run it until it is warm, shut it down, then it does the same thing.

 

[NorthAlabamaHay]

I have a Massey Ferguson 471. It will not run. The motor spins over fine. I can spray starting fluid and it will start up and run perfect. Once I shut it off, it will do the same thing. Any thoughts would greatly be appreciated.

 

[Jim.ME]

Hi Jim,
I'm not sure on the year. The serial number is 9363BN07027.
I changed all filters after the problem started.
Any exhaust after treatment? No.
Yes, the tractor cranks but will not start without using starting fluid. It will run fine. I can run it and let it warm up, shut it down, and it will do the same thing.
When cranking, it does turn a little slow.

The 2004 serial numbers started with BN00001 according to Tractor Data and 2005 started with BP00001, so your tractor should be a 2004 with a 4.4L (268.9 ci) Perkins diesel.

Looking at the parts book it looks like the BN serial numbers may be Tier 2 emissions.

You say it turns a little slow. How old is the battery and has it been load tested with a carbon pile type tester? Does hooking a booster battery to it improve cranking speed?

I see a solenoid on the side of the fuel pump in the parts book. This may be a fuel shut off. Is that correct or do you have a cable or rod to pull to stop the engine? If it is an electric fuel shutoff check to see that it has power before and when cranking.

Doe you have the Operator's and Service manuals for your tractor?