MF40 (UK) model ID help required pls (also further queries)

[Jawaswag]

Hi all. New to the site - and to Massey Fergusons!

I have recently acquired an MF40 - it's got a diesel 3cyl motor fitted and has the following serial no. 844293 [engine serial 152UA3001350]. It's fitted with instant reverse transmission.

Can any of you knowledgeable gents assist in determining the (approx) year of manufacture and the specific model of the tractor please? I only have the date of first local registration (it was shipped from the UK to here [here being the Channel Islands]).

We're trying to get the beast running again - the motor is sweet, but the hydraulics and transmission most certainly aren't - so help with the ID will be useful.

As an aside (before I get down to silly and other questions) where would the hydraulic filter normally be fitted please? At present the filter is just in front of the engine oil filter and is blocking access to the engine dip-stick...

Any leads as to service and operators manuals in the UK will be greatly appreciated as she didn't come with anything - and none of the original "stickers" are left (she's had a hard life!)

Advice is going to be appreciated with Torque Converter/Gearbox function and also with getting the 3PH working - when we get to that stage!

Much obliged, and thanks for reading!

 

[Jawaswag]

A few supplementary Qs. The hydraulic filter is the yellow one - is this the usual position?

Is this bar/linkage (visible behind & below the 3PH controls) for diff lock? If not, what is the purpose please?

After the front Hydraulic pump broke, previous owners plumbed the loader hydraulics into here. Is this why we have no 3PH? Any advice please? We've currently just connected the other ends of the hoses together (for now) to make a complete circuit.

 

[Anonymous-0]

I think you're correct why the 3 pt. doesn't work. Your loader must be pretty slow. Not too familiar with UK MF40's to answer your other questions though.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Forgot to mention but there should be the casting date on the bottom of the oil pan to give you an idea of the year. It's near the front of the tractor.

 

[MK in Ontario]

Looks fairly different from our MF40 loader. Yes that would be
the diff lock actuating mechanism, though it looks like it's
probably frozen. I think it's engaged when pushed in. On ours,
there is a hand lever that's attached at a pivot over the brake
actuating rod that hooks into that cupped portion on the end of
your pawl.
That filter looks like it's probably the instant-reverse
transmission oil filter. I doubt that it is the hydraulic system
filter as it's kind of small for the large amount of oil it would
have to handle for the loader. A picture of the whole tractor
would be helpful, especially as far as the loader goes. On our
loader, the hydraulic tank is in the right frame upright, the filler
on top of that and the hydraulic filter is attached to the outer
side of the upright. The cartridge housing is about 6" in diameter
and about 10" long. Transmission oil is filled in at the top,
through the plug next to the shifter. Dipstick is on the right of
the transmission, about where your heel would be. It takes MF
Permatran or equivalent. I'm sure any good TDH fluid will do in a
pinch. When it's working well, the instant-trans is very sweet in
my opinion, especially for loader work. Never use the throttle
lever when moving the tractor. It's critical rpm's be at idle when
switching from forward to reverse, vice versa or from a stop.
Good brakes are also helpful so you can come to a complete
stop before reversing directions. The short shift lever on the
right should be high (back) and low (forward) with neutral in
between. The other on the left is 1st when forward and 2nd
when back, and not sure if also neutral in the middle. There is
probably a trans oil cooler in front of the radiator. I suspect the
lines running to it also tap into that filter by the dipstick. In any
event you can confirm if it is trans filter by checking where the
lines run to. If your 3pt has a separate pump run off the pto
shaft like a 135, then it may not work unless the transmission is
in forward or reverse (shafts are rotating), even if one of the
trans levers is in neutral. If that is the case and your loader is
running off the same 3pt pump it will also not work at that time.
Very inconvenient for a loader tractor. Hope this is of some help.
MK

 

[Jawaswag]

(quoted from post at 00:18:24 08/04/11) I think you're correct why the 3 pt. doesn't work. Your loader must be pretty slow. Not too familiar with UK MF40's to answer your other questions though.

Thanks! Good to have confirmation! To get the 3PH working, should these be blanked off? Would there usually be a hydraulic take off from here? If so, for what please?

It was terribly slow - which is why we've reluctantly decided to remove the loader and side weights [for now].

(quoted from post at 00:24:47 08/04/11) Forgot to mention but there should be the casting date on the bottom of the oil pan to give you an idea of the year. It's near the front of the tractor.

Thanks - I'd seen that on one of the searches I've done - but promptly forgot about it... d'oh!

Cheers!

 

[Jawaswag]

(quoted from post at 05:15:45 08/04/11) <snip>Yes that would be the diff lock actuating mechanism, though it looks like it's probably frozen. I think it's engaged when pushed in. On ours, there is a hand lever that's attached at a pivot over the brake
actuating rod that hooks into that cupped portion on the end of
your pawl.

Ok, thanks! So I'm missing a bit here then?

Incidentally, what is the adjuster under the brake rod for please? There's on on the other side next to the speedo drive too.

That filter looks like it's probably the instant-reverse
transmission oil filter. I doubt that it is the hydraulic system
filter as it's kind of small for the large amount of oil it would
have to handle for the loader. A picture of the whole tractor
would be helpful, especially as far as the loader goes. On our
loader, the hydraulic tank is in the right frame upright, the filler
on top of that and the hydraulic filter is attached to the outer
side of the upright. The cartridge housing is about 6" in diameter
and about 10" long. Transmission oil is filled in at the top,
through the plug next to the shifter. Dipstick is on the right of
the transmission, about where your heel would be. It takes MF
Permatran or equivalent. I'm sure any good TDH fluid will do in a
pinch. When it's working well, the instant-trans is very sweet in
my opinion, especially for loader work. Never use the throttle
lever when moving the tractor. It's critical rpm's be at idle when
switching from forward to reverse, vice versa or from a stop.
Good brakes are also helpful so you can come to a complete
stop before reversing directions. The short shift lever on the
right should be high (back) and low (forward) with neutral in
between. The other on the left is 1st when forward and 2nd
when back, and not sure if also neutral in the middle. There is
probably a trans oil cooler in front of the radiator. I suspect the
lines running to it also tap into that filter by the dipstick. In any
event you can confirm if it is trans filter by checking where the
lines run to. If your 3pt has a separate pump run off the pto
shaft like a 135, then it may not work unless the transmission is
in forward or reverse (shafts are rotating), even if one of the
trans levers is in neutral. If that is the case and your loader is
running off the same 3pt pump it will also not work at that time.
Very inconvenient for a loader tractor. Hope this is of some help.
MK

That's wonderful, thanks! You've answered quite a few queries there I'm taking it that there's a filter under the circular plate here then.

That yellow filter has the take-off from by the brake pedal pivot so I'm expecting that you're correct! The line goes from the filter to the oil cooler. Do you have any idea what filter element will be in the housing? Or should I just bite the bullet and get a spin on housing and regular filer (like for the engine oil)?

Anyway, with the oil filters as close together as they are, how does one get to the dipstick?!

I'm afraid that we've had to dump the loader for now as it was plumbed in as shown in the photos above after the front pump packed up.

Anyway, here's the old girl as she was last week - we've now removed the fuel tank and are trying to clean her up a bit!

The loader is here - it has rams for the main arms as well as the bucket.

Any help is greatly appreciated - this is the first tractor I've tinkered with and I've never worked with this sort of transmission before!

Cheers!

 

[MK in Ontario]

That looks a fair bit different from our NAmerican version. it
looks a lot like a 135 with it's steering, brake pedals and sheet
metal. Your loader is different from ours. It looks like the arms
are the same and about as strong, but it's bucket self-leveling
system is mechanical as compared to ours, which is hydraulically
controlled through the valve body.
The front nose cone, engine, and the rest of the drive train look
similar. I don't see your loader frame anywhere. Was there a
filter and hydraulic tank on it? Yes, you are missing some bits
from the diff lock mechanism. I'm not sure exactly how yours
would've been fitted originally. Those two adjusters on the axle
housings, either side of the transmission would be brake
adjusters for the disc brakes in the axle trumpet. Now, I'm a bit
unsure here, but it looks like you may have two brake systems
there. It looks like brake actuating rods to drum brakes activated
by the hand (park) brake lever, and I would bet your pedals
control disc brakes in the axle as service brakes. David P or
Masseynut probably know more, if they come across this.
Otherwise you might start another post asking them to
comment. I doubt that there is any filter under that round plate
on the left side of the trans. Does your tractor have a PTO?
Usually that is where the PTO engagement lever would be and
the plate will provide access to the mechanism if needed.
Apparently the PTO will only turn (once engaged) if forward or
reverse is selected in the trans. I'm not sure if it will actually
change direction with selection of either forward or reverse (I
doubt it) but it will stop if you're mowing and bring the tractor to
a stop. SO, if it works and you're intending to use it, you would
be well served to have an over-running clutch between it and any
PTO driven attachments you use. This will allow the attachment
to keep going on it's momentum while the PTO shaft stops with
the rest of the transmission.Otherwise the attachment could
drive the tractor. Does do your transmission work fine? Forward
and reverse OK and engage smoothly? Does the engine dipstick
not pull out between the two filters? I'd say your trans filter
location looks original. Ours is up under the dash, left side just
behind where the hood panel meets the dash. Could you loosen
the mounting bolts and move it a bit to gain more room for the
dipstick? A replacement filter cartridge should be available
through an Agco (Massey) dealer, if you have one. Alternately, if you can
get a part number and description somehow you could probably
get an aftermarket match. It looks like it might be similar to
ours, just in a different location. I'll look at ours tomorrow when
I'm at the shop and see if I can find a parts number in our book.
Too bad the front pump is shot. These tractor/loaders have good
hydraulic power, with lots of flow and good pressure. That's
about the most I can tell you. Good luck.

 

[Jawaswag]

Thanks mate!

(quoted from post at 03:00:52 08/05/11)Now, I'm a bit unsure here, but it looks like you may have two brake systems
there. It looks like brake actuating rods to drum brakes activated
by the hand (park) brake lever, and I would bet your pedals
control disc brakes in the axle as service brakes.

Cheers guv! Does look like two brake systems, but we don't have the hardstanding to take the wheels off :-(

I doubt that there is any filter under that round plate
on the left side of the trans. Does your tractor have a PTO?
Usually that is where the PTO engagement lever would be and
the plate will provide access to the mechanism if needed.

Yep, that's the PTO engagement lever. Found a "triangular" plate under the axle - guess that's where the filter lives then? I'm seriously thinking of getting a 135 service manual as that'll be better than flying almost blind!

SO, if it works and you're intending to use it, you would be well served to have an over-running clutch between it and any PTO driven attachments you use.

Noted, cheers!

Does do your transmission work fine? Forward and reverse OK and engage smoothly?

Aha... I wish! A bush inside the torque converter must be worn, as reverse is - relatively easy but forwards is most definitely not!

Does the engine dipstick not pull out between the two filters? I'd say your trans filter location looks original.

It's going to need a bracket re-bending I think!

A replacement filter cartridge should be available
through an Agco (Massey) dealer, if you have one. Alternately, if you can
get a part number and description somehow you could probably
get an aftermarket match. It looks like it might be similar to
ours, just in a different location. I'll look at ours tomorrow when
I'm at the shop and see if I can find a parts number in our book.
Too bad the front pump is shot. These tractor/loaders have good
hydraulic power, with lots of flow and good pressure. That's
about the most I can tell you. Good luck.

Cheers! Going to need that luck!

A couple of (I hope) better photos if they'll help anyone with the ID...

 

[samn40]

Your tractor is an MF 40, the hoses you have connected together
are now dumping the oil, block off the front outlet, the rear hose
is a return and only needs blocked to keep out dirt. It will not be
pressurised. As someone else said the hydraulic pump and PTO
will only work if the tractor or torque is driving and the PTO reverses with the tractor making this
virtually useless as a tractor.Also the torque is very expensive to
repair.Personally I would look out for a second hand gearbox,
from an MF40 or possibly a 65/165 and change the tractor to a
manual gearbox with a dual clutch. Another cheap option we
have in Britain and possibly the Channel Isles is the availability of
scrap 4 cylinder 35 rear ends.this would make a good usable
tractor if you mated the 35 rear end and gearbox to your engine
and front axle,remember you will need wheels also as the axle
ends are different. Your old axles, if they are wet brake will be of
great interest to anyone looking to convert a dry brake 65/165.
These are just some ideas of your cheapest route to a better
tractor,at least if you do away with the torque and its hyd filter
you will be able to pull the dipstick!
Sam

 

[MK in Ontario]

Jawaswag, When you say forward is difficult, what actually do you
mean? Is the pedal hard to move, the pedal goes into the
forward position but the transmission doesn't engage, or when
engaged in forward it makes a lot of noise or has difficult/erratic
motion? I doubt it would be a bad torque convertor bushing if it
moves well in reverse. There could be a bad bushing or worn
clutches in the forward gearset. Actually I don't think this
machine has a torque convertor. If I recall correctly, the
transmission input shaft has a pump on it that controls
engagement/disengagement of the transmission by engaging
clutches on either the forward or rearward gearsets depending
on pedal movement. That's why it's critical to have the idle
properly adjusted and not to use the throttle during tractor
operation. I've seen the trans filter on our machine and I'm pretty
sure it's the same as yours, just in a different position. I'm sure
that is the only filter on the transmission. No part number yet.
Samn40's advice might be well worth taking. It might get
expensive rebuilding that trans, if that ends up being what's
required. Plus, there's the PTO/3PT quirkiness factor.

 

[MK in Ontario]

I am wrong. Of course there is a torque converter behind the
engine. However the rest is correct. So, if reverse is generally
good, but forward isn't, then I don't think there is any problem
with the torque converter. It doesn't change direction or function
any differently. Rather, I think it would indicate a clutch
problem. Those caps on the left provide access to the pressure
regulator valves. There should be a 1/8" port on the top right
side of the trans for testing pressures. Be carefull about taking
that plug out, as there is a small copper pipe attached tp the
bushing below, that must not come disconnected, or else a split
will be your only hope for repair. The plug on the right is a filler
port for the pump pickup. There is only the one trans filter, but
there is a screen in the bottom of the sump. If you take it off,
just be careful you don't dislodge the suction pipe going from
that cover to the pump manifold. MK

 

[Jawaswag]

(quoted from post at 00:34:18 08/07/11) Your tractor is an MF 40, the hoses you have connected together are now dumping the oil, block off the front outlet, the rear hose is a return and only needs blocked to keep out dirt. It will not be pressurised.

Awesome, thanks - I'll block those off as soon as I can find a blank! So she's a std 40 rather than a B?

As someone else said the hydraulic pump and PTO will only work if the tractor or torque is driving and the PTO reverses with the tractor making this virtually useless as a tractor.Also the torque is very expensive to repair.Personally I would look out for a second hand gearbox, from an MF40 or possibly a 65/165 and change the tractor to a
manual gearbox with a dual clutch. Another cheap option we have in Britain and possibly the Channel Isles is the availability of scrap 4 cylinder 35 rear ends.this would make a good usable tractor if you mated the 35 rear end and gearbox to your engine and front axle,remember you will need wheels also as the axle ends are different. Your old axles, if they are wet brake will be of great interest to anyone looking to convert a dry brake 65/165.
These are just some ideas of your cheapest route to a better tractor,at least if you do away with the torque and its hyd filter you will be able to pull the dipstick!
Sam

Thanks! Unfortunately, the availability of scrap 35/135 over here is a problem... It looks like the torque converter and g/box are ok but I do need to investigate more! Cheers!

 

[Jawaswag]

(quoted from post at 02:23:50 08/07/11) Jawaswag, When you say forward is difficult, what actually do you mean? Is the pedal hard to move, the pedal goes into the forward position but the transmission doesn't engage, or when engaged in forward it makes a lot of noise or has difficult/erratic motion?

The selector linkage is quite worn so getting forwards motion is usually a case of killing the motor and restarting with the forwards pedal pressed down (and praying!).

I've seen the trans filter on our machine and I'm pretty sure it's the same as yours, just in a different position. I'm sure that is the only filter on the transmission. No part number yet. Samn40's advice might be well worth taking. It might get expensive rebuilding that trans, if that ends up being what's required. Plus, there's the PTO/3PT quirkiness factor.

Thanks! I've looked into getting a 135 from the mainland - we're looking at around £3.5K for tractor and then around £800 for shipping! None available locally which is why our main tractor is an Inter rather than a Massey!

 

[Jawaswag]

(quoted from post at 01:39:10 08/08/11) I am wrong. Of course there is a torque converter behind the engine. However the rest is correct. So, if reverse is generally good, but forward isn't, then I don't think there is any problem with the torque converter. It doesn't change direction or function any differently. Rather, I think it would indicate a clutch problem. Those caps on the left provide access to the pressure regulator valves. There should be a 1/8" port on the top right side of the trans for testing pressures. Be careful about taking that plug out, as there is a small copper pipe attached to the bushing below, that must not come disconnected, or else a split will be your only hope for repair. The plug on the right is a filler port for the pump pickup. There is only the one trans filter, but there is a screen in the bottom of the sump. If you take it off, just be careful you don't dislodge the suction pipe going from that cover to the pump manifold. MK

Ok thanks, that helps. But as I don't have a gauge, I'll wait until I can get her into the workshop for that!

 

[MK in Ontario]

From what I have come to understand, it could quite easily be the
linkage. However, one really must be able to split the tractor to
properly repair this, as it continues inside the bell housing. I believe
there is a needle bearing or bushing where the linkage goes
through the housing that is critical to this repair. The gauge is
suggested to go to 400psi. I believe the high pressure should read
about 180psi when correct. These pressure tests, can help
determine clutch pack problems (or not).
MF 30B locking differential handle

 

[Jawaswag]

MK, Thanks! That's fantastic. I just need to find out where to get a mounting bracket and linkage for the diff lock now!

 

[MK in Ontario]

Gee, you're probably limited to a salvage yard on those, at least the
brake actuating bracket. The handle you can probably fabricate or
have fabricated. The brackets might be tough to find. You might
even be best off searching over here, since they look to be
identical, down to the hole for the park-brake activation rod.
Undoubtedly there would have been many more in service over here
(North America).