Mig vs Stick welders

[Anonymous-0]

If you were going to buy a new welder 220 volt Mig or AC/DC stick machine, which would you spend the money on? For years and years, all my welding has been with AC stick and the old girl has played out. What's y'all ideas?

 

[old]

I would stick to the stick the reason is to buy a good Mig welder that is worth owning they cost 3 or 4 times more then a stick welder will. I know I'll catch heck for this but a stick welder makes a stronger weld then a Mig will also unless you by the special wire and also use argon/carbon gas which also is something that you need to have on a good Mig welder. And yes I have welded with both type and also tig and did it for a living at one time

 

[Mike Groom]

I just replaced my 110 mig with a 220V Lincoln 180C,it will weld 3/16 with a single pass,it won't replace my stick welder for penetration on thicker stuff but it's a lot more versatile for overhead and vertical welding and you can always pick up a Tombstone welder for arc for about $100.00 used and they do a good job.Unless you weld a lot of thick metal my choice would be the Mig if I had to chose just one.

 

[Anonymous-0]

There's no easy answer to your question. Each type of machine has its pro's and con's. Are you mostly repairing or building new stuff? Do you have a big enough shop to bring everything inside? Will you ever have to weld outside? If most of your welding is on 3/16" and thicker steel, I'd go with a good AC/DC stick machine like an Idealarc 250. You can't compare a low end AC/DC machine(like a Lincoln AC 225/DC 125) to a higher end(220 volt) MIG machine. Compare a $1500 AC/DC machine to a $1500 MIG machine. With a MIG machine you'll need shielding gas and everything will have to be done inside, out of the breeze. A MIG machine is very versatile but if you want to have the most consistant and strong welds, it's hard to beat a stick machine. Puddles post of the poor weld on the tool talk forum is an example of what can happen with any wire feed process. Wire feed welding whether it's MIG or Flux-Core is more prone to flaws than the stick welding process. Not that wire feed processes can't deliver exceptional results but 9 times out of 10, an experienced welder would choose stick if they had to have the strongest weld possible. Also if you've been using a low end AC machine, going to a DC machine like an Idealarc will be night and day difference. Of course if you had a bigger budget you could get a dual process machine that would run MIG and stick. Hope this helps.

 

[JNP]

I think it depends on what you plan to do with it. We have a stick welder that we use when working on thicker or rusty metal and a smaller mig welder that we use mostly for new fabrication and some repairs. We probably use the mig welder for 90% of our welding but that's just us. If you are used to the stick and it has been working for you I would say save the money and get a stick.

 

[John730D]

If I were buying a new welder this would be the one.
Hobart AC/DC

 

[Anonymous-0]

You could look for a used machine like an Idealarc 250 AC/DC to save some money. An import machine like an Everlast 200 would be a lower cost option. Puddles is happy with his. MIG machines have a lot more parts that need repairing or replacing. Stick machines usually only need the covers taken off and the insides blown out every year or so.

 

[John730D]

I meant to add that it can be bought for around $425.00. Forget the list price shown.

 

[Anonymous-0]

I have a lincoln tombstone I bought for heavy repairs, and a Snap-on mig for lighter fabrication. The stick is great for outside work, because you don't have to worry about a breeze blowing away your shielding gas. If you go mig, be sure to get infinitely variable voltage adjustment. The detent pre-sets aren't worth a darn. Always right in between the heat you need.

If I had it all to do again, I would buy one of the portable lincoln 220v square wave machines. MIG, TIG and stick all in one light, easy to carry and stow box. Just change torches and add a gas bottle. Buddy has one and I'm green with envy. Saw one in a pawn shop for $400, but that was before I knew how good they were. Never shoulda passed it up.

 

[trucker 40]

You can find AC welders on Craigs list or classifieds about all the time.I bought one for 40 dollars in about 1987 and have used it quite a bit.However a MIG is sure nice to use everywhere that you can. I bought a 220 MIG from HTP America 15 years ago and it is a good welder.I just looked at their website and they have a 2400 MIG welder with a copper wound transformer which is smooth.If you weld with one that has a copper wound transformer you will notice the difference in how smooth it welds.
I think their number is 1 800 USA WELD.They are real nice people in the Chicago area.Be sure and get a Tweco gun so that you can get tips anywhere for it.They sell parts for lots of peoples welders and they can make you a Tweco type gun that you can get tips for about anywhere.Even if you don't buy one from them it wouldn't hurt to talk to them.They can tell you a lot about welders.You might even ask them if they have a trade in or a demonstrator and save some money maybe.
There is a welder that you can weld as a MIG and a stick.You could ask about one like that.I don't think HTP sells one like that,But I'm not certain.
Also Lincoln makes good MIG Welders and Miller,ESAB and lots of others.Try and stay away from the made in China stuff.

 

[trucker 40]

I don't know why you keep saying stick is stronger than MIG.Maybe years ago it was,but not now.I just looked it up.Lincoln says their 7018 is good for 76,000 lbs tensile strength and their wire for steel which is 70S something else which I forgot is good for 86,000 LBS tensile strength. Now as I remember from when I was a welder the MIG weld is a little more brittle.However, done right, the MIG weld is penetrated deeper.If you ever had to break a few welds with a hammer you would see that when you bust a good MIG weld it rips out the steel usually before the weld would ever break.It also does that with a weld done by 7018 if its done right.So a stick weld is not quite as strong as a MIG weld done right,but it is a touch more flexible.
In my experience the MIG weld holds up better to vibration.
MIG is stronger. MIG has a wide range you can use it for.From thin to thick.
It never hurts anything to have a stick welder and weld it up with 7018.Its a good strong weld.So is MIG.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Having both I will say that on the farm the stick welder is very handy. I have a couple of sets of welding lead extensions so I can weld a long ways from the welder, which is nice when you have equipment that you can't get inside or have things to be welded that aren't movable until fixed. Also like said there is no worries about the wind blowing the shielding gas away.

The MIG is handy if you can get it in the shop and have long enough reach with the lead to get to what needs to be welded.

 

[usetob]

Old, I've noticed on here that isn't much you haven't done for a living. I had a list at one time but lost it!

 

[504]

Every weld on a car or truck is MIG welded, buy a good 210 or 250 MIG and then buy a used stick from Craig s List.

 

[BCnT]

that hobaart aint got much of a duty cycle...think i'll stick with my ole Lincoln 225 cracker box...i've burnt 50# of rod in a day and it didnt even break a sweat.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Whether the welding machine uses copper or aluminum has zero effect on the actual weld. Copper has an advantage in that it will keep the same heat for prolonged periods. For most of the welding done by people on this forum, it won't make a bit of difference. Apparently Lincoln has never had never copper in the AC 225 and they've been sold for decades. Post 73 SA 200's are another example. They had some aluminum windings but as far as weld quality, were as good or better than any machine on the market.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Breaking a weld with a hammer is about the least definitive test of a weld process there is. For welding structural steel there isn't even a procedure to qualify MIG. If comparing MIG to other than low hydrogen(7018)rods then yes MIG is stronger. If you compare MIG to 7018, 7018 would ultimately be stronger. If MIG is used in spray arc would be close to 7018. In order to go into spay arc mode you need high volts and wire speeds(amps) as well as at least a 90% argon mix. The most common MIG gas is C-25 which is only 75% argon. Spray arc MIG can't be used for out of position(flat)welds. 7018 can be used in any position and still meet full strength requirements.

 

[old]

As I said I would catch heck and what I said has come true. The common cheap mig welder only makes a good small boat achor nothing more. A stick welder on the other hand can be picked up used for around $100-300 depending on it it is an AC/DC machine or just AC. A good mig welder will cost around $1000 or more used if you can find one that is still in good shape and up around $5000 for a new GOOD unit. As I said some one would hit me on it and you did just as I said would happen

 

[charles todd]

Hobart AC/DC Stickmate. Northerntool.com has them for about $450, FREE SHIPPING! I bought one about four years ago and rarely wish for a MIG.

CT

 

[rankrank1]

(quoted from post at 04:56:38 03/18/11) that hobaart aint got much of a duty cycle...think i'll stick with my ole Lincoln 225 cracker box...i've burnt 50# of rod in a day and it didnt even break a sweat.

Actually, I hate to admit this but the Hobart actually has a better duty cycle than the Lincoln (I have an older Lincoln). On the Hobart as you decrease the amps the duty cycle continuously increases at every setting as you lower the amps. On the Lincoln the duty cycle is 20% at every setting - the one exception was on the older model AC-225's the setting at 75 amps was 100% duty cycle and 20% at every other setting. That all said, many people as you have already admitted doing with your Lincoln, have welded continuosly with disreagard to duty cyle and never hurt those old Lincolns. My guess is the Hobart would perform similarly to the same abuse since the technology is so similar (i.e transformer based).

If I were intent on purchasing a brand new SMAW welder for home use; then I think I would go with the Hobart for several reasons. It is cheaper, has a better warranty, DC output on the Hobart is 160 amps as compared to only 125 amps on the Lincoln, and lastly the amp adjustment on the Hobart is incremently adjustable down to 1 amp increments where the Lincoln has tapped settings in jumps of 10-15 amp intervals. That all said, It is still hard to beat the Lincoln as they are so rugged and can be purchased cheaply on the used market since they are so common. Either unit makes a nice practical addition to a shop - lots of value for very little money.

 

[Red Roundhead]

Spend money on either a Miller or Lincon/Hobart ac/dc stick. What you want to pay for is the most stable power supply possible, because that the greatest factor in making good welds. That, and knowledge of what process you are doing! The cheap welders are just that; cheap. They melt metal erratically; they do not create a weld. Spend $500.00 on a Miller Thunderbolt. Keep it in a non-freezing location. Keep your rods dry and in about 60 F storage area. The small Miller and Lincon/Hobarts are low on the duty cycle, but good for general repairs. If you want to horse it like a pro, you are going to pay. Alot.

 

[rankrank1]

(quoted from post at 19:17:36 03/20/11) ...Keep it in a non-freezing location....

Please elaborate - Why is it important to store an AC/DC welder in a non-freezing location? I could maybe see the need for this on some of the newer inverter welders with the delicate electronics and circuit boards, but the Miller Thunderbolt, Hobart Stickmate, and Lincoln AC-225/DC-125 are all transformer based old school technology that has proven to be ruggedly reliable for decades.

I have on occasion lightly contemplated selling my older Lincoln AC-225 which is AC output only in order to purchase a Hobart Stickmate AC/DC output, but if I will have to store the new Hobart welder in a non-freezing environment then it makes my procastination decison even easier. I will defintely keep my current Lincoln as it is unaffected by poor storage conditions and in reality AC does all I need from a welder anyway.

Secondly save your money and skip the Miller Thunderbolt. The Hobart Stickmate and the Miller Thuderbolt are built on the very same assembly line and are identical in every way except the color of the outer sheet metal case - one is blue the other is tannish/gray.

 

[trucker 40]

You can get a Miller or a Lincoln for 600 to 800 dollars that run on 220.They will weld good and you can pick them up with one hand and carry them to where you need them.There are other good brands.You might have 1000 in one by the time you get a bottle and a few rolls of wire.But you could get a welder and a tank of CO2 and have quite a bit less than 1000 dollars in a 220 machine that will weld good.
If you want something bigger then its going to cost you from about 1500 up.Most stuff a farmer would ever need could be welded with a good portable Miller that runs on 220 for about 800 dollars.
You can buy all different kinds of buzz boxes too.You can get one that doesn't even have a cooling fan and not enough amps to light the smallest rods.
There is nothing wrong with MIG welding.Stick is definitely not better in every situation.

 

[trucker 40]

Hey,not everybody has some big bunch of equipment to test welds with.Ive only seen an X-ray machine and then they had a way of bending a piece of steel and they would look at it then.But to see if you are welding good or not,sometimes they would have you weld 2 pieces together and break them with a hammer just to see what kind of penetration you were getting.
I could care less how "definitive"you assume it is.It shows me if the weld is penetrating or just laying on top.It also shows if the steel breaks before the weld or not.To me that tells me whether or not its doing a good job or not.If the weld ever did break first it would be time to find out what was wrong.
Also I doubt if any farmers have X-ray machines or even a press to bend a weld in or if they would even know what they were looking at if they did see something.Most of them do have hammers and probably a sledge hammer and a vice.They could run a pass on some scrap.put it in the vise and break it with a hammer and see if they were getting penetration or if the weld was breaking.
Now because you tried to say something,I'm not sure what point you were trying to make,I still said the same thing,and I'm still right.

 

[old]

Never said a stick is better for every thing but for what the common man/farmer will need a stick is the cheapest and best way to go. For $100 or so and a box of 6011 rod a guy who know very little can patch a lot of stuff. I did weld for years Tig/Mig/Stick and made good $$ at the time but as I said for the common person hard to beat a stick

 

[Anonymous-0]

Keeping a trasnsformer out of -0 temperatures helps with longevity. The temperature extremes cause the insulation to break down more quickly. You can leave them in the cold; it just helps to protect your investment to keep them out of extreme anything. Keep the rods dry and @ temperature and sealed though. They break down faster than you think.

I'm cheap, so i try to make my purchases last.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[T_Bone]

"Whether the welding machine uses copper or aluminum has zero effect on the actual weld."


Dave, Had you actually had any long term welding experience, you would see just how asinine your statement is.

Copper windings has always produced a more stable arc.

T_Bone

 

[T_Bone]

"For welding structural steel there isn't even a procedure to qualify MIG"

Dave, it's statments like this is why I quit posting on welding topics a couple years ago. You found out how to use a search engine to return info that you can not understand about welding, and since that time you really post some wrong info on the subject.

There's been a WPS for Mig for over 40yrs.

T_Bone

 

[Scott Hightower]

If you were new to welding I would recommend the MIG because it is easier to use. Since you already know how to weld, you may want to get another stick. One advantage of the stick is deeper penetration on thicker material for repair work.

On the other hand, the MIG will save you a lot of time as far as clean up goes and it more versatile. You can weld much thinner material and can also weld aluminum as long as you use 100% argon as a shielding gas.

Scott
http://www.welders360.com/