Miller or a Lincoln?

[Chris(WA)]

I have a chance to buy an AC/DC stick welder. Two actually to choose from. A Miller Thunderbolt and a Lincoln tombstone style. Both are AC/DC machines of the same amp rating. Leads are comperable in length. No other accessories with either one.
Any preferences out there?

 

[wisbaker]

John Deere or IH? Ford or Chevy? Ruger or Winchester? Both are top names and usually make pretty good equipment- it's almost like a religion thing!

 

[Lanse]

Definatly take the stickmate/thunderbolt.

It puts out more amps on both DC and AC.

It has a better duty cycle, see above.

It is infinatly adjustable, the tombstone has tapped amperage. It can be a PITA.

JMHO, I have had a stickmate which is a re-badged thunderbolt for a little less cost, and I love that thing. Ive used it for everything, dozens of projects over the last year or so... I highly recommend it. Good luck

 

[sflem849]

(quoted from post at 06:38:37 03/20/12) Definatly take the stickmate/thunderbolt.

It puts out more amps on both DC and AC.

It has a better duty cycle, see above.

It is infinatly adjustable, the tombstone has tapped amperage. It can be a PITA.

JMHO, I have had a stickmate which is a re-badged thunderbolt for a little less cost, and I love that thing. Ive used it for everything, dozens of projects over the last year or so... I highly recommend it. Good luck

All that, plus I'm from WI so it is an easy choice. :lol:

 

[Texasmark1]

I always wanted a Lincoln but could never afford one. I bought an AC Miller 35 years ago ($130) and about 10 years ago updated to the AC/DC Thunderbolt....don't remember what I paid for it.....Bought the last stick welder the welding supply store had in stock.

Very happy with both and like the DC due to smoother welds, especially with 7018 sticks. The on off switch went out a few years ago so I just wired past the switch and use the wall plug for the switching function..... not that bad of an inconvenience. Too cheap to buy a new switch.

Mark

 

[old]

Look them over real good and compare duty cycles and amps and that type of thing. Both are good machines and $ for $ pretty even

 

[eastexan]

(quoted from post at 08:20:12 03/20/12) I have a chance to buy an AC/DC stick welder. Two actually to choose from. A Miller Thunderbolt and a Lincoln tombstone style. [color=red:adfb5f2a84]Both are AC/DC machines of the same amp rating.[/color:adfb5f2a84] Leads are comperable in length. No other accessories with either one.
Any preferences out there?

Chris,
On the two machines I think you're talking about, the AC amps are the same but the DC are different. The Thunderbolt will have more DC output.
Also, you can fine tune the Thunderbolt more than you can the Lincoln. Either one though is a good welder.

If though, you're talking about the large tombstone, the Lincoln Idealarc, then that one is most definately the better choice as it is an industrial welder. Much heavier though.

 

[eastexan]

double post

 

[Jerry/MT]

It depends on the models. A "tombstone" Lincoln IdealArc 250 has higher output current (both AC/Dc +/_, and infinetly variable current control. It"s comparable to the Miller DialArc 250"s.
The smaller "tombstone" AC/DC Lincoln 225/125 is a tapped transformer welder with incremental current controls and a lower duty cycle. This model is more compareable to the Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC

In my opinion, you can"t go wrong with either one of the smaller units IF you"re just going to use it occasionally for repair work.

 

[Ellis Kinney]

Chris: I hope you decide to buy the Miller. I own one and love it. It's fine tuning capabilities are a wonderful feature. Ellis

 

[Fred Martin]

This post makes me feel good, I had the Lincoln Idealarc when I was in business. Bought the TIG attachment for it and I think it was the same price as the welder new. You could get the gear motor attachment where you took the adjusting handle off and bolted it on and a switch taped to the leads to control the amps. Really a nice welder.
Now to your picking of the welders at hand: One thing I didn't see on giving you instructions...I would run 2 or 3 BIG rods with each welder and then get down to the welders level and smell the air coming out. If it smells like a transformer stink when it is going to go to the repair shop or junkyard, you'll know which one to buy. ohfred

 

[Stan in Oly, WA]

Hi Chris,

I've never owned a Thunderbolt, but I've owned and used a lot of other Miller (and Lincoln) equipment. I currently own a Hobart Stickmate, and an old Lincoln AC buzz box (old enough to go to 180 rather than 225 amps) and a Lincoln Idealarc. The Idealarc is in an entirely different league than any of those others---arguably the best single phase, transformer stick welder ever made.

Even the best companies occasionally make a model that just isn't very good. I've heard that about Miller's early 250 amp MIG welder, the MM 250, I think, and about one of Lincoln's early invertor stick welders. That's kind of the feeling I've developed about the Miller Thunderbolt. I can't remember anything specific I've heard against it, just this and that.

The issues of the Miller having the higher duty cycle and the infinitely adjustable amperage setting, as well as higher top settings in both AC and DC, are not quite as black and white as you might think. I owned the Hobart Stickmate for about ten years and I've used it a lot, but I'm not as wild about it as Lanse is with his. For one thing, the linkage to the movable shunt which controls the amperage is sloppy, so I can't trust that a setting I get cranking it clockwise is necessarily going to be the same as the same indicated setting from dialing it counterclockwise. Also, the polarity and mode selector doesn't always engage; sometimes when I go from AC+ to DC, for instance, I get nothing---no arc of any polarity. It's never failed to work after some fussing, but I really don't need that.

The advertised duty cycle is better with the Miller---inversely proportional to the amperage---while the Lincoln has a 20% duty cycle at all settings. But the Lincoln is not sensitive, in fact, it's famous for being able to ignore the duty cycle. That's not the way you'd want to run it, but I've frequently used it at a lot more than a 20% d/c without ever experiencing any problem.

The Lincoln tapped settings can't be fine tuned like the adjustable settings on the Miller, but they never go out of adjustment, either, as adjustable settings always eventually do. Anyway, fine tuning the arc on a stick welder is something the weldor has to be pretty experienced to actually take advantage of. The settings on the Lincoln are about 15 amps apart, and I maintain that you'd have to be pretty skilled to be dissatisfied having to weld with an arc that's 7-1/2 amps too high or too low---better than most non-professional weldors ever get, frankly.

If I had to choose between a new Thunderbolt and a new Lincoln buzz box, I'd probably go with the Thunderbolt. But if the choice was between two 25 year old welders (the Thunderbolt with the crank on the top) I'd feel that the Lincoln was the safer bet.

Stan

 

[old popper]

I have a Lincoln, mine is strictly AC, I also have used the Miller Thunderbolt AC DC. My problem with the thunderbolt was my employer downsized me from a Miller synchrowave 250 to the thunderbolt. That is like switching from a Cadillac sedan to a '50s VW bug. I now have my own synchrowave 250. Let me know if you know someone needing my Lincoln.

 

[Puddles]

(quoted from post at 14:39:03 03/20/12) My problem with the thunderbolt was my employer downsized me from a Miller synchrowave 250 to the thunderbolt.

Let me guess, the 1960's were very tough on your boss! :lol:

 

[Jason the Red]

Miller!!! Many good points as to why have already been made.

 

[Anonymous-0]

My father in law worked in a Chevy garage.They had a drill that had a by passed switch.One of the mechanics was putting the blue light on a new police car.The drill went thru and caught the headliner, ripped it completly out.No way would I run my welder with out a switch.I have a big 1/2 drill that would break your wrist if the bit caught and you had no switch.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Ive tried the Stick Mate adjustment and find it loose and sloppy.Wouldnt buy one.Most low end welders with adjustable shunts have problems.

 

[Anonymous-0]

If the Lincoln is an Idealarc 250 AC/DC it is a fantastic machine. If it's just an AC 225/DC 125, it's a low end machine but even though the Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC has higher DC current and continuous amp adjustment,I've found a Lincoln is easier to hold an arc.

If it were me, I wouldn't buy either one though. For a few bucks more you could buy a brand new Everlast 200 DC like Puddles bought and have 10 times the machine. If you want a used machine look for an Idealarc 250 or a Dial-arc 250. The Idealarc is the better of the 2 but the Dialarc is still night and day better than a Thunderbolt. Red-D-Arc was selling DC only Idealarc's with warranty for $500 a while ago. They are made by Lincoln with Red-D-Arcs name on them.

 

[Welding man]

I agree,it's all what you like,personally I like Fords and Dodges and hate Chebies. Oh we were supposed to be talking about welders. I have owned one or two of about all of them.Marquette Miller, Lincoln,Hobart, P and H, C K Systematics, Century and even an old Montgomery Wards that I don't know who built. Have had more problems out of the Millers than all the rest put together. To me it's a Lincoln hands down and oh by the way I went through Hobart's School.

 

[Texasmark1]

It's no drill and I certainly agree with you on not running one that you can't turn off instantly.

Mark

 

[Anonymous-0]

Its a poor mechanic who does not keep his tools in top shape.My Lincoln 225 was new in 1964.Its clean and is in good condition.Its a matter of pride in what I do.

 

[Texasmark1]

Woah on the name calling. If I don't feel like paying $65 for a switch on a welder when I can reach over to the wall outlet and remove it, that's my business. Like I said, a stick welder is not an electric drill, nor electric grinder, or things like that that can be a severe safety hazard.....and it is my shop and I do not do custom work for others.

Mark

 

[Anonymous-0]

My horse says whoa is the proper spelling.

 

[Anonymous-0]

So you have to do custom work for other's to consider an arc welder without a switch a severe safety hazard? Try explaining that to the insurance company when you put your claim in.

 

[Texasmark1]

What claim?

 

[Anonymous-0]

I guess you wouldn't have a claim because if the insurance company saw that your welder didn't have an on/off switch, they wouldn't insure you. Welding machines can go bad like anything else. The fact your switch quit working confirms that. I've seen sparks come from inside of welding machines. There are times when you might need to shut the machine off fast and can't get to the plug.

 

[Anonymous-0]

My welders and planer have the old crow foot range cords on them.The planer has a switch box mounted on it,planer runs on 25 ft extension cord #8 wire.Planer has to be shut off fast at times.Those crow foot plugs are hard to pull out.

 

[Texasmark1]

Well the plug is closer to where I weld than the machine and the power panel is about 2 steps away. It ain't no big deal guys. You do it your way and I'll do it mine. Only been stick welding for 35+ years. Only problems ever had were current set too low and rods sticking to the work and getting sparks down my boots when I forgot to pull my britches over them. Neither a big deal.