MSD 6a module, worth it?

[JD hauler]

it is worth it. its not about HP, its about reliability, if you stay with points, it just uses them as a trigger, the points dont need to be "perfect" anymore, the box just needs to see opened and closed to make it work. alot of guys are using the msd box with the pertronix module instead of points. both work, both arent cheap, but you can run a garden hose over these and they dont miss a beat, so in my opinion, its worth having both, guys spend alot on other stuff that really isnt that important, but if she wont light off , none of its worth a nickle, my two cents.

 

[MRGJNV]

What about the 6AL or 6AL2 programmable? I like the idea of a rev limiter but most rules say no rev limiter. Why is that?

 

[hired gun]

In 2005 on the NATPA there was a Farmall BN that had 13.6x38. This is inrespones to your (tempola) post on the Black Monday Harrisburg pictures. It won the championship in 2500 lb.

 

[james rumph]

Yes it is worth it. The combustion chamber design in your head is not designed for performance .

The MSD is a cdi box so you get a spark everytime at the same time no matter the rpm.

Under high rpm [not us] compression puts out the spark , msd stops that.

Keep the points and use them as a trigger as pointed out below. Buy the correct coil and wires that go with the MSD box.

MSD says "not" to use the solid core wires because of "rf" interferance if i recall.

With the MSD your able to open up the gap on the plugs for better burn of the fuel. You can open the gap up another .010 to .015 bigger.

I didn't see hp gain on the dyno but it starts easyer and has a much cleaner burn.

Just my thoughts...

 

[LONEWOLF1965]

I USED A MSD OFF ROAD ONE BECAUSE ALL THE SPARK IS UNDER 3000 RPM , IF YOU READ UP ON THE OFF ROAD ONE YOU'LL SEE THAT YOU HAVE MAX SPARK OUTPUT WITH THIS UNIT AT IDLE , JUST MY 2 CENTS

 

[james rumph]

The differance between the two is the removable rpm chip in the AL-2.

You really don't need the AL-2 due to the lack of rpm that we spin.

As far as max voltage at low rpms from the off road box ? I have never herd that before these are "CDI" boxes so rpm should not matter. I may be wrong so due your home work but the 6al is all that is really needed.

 

[RandyB(MI)]

After reading all below , Andy , as long as you have a dependable starting Farmall (which I assume you do or you would have mentioned it) then save your money for something that will actually HELP your tractor. Wonder why it is that people will spend hundreds on fancy "do nothing" electronics but pitch a fit when someone mentions using automotive quallity paint (which by the way IS a vast improvment)just because it costs too much?????? More people will have positive comments on your quallity paint job than they will for your "drag strip" electronics. Plus it will ADD to the value of your tractor.

 

[hobby77]

msd stands for multiple spark dist.
yes it is worth the cost.

 

[LW]

All 6 boxes multi spark below 3000rpm to keep the plugs clean. The offroad has all its internals potted in epoxy and are not servicable.(just FYI)

 

[Anonymous-0]

everyone has covered msd 6 boxes pretty well the only thing i have to add is 6 boxes are not reccomended for comp. ratios higher than 12.1

 

[MRGJNV]

(quoted from post at 05:51:30 11/27/10) everyone has covered msd 6 boxes pretty well the only thing i have to add is 6 boxes are not reccomended for comp. ratios higher than 12.1

care to elaborate on this?

 

[RandyB(MI)]

Tempola , after you buy one and get it installed and with no other changes would you be so nice as to post back and let us all know the results , positive or negative. We can all argue all day long about this but an HONEST report leaves not much room for arguement. Thanks in advance. RB.

 

[Anonymous-0]

if you had more spark and thus more spark energy to run a wider spark gap that tends to lean a engine up would giving it more fuel be another change bmaniac?

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 14:59:54 11/27/10)

(quoted from post at 05:51:30 11/27/10) everyone has covered msd 6 boxes pretty well the only thing i have to add is 6 boxes are not reccomended for comp. ratios higher than 12.1

care to elaborate on this?

I think i remember msd techs pointing it out to me last winter in the user instruction downloads from the msd site. Any ways they pointed it out to me verbally while I was on the tech line . I have to down load the adobe reader for 07 windows to see the user instructions recently changed from vista to 07. If you look and its not there I will see if I still have the pdf on file on the work computer.

 

[1965lonewolf]

thats correct lw but the off road one has alot more spark at 3000 then then the 6 , the 6 is made to rev and more spark at higher rpm

 

[james rumph]

Tempola:

I have in the computer at this very moment the 2009 MSD catalog with all the spes.

I looked at the 6-A
6-AL
6-AL2

I could not find a compression ratio limit in any data . The AL-2 is a nice unit not requireing the chips like the normal "AL" unit.

The primary and secondary voltage output is the same between them all. The only differance is what they do and how easy it is to dial them in for your needs.

All three give 20 degrees more of crankshaft rotation burn [spark].

One of the key features in a MSD unit is that it "stops" the spark from being put out due to compression at high rpm .

So never mind the facts from there CD do your home work on there website so you make the best choice for you . You will be happy with what ever one you buy.

I like that AL-2 unit i have the normal AL . The AL-2 wasn't out when i bought mine it shows that it came out in the summer of 08.

You could always step it up to the digital box but that comes with a much higher price tag but its features are real nice .

your able to dial the timing in ware and when you need it.

 

[RandyB(MI)]

I don't believe for a minute that multiple sparks will burn fuel more effeciently creating a "lean" condition which then would be remedied by richening the fuel / air ratio and thereby increasing hp. I believe that is the "jest" of your question as I read it. There is an optimum fuel / air ratio for a given engine dependent on the design of the engine (head , valves , valve timing , manifolds , bore / stroke etc. When one finds this ratio (called tuning) then it only takes ONE properly timed spark of the strength outlined in the posts below to ignite the complete mixture. So in answer to your question about richening up the mixture to take advantage of the multiple sparks to make more power??? Sure thing! Allowable variable. I'm not saying there are not applications for the electronics. All I am saying is he has a 11ell of a long way to go on his engine before ever reallizing a bennefit from them. To me you build your engine to the point where ignition is the weak point holding things back , then start updating. Bolting on fancy goodies from the auto racing world on a tractor doesn't impress anyone.

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 09:04:56 11/28/10) I don't believe for a minute that multiple sparks will burn fuel more efficiently creating a "lean" condition which then would be remedied by richening the fuel / air ratio and thereby increasing hp. I believe that is the "jest" of your question as I read it. There is an optimum fuel / air ratio for a given engine dependent on the design of the engine (head , valves , valve timing , manifolds , bore / stroke etc. When one finds this ratio (called tuning) then it only takes ONE properly timed spark of the strength outlined in the posts below to ignite the complete mixture. So in answer to your question about richening up the mixture to take advantage of the multiple sparks to make more power??? Sure thing! Allowable variable. I'm not saying there are not applications for the electronics. All I am saying is he has a 11ell of a long way to go on his engine before ever realizing a benefit from them. To me you build your engine to the point where ignition is the weak point holding things back , then start updating. Bolting on fancy goodies from the auto racing world on a tractor doesn't impress anyone.

bmaiac i never posted the multiple spark allowed you to open up the plug gap causing a lean condition . Its pure spark energy that allows it to open up the plug gap that causes a lean condition that would need more fuel introduced . James I am sure you also have the tech line number give the techs a call see if they are any legitimacy to my claim. I need the pdf file they gave me anyways.

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 11:02:15 11/28/10)

(quoted from post at 09:04:56 11/28/10) I don't believe for a minute that multiple sparks will burn fuel more efficiently creating a "lean" condition which then would be remedied by richening the fuel / air ratio and thereby increasing hp. I believe that is the "jest" of your question as I read it. There is an optimum fuel / air ratio for a given engine dependent on the design of the engine (head , valves , valve timing , manifolds , bore / stroke etc. When one finds this ratio (called tuning) then it only takes ONE properly timed spark of the strength outlined in the posts below to ignite the complete mixture. So in answer to your question about richening up the mixture to take advantage of the multiple sparks to make more power??? Sure thing! Allowable variable. I'm not saying there are not applications for the electronics. All I am saying is he has a 11ell of a long way to go on his engine before ever realizing a benefit from them. To me you build your engine to the point where ignition is the weak point holding things back , then start updating. Bolting on fancy goodies from the auto racing world on a tractor doesn't impress anyone.

bmaiac i never posted the multiple spark allowed you to open up the plug gap causing a lean condition . Its pure spark energy that allows it to open up the plug gap that causes a lean condition that would need more fuel introduced . James I am sure you also have the tech line number give the techs a call see if they are any legitimacy to my claim. I need the pdf file they gave me anyways.

have found most dont understand how to read the plug electrode to ensure they have proper timming for maximum power also.

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 11:06:12 11/28/10)

(quoted from post at 11:02:15 11/28/10)

(quoted from post at 09:04:56 11/28/10) I don't believe for a minute that multiple sparks will burn fuel more efficiently creating a "lean" condition which then would be remedied by richening the fuel / air ratio and thereby increasing hp. I believe that is the "jest" of your question as I read it. There is an optimum fuel / air ratio for a given engine dependent on the design of the engine (head , valves , valve timing , manifolds , bore / stroke etc. When one finds this ratio (called tuning) then it only takes ONE properly timed spark of the strength outlined in the posts below to ignite the complete mixture. So in answer to your question about richening up the mixture to take advantage of the multiple sparks to make more power??? Sure thing! Allowable variable. I'm not saying there are not applications for the electronics. All I am saying is he has a 11ell of a long way to go on his engine before ever realizing a benefit from them. To me you build your engine to the point where ignition is the weak point holding things back , then start updating. Bolting on fancy goodies from the auto racing world on a tractor doesn't impress anyone.

bmaiac i never posted the multiple spark allowed you to open up the plug gap causing a lean condition . Its pure spark energy that allows it to open up the plug gap that causes a lean condition that would need more fuel introduced . James I am sure you also have the tech line number give the techs a call see if they are any legitimacy to my claim. I need the pdf file they gave me anyways.

have found most dont understand how to read the plug electrode to ensure they have proper timming for maximum power also.

I will probably be accused of being a know it all but here is a well posted article on promblems the aviation industry has dealt with in aviation engines using magnetos.
http://www.lightspeedengineering.com/Technicalities/sport_aviation95.html

 

[james rumph]

I have to agree with Mitch , no one said it caused a lean condition. With the added and constant voltage it allows you to open the gap so you have a more complete burn.

If I.H was going to reperduce say a "M" tractor today 2010 it's safe to say it would have some form of a MSD box on it [CDI].

C.D.I boxes are used on far more things then you will even know.

I was shocked when i just added the MSD coil the way it started and the way it ideled.

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 17:19:49 11/28/10) I have to agree with Mitch , no one said it caused a lean condition. With the added and constant voltage it allows you to open the gap so you have a more complete burn.

If I.H was going to reperduce say a "M" tractor today 2010 it's safe to say it would have some form of a MSD box on it [CDI].

C.D.I boxes are used on far more things then you will even know.

I was shocked when i just added the MSD coil the way it started and the way it ideled.

heres the email from msd tech ig it works
question On a performance engine at what compreesion ratio should a 7al box be considered over a six and a 8 al over a 7
Dear Sir:
6 series – 9.5 or 10:1 compression max.question
7 series – 10.5 – 14:1 compression
8 series – 14:1 or higher especially when using a boosted application.
Thanks,
MSD Tech
my memory had failed me and its actually less than i remember

 

[Superih]

Intersting, I can however tell you that the 6A box works very good on an engine designed to 12.5/1 static compression, and over 300 psi rolling compression. It has no fouling problems and makes pretty good power for its size.

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 13:24:44 11/29/10)
Intersting, I can however tell you that the 6A box works very good on an engine designed to 12.5/1 static compression, and over 300 psi rolling compression. It has no fouling problems and makes pretty good power for its size.

I have also ran boxes that didnt fit this recommendation as well and thought the box was helping me but now that I am in the know. I wonder what that engine would have done if a box that fit msd techs recommendations had been used.