My 8N wont start.

[Anonymous-0]

Started my 49 8n yesterday with no problems.Switched the implements,towed a trailer,no problem.Added some oil,dumped in some gas. and aired the tires.Now this morning Henry refuses to start. Turns over nice and strong. Its getting gas,but just wont fire.Im not much of a mechanic,and dont have a meter to check for spark.I did tune it up 2 years ago,and it probably has 20 hours on it since.Any suggestion would be appreciated,but please keep it simple as I aint the sharpest tool in the shed.

 

[souNdguy]

No meter needed to check for spark.. all you need are eyes.

Pull a plug wire and hold it near the block and spin her over... got spark?

either have to pull the rubber boot back to do this.. or use spare plug clipped into the holder and then.. you can rest it against the head or something so you don't get shocked.. open the gap to about 1/8 to 3/16 " to see the spark better.

If you havn't done anything to it in 2 years, and it has no spark.. it may just need the points cleaned... pulling a piece of brown paper bag or heavy white typing paper thru them will clean small corosion.. heavier stuff may need an hone.. but keep in mind that once you file or sand points. the generally don't last as long. but you should still get some usefull seie out of them.

if it does have spark, pull the plug on the carb bowl nd drain gas into a jar.. should maintain a steady stream.. if it just drips or dribbles.. check for an obstruction.. perhaps in the flaotvalve or tank valve or screens.. adding fuel may have stirred up some gunk.

if no spark and fuel looks good, jumper a wire from battery hot to coil top and see what ya got.. if that helps.. somewhere around the ignitin switch or the resistor you have a bad connection.. dirty connection.. or a bad / open resistor or open key switch ( meter is usefull here.. though a test lamp will work... no test lamp/ get a 12v bulb.. like a marker lamp or brake lamp and some wire and make a temporary one! )

post back

soundguy

 

[Britcheflee]

If you can get a meter then you certainly will find tracking down any electrical problem much easier. Have you tried pulling one of the spark plugs and holding it against the block whilst turning over the engine? This will at least let you know that you are getting a spark at the plug - if there is no spark then you have the first real clue as to what the problem is.
Can you make a tester with a suitable bulb to check if you have power?
if so, or if you can get a tester then my next check would be to touch one side on to the nut on the coil that the small wire goes to and then the other to ground with the ignition switch on - if you have power there then you most likely have a problem in your distributor/points etc.

Finally, if it was going fine then suddenly stopped I would also check all connections to ensure nothing has just worked loose.


Lee

 

[Britcheflee]

Whew! Glad to see that my advice was not too far off from one of the real experts here!


Lee

 

[Dell (WA)]

Billie......ennytime you have starting issues, change yer sparkies, don't argue! Modern no-lead gasoline leaves invisible deposits on yer center electrodes and them lazy sparkies just slide down the insulator 'stedda' jumpin' the gap like you want'em to. Don't throw yer FLOODED sparkies away, just clean'n'dry them one-atta-time in HOT running engine. And save'um fer next time you can't gitter to start, and there will be a next time. Recommend AutoLite 437's gapped 0.025".

Normally, yer points will last 200hrs. But can gitt invisible corrosion between open points overnite and kill yer sparkies. Clamp a dollar bill between the points and pull thru to polish yer points. (cheap)

With a test-lite (ho-made or store bott, $10 cheap) you can test to see iff'n you have volts 'cuz the lites lite iff'n you have volts. It don't gitt much simpler than that.

I flunked mind reading, just ask my ex-wife, but based upon yer mindless complaint, I'd guess its yer weaksister ignition switch. $10 (cheap) ......Dell, the mind reader

 

[Billie R. Smith]

Thanks Guys. I printed your replies and will head out back between raindrops. So far I have removed the plugs,(autolite 437s)cleaned them and plugged them into the wires and laid thenm on the head and cranked it over. NO spark.Also bypassed the ignition switch. No spark.With the distributor mounted in the front how do I best access the points?Now that I think about it,they may have beeb overlooked before.

 

[souNdguy]

2 bolts and the distrib comes right off.

just unlatch the coil bail and pop the distrib cap off.

should only take a couple minutes to drop in new points and condensor.. or inspect, regap and clean the ones you have... then pop back on.. put bolt sin finger tight and spin rotor with other finger till the drive pops into the offset tang and then take the bolts down.

soundguy

 

[Bruce (VA)]

There are ways to check for spark & fuel that work & ways that don't. For example, having gas to the carb is nice, but having it past the float is what counts! That’s why removing the bolt in the bottom of the carb is the way to do it. And, same thing w/ spark at the plugs. Some folks think that checking for spark means pulling a plug wire off & looking for one. Well, it's the distance the spark jumps at the plug that gives you the info you want. Get an old plug, open the gap to at least 3/16" ground it to a rust & paint free spot on the engine, (don't just lay it on the head) turn the key on & crank the engine. If the spark jumps the 3/16” gap, you probably don’t have a spark problem. If it won’t jump the 3/16” gap, you have a spark problem. It takes about 17kv to jump a 3/16" gap, so that's why you need to use a spark plug. Or, a store bought plug checker. There are other good ways to check for fuel & spark, but these ways work for me.


The front distributor was designed to come off of the tractor to replace/adjust the points. Remove the wire on the coil, remove the coil bail, remove the distributor cap & take the two bolts off. The base of the distributor has an offset tang & can only go back one way unless you really force it on. Look at how the points & condenser set in the distributor before you start pulling it down! If this is your first time doing it, draw a sketch! Make sure you are using quality parts; the points should have a phenolic rubbing block & not the cheap white plastic crap. Be careful not to ground the tip of the condenser wire to the body of the distributor when you replace the points. Do not break the little copper strip that goes to the points. (If you do, make another out of the old set of points) Also, make sure the condenser wire does not go through the same opening in the distributor that the coil pig tail does. The condenser wire goes the opening on the top right. Look at the old points; are they burned, pitted or mis-aligned? Check the point gap, .015 on all four lobes. Make sure you have the star washers under the screws on the points.

Next, with the distributor still off the tractor, install the coil. Look at the pigtail on the coil; is it touching the brass screw inside of the distributor? Don’t trust your eyes; test for continuity from the top of the coil to the points. If you do not have continuity, stretch the pigtail a bit until you do. (some people would rather put a small washer under the brass screw) Look at the little tab opposite of the pigtail; bend it a bit also to insure that it will contact the distributor cap. At this point, I just put the distributor, coil & cap all back on the tractor as a unit (it helps to loosen the fan belt). The reason I do this is because it is real easy to get the cap or coil mis-aligned trying to put it back together one piece at a time & the result is something gets broken or you get a ‘no spark’ problem.

Check out tip # 39 at the link below; a good set of manuals are a great help.

Post back w/ results or any more questions.
50 Tips

 

[Kenster]

(quoted from post at 13:23:30 05/26/09)

Get an old plug, open the gap to at least 3/16" ground it to a rust & paint free spot on the engine, (don't just lay it on the head) turn the key on & crank the engine. 50 Tips

Always wondered about this step. If you are sitting, or standing at the business end of the tractor, turning the key and cranking the engine, How can you see if spark is occuring? Or.. do you turn on the key, then crank it by hand by turning the fan blades?

 

[Dell (WA)]

Billie........ya just can't lay yer sparkies on top of the cylinder head and expect to see sparkies. Why? 'cuz yer cylinder head is PAINTED and paint is an insulator.

Howsomevers; I'd recommend you make one of my calibrated sparkie testers. Take enny ol'sparkie and bend the side electrode out for a full 3/16" gap. Clamp the metal shell with visegrips to handy bracket so you can see the tester gap. Plug enny sparkie wire to top of tester. Now with tranny in neutral and ignition switch ON, crank yer starter motor and watch yer calibrated tester for sparkies while standing on the ground. Do the sparkies jump yer tester gap with blue-snot authority? or are they wimp yellowish-orangish poor excuses??? or NO sparkies at all???? Report back.

You do know it is a 2-bolt, 15-min job to remove yer frontmount distributor and check yer ignition points (gap = 0.015) on the kitchen table don't you? Just unsnapple yer 4-nipple cap and letter dangle, and away you go. You cannot re-install outta time 'cuz yer distributor is driven by an "off-set" tang scheme. Just gently start yer 2-bolts and slide yer mount against the block while twisting yer distributor rotor until everything falls into place and NO GAP between block and distributor body. Simple, eh? Now tighten yer 2-bolts and snapple yer cap, attach yer coil top wire, and yer done. .......Dell, yer self-appointed sparkie-meister

 

[Bruce (VA)]

Soundguy uses a clip to hold the plug to the block. I just use pliers. Hook up the plug to the 3 or 4 wire, hold the plug w/ the pliers against the manifold, lean over & press the starter button w/ the key on. If the pliers slip against the metal on the plug, you will be more careful next time!
50 Tips

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 16:15:25 05/26/09) Soundguy uses a clip to hold the plug to the block. I just use pliers. Hook up the plug to the 3 or 4 wire, hold the plug w/ the pliers against the manifold, lean over & press the starter button w/ the key on. If the pliers slip against the metal on the plug, you will be more careful next time!
50 Tips

.........and you will know there is some kind of spark there! Blue? Yellow?
Couldn't see for all the hollering? :lol:

 

[Bruce (VA)]

This method is also known as the "snot maker"....it will clean your sinuses out!

 

[Billie R. Smith]

Thanks again fellas. I found my spark tester that I bought for checking lawn mower spark.Nothing.The carb is 2 years old and is getting a steady stream of gas when the bolt is removed.I think I will pick up a complete tune up kit and pull the distributor out and give it a shot.Thinking about converting to 12 volt also. My wifes car is in the shop,so she is using my truck which means it will be a couple days befor I can get the parts. Will report back as soon as I gitter done.

 

[Britcheflee]

It is not difficult to remove the front distributor and coil - although doing anything in the rain is a pain - however, you may wish to save yourself some time by checking there is power to that small nut on the top of the coil - if you have no power there then there is something wrong further back down the line - I only remove one plug and just hold it by hand firmly against some bare metal - you may see a spark or get a jolt to really tell you that you have power to the spark plug.

There is a good diagram somewhere on this site that someone has of the distributor/points - I guess a weak spot in the system is the flat metal contact between where the pigtail presses down and the points - mine was broken and I just made a new connection with a heavy wire.

For sure a cheap volt meter would be a good tool to have - even the cheapo small ones can test voltage as well as continuity in a circuit - I would put that on your shopping list right away.


Lee

 

[Dell (WA)]

Billie........hey! hey!! HEY!!!, only 1-problem atta time. Its the RULES!!! Gittchur sparkies fixed and then think about yer need for 12v electrics. .....Dell, a 12v advocate for the right reasons and a tune-up is NOT the right reason

 

[Dunk]

It ain't chur PTO shaft!!!!!

 

[Billie R. Smith]

Looks like I need to buy me a voltage tester first.Maybe take a walk to the auto parts in the morning.

 

[Britcheflee]

You will be glad you did - see if they have the ones with the alligator clips on the end of the wires - makes it easier to use.

As Dell has pointed out many times - and, something I have found myself, if everything is in good order then the 6 volt system will start it up just fine.

I have a 1953 Mercury with 6 volt system and an International Truck S120 with 6 volt and now, my 8N with 6 volt and they all start right up providing the battery is good and charged. My 8N literally starts at the first push of the button with the new ballast resistor installed.

Lee


Lee

 

[Bruce (VA)]

"Thinking about converting to 12 volt also."

Why?

Other than brighter lights, a faster spinning starter & the ability to operate 12v auxiliary equipment, a 12v conversion isn't going to make a poorly running tractor run better. From my experience, I've only found two reasons to convert an N to 12v: If you need to run 12v equipment (sprayers, pumps, lights, etc) or your N has poor compression (like less than 90 lbs) and you do not want to rebuild it, then a 12v conversion makes sense. Otherwise, some folks end up trading one set of problems for another. If an N is hard to start in cold weather (or any weather) they should find out why & fix it! These tractors have low compression, low HP engines and will start just fine on 6v.

There is nothing inherently 'wrong' w/ a 12v conversion. The problem is that there are about 6 different ways to convert the tractor to 12v, all of them work, and an infinite number of ways to do it wrong. If the owner has a basic understanding of tractor mechanics, he could buy a quality kit & do it correctly. Or, he could buy an alternator & fabricate brackets. Of course, if the owner had a basic understanding of tractor mechanics, he could just as easily fix the problem that he was trying to cure with the 12v conversion. Most problems we read about w/ 12v conversions are as a result of folks getting in over their heads trying to fabricate a conversion, using inferior kits or using kits w/ directions written in Chinese, or buying tractors w/ "Bubba" conversions and now the new owner is stuck with trying to figure it out. All four of my N's are 6v & they all four start the first time, every time, no matter what the weather. You will find that to be the case with folks who live in a lot of places much colder than VA.

Now before the 12v advocates give me a spanking, let me add that lots of folks around here have 12v conversions & are perfectly happy w/ them because the conversions were done correctly. 12v is also more forgiving of poor grounds/weak cables, etc than 6v, so keeping everything "clean, bright & tight" in the system is not as critical. 12v gives you twice as much current & a faster spinning starter. And, because 6v headlights are 35w & 12v are 55w, the headlights are brighter.

You can convert it to 12v & then you will end up w/ a 12v tractor that still won't start!
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