Natpa rules meeting

[Josh Blackburn]

My uncle Tom Chapman and I have been wanting to make the rules meeting to try and push for two barrels on John Deeres in div 3. I brought it up to a respected person on the board who is hopefully going mention it at the meeting. Farmall M's can run 450 lp heads and other brands can do similar. The g went straight to the 70, so why can we have the same advantages? A two barrel on a Deere isn't going to give us 50 hp and will not make our tractor go faster in 3.5 mph. Classes, it will help I'm not saying it won't, but at all our local clubs we can run them and I'm sure a lot of other people have the same local situation. It would be great if there was some John Deere people at the meeting who would stand up and push for this. What are some of you guys that pull other brands opinions on this matter?

 

[One outsiders views]

I think a few rules need reviewed in my opinion. I don't see why the Div 3 doesn't make the move to 5mph, there's plenty of horsepower in that class to support that move.

Secondily, with speed limits and RPM limit I do not see why there has to be such strict rules on carbs, manifolds, heads, etc... The IH and Allis are allowed to mix and match the rest should too. Let the speed limit control everything. I understand setting tight rules on Div 4, because there is no speed to govern things but who cares 3, 3.5, etc. espically with a tire limit whats the big deal. It would open the classes to more tractors around the areas.

Look at the numbers, the eastern pulls have the better attendance and in that area speed limit and tire size governor things not engines, weight restricitions, etc... Take the 2t for example they loosened up some rules, for instance you scale you pull it, and that class has really take off.

Again just some ramblings from an outsider, but I for one would join the NATPA and frequent more pulls if the rules were altered slightly.

 

[6pack]

I wish NATPA would make the rules for DIV3 similar to USAP. I have not pulled NATPA because i have a 1100 massey head on my oliver. If it bolts in to the factory mounts it should be allowed. YOU WEIGH IT YOU PULL IT

 

[Gary Baker]

Outsider, the NATPA does'nt make the rules the membership does. Go join and vote! Thats how things get changed

 

[MH55]

So I should bolt a Massey Harris 55 engine into a 33 chassis and pull with it? Will bolt right in to the framerails with NO modifications to frame or sheetmetal... Ought to be fun to have a block capable of approx 800 cubic inch in the 3500 lb class. Or I could bolt a 585 MM diesel into a GBD chassis and run it with direct injection and an inline pump... Again will bolt in and fit... This ought to be fun!

NATPA rules are not perfect but the engine "limits" exist for a reason.

 

[Josh Blackburn]

My intentions on this post aren't to go crazy. A 70 60 50 JD are legal and you can pull the two barrel on them. They replaced the g a b just like the 450 replaced the 400 and super m and so on. Columbia is along way for us. Or we would be there.

 

[Anonymous-0]

mh 55 seems to always have all the answers on here no matter what the topic ask him no it all if you ask me

 

[lazy A]

WOW NATPA must not be like are local club. We can take a vote and it will be 80% in favor of changing the rule and they say were not going to change anything because thats not what we want.

 

[6pack]

MH55 , My Dad pulls Masseys, and I would LOVE to put a 55 motor in his 33. That thing would run with the 500ci Oliver 77, 600 ci JD B, and others

 

[Josh Blackburn]

600 ci b? I've never heard of a 500 ci b running

 

[Big Jugs]

In D3 I would say let it go....Deeres can use powerblocks, and run the higher rpms of later tractors, and the speed limit governs it. Let the 2 barrels in.

 

[6pack]

Josh, You would have to put that Oliver governor rolling around in the back of your truck on it to get the real power....

 

[Anonymous-0]

Lazy A, they should form a committee to determine what they want, I mean what everybody wants, and then do what they want, voting will never work. note the sarcasm

 

[MH55]

Wow, did I rattle someone's cage...

I don't have all the answers. Trust me, I'm just another goofball with an opinion.

Opinions are like a$$holes, everyone's got one!

Last time I checked there were guys who posted much more regularly than I do. When I do know something I'm not afraid to share it. If I have offended you, I apologize, was never my intent. (assuming this response is due to our 260/277 discussion on the MH board)

 

[MH55]

Two barrel on a Deere is a much more agreeable change than what some people suggest. Most other makes are allowed to run propane and/or aftermarket replacement manifolds on Div 3 tractors.

12 port heads on an Oliver... Another whole ball of wax.

 

[HOSEY]

JOSH & GARY
I WOULD LIKE TO PULL IN NATPA ENEVTS. BUT WITH MY
G WITH A TWO BARREL CARB I WILL RUN IN DIV. 4
I HAVE A LARGE CUBIC IN. ENGINE BUT THE 2 CYLINDER WILL NOT STAY WITH THE BIG 5 STARS.
IF I WAS ABLE TO PULL IN DIV. 3 I WILL BECOME A
MEMBER.
THANK YOU
LARRY HOSE

 

[Dirt Slinger]

Lets up thse speed limit in div. 3 , to 4.5 or 5mph, and put a limit on div. 4, say 8 or 9mph, and make things interesting.

 

[Gus Hansen]

How about letting the 77 oliver run in the 3500# weight class with the rest of the tractor there size. there isn"t one wc runing out there that has its own engine they all have gleaner,d17,or wd45 engine.

 

[Mike N Mo]

Their weight restrictions in the lower weight classes make me think that when those rules were put into place that a few poeple were scared that a 6 cly Oli would run all over their precious Allis WC's. It's funny that a 350 Farmall is legal at 3500#, but I'd guess they were never that light for their shipping weight.Same deal with 1940 and newer JD A's not allowed below 4500#, but a 1939 and older A can run at 4000#. I have an owners manual for a 1941 A that lists the shipping weight under 4000#, and the older A's can use all the engine parts from the early styled A's anyway. Can't figure out the logic behind that rule at all.



The last NATPA rules meeting that I attended raised the question of opening up Division V to allow 1960 model tractors in. There were good reasons to allow it, mainly to try to boost the numbers in those classes, but a group of pullers representing a particular brand cried foul pretty loudly. Guess they were scared to have one more tractor in their class, and it was voted down.

Something else that needs updating is the rpm limit in Div III. Up it to 20-30% over high idle, and don't give me the "safety" speech. It doesn't make any sense that you could take the same tractor, add fenders and a dead man throttle and run in DIV IV at 20% over and be legal, but if you run it that way in DIV III it'll blow up at 20% over. The naysayers to this will be the guys with the $15-20,000 engines that are afraid that they'll get beat by a tractor with half the HP running a gear lower and a few more RPM's.

At 3.5 MPH, if you can make the weight, hook it and pull, The speed limit takes care of big engine vs smaller engine, although you still need something with enough balls to be able to run at the prescribed speed limit.

If the voting members would make updates to modernize the rules package, I might even consider pulling with them again, even though a couple of their elected officials (I won't call them leaders, they haven't earned that moniker from me) went out of their way to make me feel very unwelcome at the last pull I was at.

End of rant, typing this made me thirsty

 

[Anonymous-0]

Are they still running the same stupid rules as they always have? No 1958 tractors in anything but , what Div 5 , 50 year old tractors and beacause farmall built 6 cyl with torques you cant run them in Div 2 or 3 how sad .

 

[One outsiders views]

Something that would be very interesting to me would be to have the NATPA, list some of the proposed rule changes that have been suggested in an online POLL. Basically a theoretical what if election online, and see what the results come back as... If nothing else would make for another interesting converstation piece.

Personally, I like the way they did it at the MidAtlantic Pull, big numbers in turns of tractors, really haven't heard a complaint about rules, and it works....Is it perfect probably not, but there is and never will be a solution that will please EVERYONE, so why not try something different for awhile. Sure would be nice not to have to change things just to pull each weekend.

 

[jd b puller]

Every "Brand" puller will have their own special agenda. Deere guys will want the duplex heads and powerblocks, Moline guys will want the HD800 and all the other combos you can slap together, Oliver guys will want the 310 and 320"s in their 77"s. Farmall guys will want the RD"s, etc

I live too far away from the NATPA pulls to attend but will throw a nickel"s worth of thoughts in anyways.

With Div 2T basically being a Div 3 with different tires, I"m with the other guys, put a 4-5MPH limit on Div III and a 10-12 on Div IV.

Down here, the "open" class is similar to Div IV except with a 12MPH speed limit and the RPM limit is typically just 2500, doesn"t matter whether it"s a Deere or a Farmall or Oliver. Makes it fair for all.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Guys, I've been in and out of the sport since I was 12 I am now 27. I served in the Army and know right and wrong. There's a tech commitee within NATPA to determine the can's and cannots. I know that I've worked local, IN, and NATPA events. There is always someone that trys to get around the rules one way or the other. From what I have experienced, which is a LOT, it always fair. Suck it up and find a different way. Local has nothing to do with National. Maybe your local club should think about taking in what the National level is putting out, instead of going around it. The main thing is SAFETY. I know if they haven't adopted it yet. You better make your point well heard and understood! I haven't been around the sport since I joined the Army but from what I hear everything goes just fine the way it is. Like I said earlier maybe try running your local group in accordance with NATPA and you'll see why they do what they do. Sorry guys but it irritates me because when I started out and then was around it I ubnderstood why the rules were the way they were. Just think about that.

 

[mshultz]

I agree 100% with 95% of what he says

 

[Josh Blackburn]

Ok first of all a two barrel isn't going to make it unsafe. Your'e 27, your opinion is out dated. You out of anyone should be in favor of bringing in more hooks and more competitive tractors. I enjoy natpa pulls but other people dog on them because there rules aren't fair in all cases. Instead of everyone wishing the natpa was more like a local fun club that has fair rules they can be the club everyone else wants to be like! People put 10g to 50g into there engines and are limited to 10% rpm. That's plain crazy. We need to take the sport to the next level before it dies out!

 

[Mopower]

I'm an MM guy and I say Oliver takes the hardest hit of anyone in the NATPA rules.

 

[Mopower]

I don't really see how a Duplex carb installation compares to the gains from an HD800 in an MM, but I say go ahead. A 70 is just "Super" G. I didn't even know double barrells on old Deere's were illegal. It's sort of a no-brainer and it was a factory improvement on an existing series.