Need expert advice

[heybusdriver]

Today I was removing head studs from my head , unfortunately 1 broke off at head , see picture, I am hoping to get advice from TOH or Zane or some-one that has had this expience.

 

[Bob Harvey]

Stan, whatever you do , DO NOT try an 'ezee out'. Heartbreak will occur. Try penetrating oil, heat and a small drill in the CENTER (hard to do). Then progressively (sp?) enlarge the drill size until nothing is left but the metal in the threads. These can be picked out. Others will have better ideas. HTH

 

[xring 223]

I was a coal mine mechanic we would weld a washer to the broken bolt and douse with water quickley and they usualy came out some times you had to add a nut with a secomd weld and water also they make a left hand drill bit that works very good good luck

 

[NY 986]

The safe thing to do is attempt to drill the old bolt out. Take the other part of the broken bolt and place it in a vise and take a puncture wound punch and ding the center most point. Then take a very small width drill and attempt to drill. The bolt may be too hard to drill but at least you will have the trial and error done without putting the block at risk. If you can drill the bolt then you can attempt to drill what is in the block and make sure your punch is centered before proceeding onward. <Be sure not to drill as far as to interfere with the threading in the block plus asses the depth you need to go by comparing a good bolt to the broken bolt.br> If the bolt is too hard to drill manually (make sure you are using a sharp bit) and if you do not need the tractor in the near future then periodically soak the bolt with a penetrating oil such as PB blaster or Thrust. In the mean time cut a slot at the top where a screw driver could be applied to twist the bolt out via the slot.
If your time is limited or soaking appears futile then heating the bolt may prove the only way to get the bolt out. Cut the slot mentioned above first and inspect the area within 6 inches for parts that would readily be damaged by heat. This could be the water pump (bearing) or the piston plus sleeve. These parts need to be remove from the vicinity of the broken bolt. A Burns-a-matic torch can be used but an oxy-acetylene torch will be more effective. Heat the bolt but limit exposure so the bolt only begins to exhibit color change then stop. After cooling attempt to twist out. Repeat several times till bolt comes out. If it will come it should come after several heatings. If not then the more drastic step of removing the block, stripping the parts, and then send the block out to be hot tanked which may boil the rust out.
I make no promises as to what will work and heating the area around the bolt may very well create permanent damage so be fore warned.

 

[NY 986]

I could not get my reply to edit and change for the preview but do not drill any closer than 1/8 inch of the threads of the block and compare to a good bolt against the broken bolt so as not to drill any deeper!

 

[John730D]

Lay a nut on top of the bolt, weld nut to stud through center of nut, remove stud. Or weld washer to stud then weld nut to washer. Easy as pie. I have done it many,many times.

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 19:24:04 02/07/13) Today I was removing head studs from my head , unfortunately 1 broke off at head , see picture, I am hoping to get advice from TOH or Zane or some-one that has had this expience.

IMO they typically wring off because the threads that protrude into the water jacket get a thick layer of rust and scale on them. That crud causes the threads to bind up when you try to unscrew the stud and cranking up on the stud simply exceeds it's tensile strength and "pop". I have found that working the stud back and forth cleans the crud off and helps prevent binding but it can be tedious - 1/4 turn out, 1/4 turn in, repeat ad nauesem trying to get it to turn "just a little further" out on each iteration. Resist the temptation to force it or you will get to the "pop" stage ;-)

OK - so you already popped it. If the threads are coated in rust and jammed up - and that is almost surely the case - the welded nut won't get you anywhere. Time to drill baby drill!! Ideally you would like to grind (or mill if you could) the top of the fracture off flat - at least in the center where you will be starting the drill. Then get yourself a #3 machinists center drill/countersink - cost you about $5 - and use it to put in a pilot hole in the center That will help prevent your twist drill bit from wandering. You don't need to drill a full depth countersink - a slight flare is enough - but get as close to center as possible. Once you have the pilot hole in drill out it in a couple steps until you get close to the threads in the block. From there pick the remnants out. Good luck!!

TOH

PS&gt; If you have ANY doubts about your abilty to do it without screwing up teh block take it to a machine shop. They charge less toremove broken bolts than they do to repair the damage from a botched attempt at removing one.

 

[pconnie]

I've had good luck with soaking with, atf-acetone mix penatrating oil..soak..tap a center punch on bolt..let it rest overnight..repeat several times..i use the punch on edge of bolt..this vibration seems to get the oil down to the rust..when it moves..grind slot ..remove with screw driver..hth ..phil

 

[Ultradog MN]

This is the best advice John.
Nothing is as effective as this technique.
And yes, if you have trouble welding through a nut to the stud then weld on a washer first. Then weld the nut to the washer.

 

[POPGUN]

I would give this some time for more input and get more opinions. That stud is very shiny so the shank was not cracked or bad so those threads are jammed up tight and this is no place to take a chance. Wait for Zane or old to chime in and check the archives.

 

[504]

This is a "try before you do any of the good things you have read here first" heat the bolt with any torch, LP will work fine, get it as hot as possible and then melt wax around the threads. Candle, sealing, whatever kind you have around will work, as it will draw down into the threads and loosen the rust. Then drill it out and most of the time it will screw right out.

 

[Hobo,NC]

(quoted from post at 04:50:05 02/08/13)

(quoted from post at 19:24:04 02/07/13) Today I was removing head studs from my head , unfortunately 1 broke off at head , see picture, I am hoping to get advice from TOH or Zane or some-one that has had this expience.

IMO they typically wring off because the threads that protrude into the water jacket get a thick layer of rust and scale on them. That crud causes the threads to bind up when you try to unscrew the stud and cranking up on the stud simply exceeds it's tensile strength and "pop". I have found that working the stud back and forth cleans the crud off and helps prevent binding but it can be tedious - 1/4 turn out, 1/4 turn in, repeat ad nauesem trying to get it to turn "just a little further" out on each iteration. Resist the temptation to force it or you will get to the "pop" stage ;-)

OK - so you already popped it. If the threads are coated in rust and jammed up - and that is almost surely the case - the welded nut won't get you anywhere. Time to drill baby drill!! Ideally you would like to grind (or mill if you could) the top of the fracture off flat - at least in the center where you will be starting the drill. Then get yourself a #3 machinists center drill/countersink - cost you about $5 - and use it to put in a pilot hole in the center That will help prevent your twist drill bit from wandering. You don't need to drill a full depth countersink - a slight flare is enough - but get as close to center as possible. Once you have the pilot hole in drill out it in a couple steps until you get close to the threads in the block. From there pick the remnants out. Good luck!!

TOH

PS&gt; If you have ANY doubts about your abilty to do it without screwing up teh block take it to a machine shop. They charge less toremove broken bolts than they do to repair the damage from a botched attempt at removing one.

WHUT HE SAID,,, center it (the most important step) and use sharp bits...
BTW I do not price these jobs I tell'em it can go real good are real fudgen bad,,, normally it goes real fudgen bad when they fudge with it before they haul it to me... A man that knows what he is doing can have it ready for service in 20 min. are about,,, I would not hesitate to drill baby drill...

 

[wes(MI)]

Do what John said, but drill a decent hole first. As the heat from welding the nut on gets hotter, things must expand. This also helps to reduce pressure on the threads.

 

[ZANE]

You have got a lot of good ideas here. I have done the welding a washer or nut to the top of the broken stud and had some luck but never tried the cold water treatment??? Sounds good though. Shock the metal????? I like the idea of melting wax into the threads too but have never tried it???

When I worked at the Anniston Army depot on Army tank turrets there were about 100 1/4" bolts that held the ring for the top machine gun onto the turret. They were into cast steel and lots of them broke off when being removed because of corrosion etc. We had a couple of welders in the shop and their days were filled with getting those broken 1/4" bolts out of those holes. I never saw one have to be drilled out. The welder would take a steel welding rod abdout 1/16" diameter and a brazing torch and just begin to weld a button globb on top of the broken bolt. Sparks would be flying and looked just like he was burning things up. When he got the blobb big enough to grab with a set of small vice grip pliers the other man would clamp on the pliers to the red hot blobb and simply unscrew the bolt. Never saw them fail!!!!! I've done it and it worked for me too.

Zane

 

[Anonymous-0]

"dem old guys had all kinds of tricks. Sorta like stretching springs with washers. After hooked-up.....remove washers.

John,PA

 

[showcrop]

I have had good luck with first a pilot hole as others have said, then choose an EXTRACTOR, note I did not say EZ Out, that is just under the diam. of the broken bolt, Then select the LEFT HANDED drill bit of proper size for hole. After drilling the hole with the left handed bit, it will turn right out with the extractor. This has worked well in some very rusty situations. Another method that usually comes up in response to this question is to heat the broken bolt up red hot with your O/A then just blow it out.

 

[NY 986]

Drilling has always worked for me. I am surprised that welding is so effective as some state because the duration time of applying the weld is too short to build sufficient heat anytime I have done it. Also, I have had the newly welded nut/ washer twist readily off. After you have applied the weld the material is too hard to drill. Also, my experience from working at a farm supply store has told me most of these guys do not have a welder or access to a welder. They can usually come up with a Burns-a-matic but usually the heat is insufficient.