New Fuel

[GlenIdaho]

I believe I have read something about this on this forum before, but I thought I'd post it anyway.

I ordered some parts from external_link today and the fellow asked if I had heard about the problems people were having with the new gas mixture. He went on to explain that due to the change in the fuel he was seeing and increase in orders for new heads. The reason being that the new fuels were causing increased engine heat and heads and manifolds were cracking. He had a recommendation for Lucas fuel treatment.

So, for all you in the know, what have you heard? Is this something we need to be concerned about since it appears the older engines were affect the most? Thanks!

 

[MarkB_MI]

That sounds like a very lame pitch to sell a high-priced fuel treatment. I don't know what tractor model you have, but pretty much all of them have low compression engines that are tolerant of the fuel you feed them.

I would be interested to hear his theory on why the "new" fuel is so bad and exactly how Lucas Snake Oil is supposed to help.

 

[old]

Sounds like a snake oil sales man to me. One of those guys that sell thing just because he can if your dumb enough to bite

 

[chrisinso.ky]

i just orded parts from external_link earlier in the week and the fellow never said a word to me about it. as far as the fuel i traveled through northern il. some time ago , stopped got a full tank of gas/ w ethenol, and i did notice the truck run quite bit hotter but never over heated

 

[john in la]

I would really need to know what he means by "New Gas" to comment but I will try.

The RVP "Reid vapor pressure" of gas changes from winter gas to summer gas in some areas. This is mostly urban areas that meet population quotes. Most country areas sell winter gas all year long.
This has been going on for years and should have no effect on your old tractor motor.

Ethanol has been pushed lately because of the high price of oil so I got to assume this is his new gas.

Ethanol can be bad for older motors because it is so dry and eats or really the term would be does not lubricate parts as well. Old brittle rubber parts are most at risk. Ethanol also has a much higher octane level. While I have forgotten the correct octane it is about 110.
In my area we can not get 85 octane gas so when we mix 90% 87 gas and 10% ethanol we get mid-grade gas of 89 octane. This is sold in the regular pump and mid-grade pump.

Now while I do not know how northern areas blend it; I do know they have E85.
Ethanol is also a very good carrier of water. If not properly done it can displace large quantities of water and it will not separate no matter how long you let it sit.

So if I have to guess I would assume he may be talking about problems from using E85 in these old tractors. Ethanol does burn hotter than gas made from oil; most of these old engines need that extra lube provided by gas. Combine all of the above and I can see where some may have problems. A good gas additive that adds some lube to the gas may help but it surely no cure.

 

[Dave in MS]

The rubber gasket in my 640's gas cap fell apart after my filling station started selling the ethanol blend, and I have to add ATF to the gas to keep the valves from sticking.

 

[GlenIdaho]

Hi John;

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate your knowledge. I took the fellow to mean reformulated gas. As you know gas companies periodically reformulate their product to meet EPA standards. The problem was more associated with older engines which used a longer stroke.
Sorry I can't offer more of the explanation.

I did some research as to the question and could find no information other than the additional heat you spoke of. I also found no mention of the reformulated gas causing cracked heads or manifolds. I did run across an article regarding tuning an engine to run more efficiently on reformulated gas which also eluded to some additional heat caused by poor engine performance.

I'm tempted to call the fellow back to get some additional information. Thanks again for your reply and continued contribution to this forum.

 

[GlenIdaho]

Hi John;

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate your knowledge. I took the fellow to mean reformulated gas. As you know gas companies periodically reformulate their product to meet EPA standards. The problem was more associated with older engines which used a longer stroke.
Sorry I can't offer more of the explanation.

I did some research as to the question and could find no information other than the additional heat you spoke of. I also found no mention of the reformulated gas causing cracked heads or manifolds. I did run across an article regarding tuning an engine to run more efficiently on reformulated gas which also eluded to some additional heat caused by poor engine performance.

I'm tempted to call the fellow back to get some additional information. Thanks again for your reply and continued contribution to this forum.

 

[john in la]

We do not have reformulated gas in my area so I know very little about it.

I do know some areas were trying to make reformulated gas by adding ethanol to it because it contains the oxygen needed. The problem was ethanol raises the RVP of gas so they were having problems meeting the summer high limit of 7.8 RVP.

This requires a much different blend stock (gas) or the use of MTBE for the oxygen additive.

New gas gets very complicated when you factor in emission standards that cause the use of reformulated gas and RVP standards to curve evaporation rates.

If you ask me bring back old leaded gas and be done with it. We got to die of something someday anyway.

 

[Anonymous-0]

A friend stopped in yesterday and asked if I had heard of 10% ethanol gas causing trouble in snowmobile engines.I have not but called friend who saw a bit on TV News about it. He stopped in a snowmobile shop and found they are having trouble losing rings and bearings in 2 cycle engines.There is an additive to counter the problem but the shop cant get enough of it.I think the ethanol must be interfering with the lubrication oil.Chains saws are bound to be at risk along with outboard motors.Ethanol is just begining to show up in Maine.There are some bad reports comming from NH and MA on ethanol gas.With later engines running on 50 to 1 mix it wont take much to screw things up.

 

[Dave in MS]

Stuck rings in chainsaws and leaf blowers seem to be common ailments in this area since ethanol blended gas replaced our regular grade. Owners say the engines ran fine when last used, and a week later refuse to start. Disassembly shows excessive carbon buildup and gummy deposits throughout. These problems were virtually unheard of before ethanol.

 

[Anonymous-0]

I have been all over the internet looking for answers to the problem.One fellow said this.Most 2cycle oils are synthetic.He said that these oils did not mix in 10% ethanol gas just formed blobs in the mix.Easy test you can make in a jar.May save your 2cycle engine.He said that regular oils did not form blobs but mixed into the gas.My first thought was that the Ethanol interfered with the oil in the mix resulting in no lubrication to rings and bearings.Look at ethanol gasoline problems.A search there will help.I do know that Homelite sold an oil that ruined a lot of engines over 40 years ago.