New Guy here

[Jay, Tx]

Just inherited my Dad's 8N tractor. Haven't determined year model yet, but it's a side mount dist.. It's been in use for the last several years, but smokes badly, and thus uses a lot of oil. And it's flooding fuel too, so a carb. kit will be needed as well. Otherwise it seems to be in decent operating condition. New batttery, voltage regulator, coil, points, wires, plugs last fall.

He had been planning to rebuild the engine before he fell ill (and passed on), and I was going to do it for him. But now I'm on my own in this deal without his knowledge to fall back on. Luckily he taught me a lot about general mechanics throughout my life so I feel confident this is an endeavor I can undertake without much trouble. I've done little more than operate it, and get it running so I could drive it home.

So now it's time to get the ball rolling on the rebuild as I will be needing it in a few weeks to do some mowing and dirt turning.

A few questions to start;

What manuals would be best?

I see there is a tool kit available for sleeve removal and installation...Is it necessary to spend that money, or are there other ways to accomplish this chore? Hopefully I'll only be doing this once, and would ever need the kit again, so it's hard to justify spending the money if not absolutely necessary.

How would I determine if the crank needs to be pulled and ground, vs just doing new sleeves pistons, rings, etc.? Obviously w/o pulling it anyway?

That should get me started. Though I'm sure I'll be badgering y'all with a lot of rookie questions in the months to come.

Thanks in advance for any helpful info,

Jay

 

[Pete76NY]

Jay, We have a Ford Owner's manual, Service Guide, and Parts Book for N's, as well as an I&T...all are relatively cheap and invaluable.
There are sleeve pulling tools, but they can get expensive, some guys will weld pieces to the inside top of the sleeve and use them to pull sleeves. When I did our first couple, the Case Dealer (long befor ethe merger, but he was the only one around who still worked on the old one's much) lent me the sleeve puller. I took the cam and crank out and took them to the local speed shop for inspection, and the block and head to be surfaced.
After the 1st 2 or three, i found it doesn't cost much more to just drop the whole short block at the speed shop and tell them to call me when it's all rebuilt (Ford's only here...I recently too a Super M engine and did the same thing as I was pressed for time, and THAT engine was ALOT more expensive than if I had done it myself!)
About the only special tools you will need other than the sleeve puller is those little pressed steel valve adjustment tools which are cheap and available at your CNH dealer or most aftermarket houses. Good luck and have fun!

 

[Dell (WA)]

Welcome Jay.......sorry about yer dad. I "preach" the I&T FO-4 manual. ($25, cheap) It has all the specifications and even has pictures for the reading challenged.

While there are many techniques, I recommend "plasti-gage" each bearing. That will tell you the clearance for each journal. It is plastic string that qitts squashed and the width of the squash is the clearance between journal and bearing shell. ($5, cheap) come in a papermatch folder with instructions, most engine repair shops have it for sale.

There are several ways to remove and re-install sleeves. Sleeves come in 2-types, thin (0.040) sheetmetal and thicker (0.090) and better castiron. You cannot tell from the top of the engine which you have ...but... can from the bottom of the engine. I advocate using chips of "dry-ice" (yellow pages) to shrink the sleeve for drop-in installation. Others use the whang'n'bang scheme. Sleeves need 0.001" interference fit otherwize they won't stay inplace.

Pistons come in 2-types, 4-ring to control excess oil burning and the better 3-ring type. (which are actually 5-rings) This otto gitt'cha started. .......Dell

 

[Anonymous-0]

While you have not replaced pop, you have just found the right site to get some of pop's knowledge. It is not unusual for the sparkie miester(sp.) sorry Dell to welcome you. You will find many, Hobo, Bruce, Soundguy, Sean,G.B in Mont., Dan in Co, the one of a kind Dunk and many others will give you the advice your dad had ,and make you proud of what you can do that dad didn't have time to get done. Don't rush it! Good Luck, Gary

 

[Tom N MS]

Sorry to hear about your Dad. Be sure to get the real FO-4 manual. It has 152 pages. I hear that there are condensed versions out there..

 

[NOXJohn]

Rebuilding an 8N engine is not that difficult but it does take time, may be 3-6 months or more. You do need the manuals as recommended by the other posts. If you are only going to do one and want it done correctly I suggest that you pull the engine, strip it down and take all parts, including the fly wheel to a good machine shop. Most of the time is waiting for the machine shop to clean it up, check it out and tell you what parts to order. Don't order any parts until the engine has been checked out. Machine shop charges may run $3-700 depending on what they need to do and charge. Parts can run $5-700 for engine parts. If you want to replace or repair other things like generator or radiator it will be more. You can see what parts cost by looking at "Tractor Parts" top left of this page. If this all seems to much trouble you can buy a new or rebuilt engine from vaulubuilt for less then $3K. If you decide to do it yourself there are a lot of people on this board that will help you.

 

[Hobo,NC]

Welcome Jay,,, to best best N tractor site bar none,,,check this link out for some tips

http://www.theviperr.com/hobo_dnn/Default.aspx?tabid=68

 

[TheOldHokie]

Welcome Jay,

Lots of things come to mind reading your post but the one thing that really jumped out at me was "I'll be needing it in a few weeks". If that is really the case and you have never rebuilt a motor before let me caution you that it's unlikely that job can be accomplished in "a few weeks". Even an experienced rebuilder would be hard pressed to get it done that fast if for no other reason than the turnaround time at a machine shop.

A quick R&R on the pistons and sleeves to address the smoking/oil consumption is much more feasible. If the oil consumption is the only immediate problem then I'd suggest you hold off on a complete rebuild until you have a bigger window in which to work. The sleeves and pistons can be replaced "in frame" quite quickly. Just drop the oil pan and pop the head. It's a late model side mount so I suspect it has the .090 wall sleeves.

TOH

[email protected]
[u:2a163d4a40]Windy Ridge Farm and Machine[/u:2a163d4a40]

 

[Colin King]

Jay, I'm sorry to hear about your Pa. I wish you the best as you set out to care for your father's tractor. This is a great site for both new and experienced Nthusiasts.

Colin, MN

 

[Kurt-NEPA]

Hey TOH

Did I read you right, did you say you can pull the sleeves without splitting the tractor and pulling the crank?

I have the same problem as Jay, My 1950 8N sidemount is running very well, good oil pressure, but smokes a bit. Sure would be quicker, easier and cheaper to just pull the sleeves and replace the pistons and rings.

Sorry to hyjack you thread Jay,

Kurt-NEPA

 

[Anonymous-0]

you can use std 4 ring pistons in worn sleeve.
do not use 4 rings in a good sleeve

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 10:31:29 02/11/09)
Hey TOH

Did I read you right, did you say you can pull the sleeves without splitting the tractor and pulling the crank?

I have the same problem as Jay, My 1950 8N sidemount is running very well, good oil pressure, but smokes a bit. Sure would be quicker, easier and cheaper to just pull the sleeves and replace the pistons and rings.

Sorry to hyjack you thread Jay,

Kurt-NEPA

Yep, pop the head and oil pan, unbolt rods and remove pistons out the top , pull sleeves. Assembly is the reverse ;-)

If I was doing it I'd throw a new set of rod bearings at it too. If not make sure you mark the old ones so they go back in the same spot.

TOH

 

[Kurt-NEPA]

Thanks TOH,

Sounds like a plan

Kurt-NEPA

 

[Jay, Tx]

Thanks for the advice guys.

No problem on the hijacking. It does pertain to my situation as well.

I'll be ordering that manual today.

I have rebuilt several motors before (v-8's and I-6's), some high performance, worked in a machine shop a few years doing head-work as a teenager, and currently am an all around DIY guy. I am an HVAC tech, and work on all kinds of large compressors and the like. Just completed the first phase of the frame-off on my '71 Chevy 1/2 ton last winter (took me four months total). I started with a running truck, took it to the frame, and had it driving again in four months. It still need final paint by a pro, but I even shot a "get-me-by" paint job on it in that time too. The mechanics of it do not scare me one bit. I'm sure I'll run into some new stuff dealing with this machine. But I'm not intimidated at all. Now I'm not trying to brag here. Just giving y'all some insight into my capabilities. As accomplished as I might think I am though, I also realize that everything has it's own tricks and quirks. So that's where I know and realize that it never hurts to ask when in new territory.

I looked at the parts I think I'll need. And also the funds available. What I'm running into at this point, like a lot of other people, is money. Obviously I need to get into the engine to see what I really need. But at this point it's looking like a quick R&R of the pistons and sleeves will be route I'm taking right now.

While I do want to get everything tip-top asap, it might be a situation of fixing what needs to be done now, and addressing the rest this winter. It's easy to want the complete rebuild, 12 volt conversion, electronic ignition, and all the bells and whistles. But when everything else is working now, it's hard to justify the money when there's not a lot immediately available.

And I will be needing to use the tractor this spring too. So months is not an option right now. That will have to come this winter. If I can spend enough now to get it to last the summer and minimize the risk of causing damage elsewhere, I guess that's what I'm gonna end up doing. Then this winter I will have saved enough $ up to address all of the "want to's", and the "need to's" that get overlooked right now. I know it's not ideal, but that's kinda where I'm at on this deal. Honestly, I'm pretty sure that if I just buy a whole lot of oil, and keep feeding it, it'd probably get me thru the summer as is. But I'm scared that I'd end up tearing something up and make my overall bill that much bigger, or tearing up something major, so I want to do at least a minimal amount of fixes now.

Believe me, I do not like being backed against a wall like this. But dealing with my dad, and all of the things associated with his illness and death were priority. So the tractor got put on the back burner. But with all of the other behind me that burner has moved to the front. So now I' under the gun to get this thing going dependably, if only for the summer.


Thanks again for the advice fellas. And the warm welcome to the board. I'm sure I'll be back here regularly pestering y'all for info.


Jay

 

[Hobo,NC]

(quoted from post at 16:47:04 02/11/09) Thanks for the advice guys.

No problem on the hijacking. It does pertain to my situation as well.

I'll be ordering that manual today.

I have rebuilt several motors before (v-8's and I-6's), some high performance, worked in a machine shop a few years doing head-work as a teenager, and currently am an all around DIY guy. I am an HVAC tech, and work on all kinds of large compressors and the like. Just completed the first phase of the frame-off on my '71 Chevy 1/2 ton last winter (took me four months total). I started with a running truck, took it to the frame, and had it driving again in four months. It still need final paint by a pro, but I even shot a "get-me-by" paint job on it in that time too. The mechanics of it do not scare me one bit. I'm sure I'll run into some new stuff dealing with this machine. But I'm not intimidated at all. Now I'm not trying to brag here. Just giving y'all some insight into my capabilities. As accomplished as I might think I am though, I also realize that everything has it's own tricks and quirks. So that's where I know and realize that it never hurts to ask when in new territory.

I looked at the parts I think I'll need. And also the funds available. What I'm running into at this point, like a lot of other people, is money. Obviously I need to get into the engine to see what I really need. But at this point it's looking like a quick R&R of the pistons and sleeves will be route I'm taking right now.

While I do want to get everything tip-top asap, it might be a situation of fixing what needs to be done now, and addressing the rest this winter. It's easy to want the complete rebuild, 12 volt conversion, electronic ignition, and all the bells and whistles. But when everything else is working now, it's hard to justify the money when there's not a lot immediately available.

And I will be needing to use the tractor this spring too. So months is not an option right now. That will have to come this winter. If I can spend enough now to get it to last the summer and minimize the risk of causing damage elsewhere, I guess that's what I'm gonna end up doing. Then this winter I will have saved enough $ up to address all of the "want to's", and the "need to's" that get overlooked right now. I know it's not ideal, but that's kinda where I'm at on this deal. Honestly, I'm pretty sure that if I just buy a whole lot of oil, and keep feeding it, it'd probably get me thru the summer as is. But I'm scared that I'd end up tearing something up and make my overall bill that much bigger, or tearing up something major, so I want to do at least a minimal amount of fixes now.

Believe me, I do not like being backed against a wall like this. But dealing with my dad, and all of the things associated with his illness and death were priority. So the tractor got put on the back burner. But with all of the other behind me that burner has moved to the front. So now I' under the gun to get this thing going dependably, if only for the summer.


Thanks again for the advice fellas. And the warm welcome to the board. I'm sure I'll be back here regularly pestering y'all for info.


Jay

no law says ya gotta sleeve it rite now,,, rangs and gaskets can B replaced in a day,,, later then you can go for the kill

Edit,,, but you mite b opening up a can of worms

Experience and opinions stated here are my own and may not be based on valid memory or sound judgment,,, personal responsibility on your part is required.

 

[Anonymous-0]

you may get by without even changing sleeves, i'd rather spend that money on bearings.main and rod bearings can be replaced without turning crank ,not as good of course but they can be.clean it up good around valves and check them over good while your there and it will probably last quite a while doing just lite work.just my opinion.

 

[toolpride]

I have owned my Ford 8N for the past 30 years along with many other 8N's. After rebuilding an engine, I decided to manufacture a sleeve puller specifically for the Ford 8N. I can also manufacture sleeve pullers for other tractors. I sell them on Ebay or you can buy them directly from me for $50 plus $5 shipping. Write to [email protected] for further info.