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IndianaRed

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Rmember when I made that original posting? I hope that it will never come to pass, and I don't think it will, but you never know.

Here is a posting RED1 made last night...

The carbon footprint is what we need to stay focused on here,

As the climates change so will farming..

Even if we were to cut emissions to zero, the global warming event is like a run away train, and it will take considerable time to slow or stop it...if it can be stopped at all.

All combustion action which creats CO2 needs to be curtailed.

-No high fuel useage vehicles except for the transportation and agricultural industrys. Got a pickup? Only use it to tool around town?, you don't get to keep it any longer.

-Mandatory transportation pooling

-Conservation...Conservation...Conservation

-Alternative energy sources

-Lubricants only for necessary industrys, agriculture, food and tool industry..

-Mandatory MPG vehicles...at least 50 - 70 mpg

-No nukes...in this day and age personel to manage them are not responsible enough...witness the crew asleep at the controls at our NORAD installation, media article a few weeks ago. I worked as a Boilermaker for many new nuke cites...the regulatory efforts were then and undoubtedly now...scary...one slip, just one......

-It will be a sacrifice, I can see a big population shift to the south.

NO new drilling, No new fossil fuel burning power houses, No nukes..

Be responsible...Planet Earth,, the only home we've got.
-----------------------------------------------

If we empower people that believe as this guy does, then it would be a possiblity. You see where he says "All combustion action that leads to carbon must be curtailed"? That would mean us, tractor enthusiats. No parades, no pulls. But loosing our tractors would be the least of our problems.

The nnalert party is led by people who believe as RED1 does. They are using the farce of Global Warming to bring power to themselves and to bring about changes to our American way of life that none of us want. I'm not saying that the nnalert party is right about everything, not by a long shot, but they are not pushing this type of Socialist agenda.
 
Thing that catches my eye in what he said was population shift to the south. I hope he is talking about South america. They got lots of room with the jungles gone.

The south part of the US is already full, got too many is some spots. Don't need a population shift south of the Ohio river.

Dave
 
The sad truth is that is does not make a tinkers dxmm what the US population does to conserve and lesson polution. The growth in China and India alone is going to bring everything tumbling down. These countries will not even try to conserve or lessen polution. The number of cars in China will increase 30 fold in next decade. The population in India is totally out of control. Both countries are burning fossil fuels as fast as or faster than the radical Muslem countries can produce it. Why does man think that our stay on this planet is timeless? Each specie has its time here and then goes extinct. Our time will come, and faster than you might think. No need to wring your hands and worry yourself sick over this, it will happen anyway. Even 50 or 100 miles per gallon wont change anything. Tom
 
Is it ethically wrong to want all people who think carbon dioxide is horrible pollutant, to refrain from exhaling any pollution?
 
I don't pretend to know the future. However, I did hear some interesting things in the news last week.

Both China and India are discontinuing government subsidies of gasoline. In both those countries the government has been paying to keep gas affordable for their citizens, artificially lowering the price per gallon. With the recent rise in oil/gas prices they can no longer afford to do so. I think this has already begun and is part of the reason global demand has lessened in the past few weeks and prices have fallen some.

I believe those scientists who have said we have hundreds of years supply left, and also those who say that Global Warming is a farce.

As far as how long we humans survive, I leave that up to God. I'm more concerned with how long our Democracy survives at this point.
 
I concur. More people means more brains, more scientists working on new forms of energy production.

The reward for those who come up with the next big thing will be tremendous, thus pushing more and more people/companies to find that next big thing. This is known as "free markets". Also, "Supply and Demand". Just as Henry Ford and the Wright Brothers came up with new inventions to fill a need, so too will others in the future fill the need for alternative energy solutions. Of this there is no doubt. There is no limit to man's ingenuity, unless governments restrain it. There is a reason why domacracies flurish while repressed countries do not. If there is no incentive for innovations, none will take place. This was proven in the former Soviet Union.
 
TomTex stated an interesting prediction that China may have a 30 fold increase in cars. I remember General Motors all excited about the possibilty of selling a lot of cars in Asia. At the same time their production strategy a few years ago was based on gas prices remaining then the same for many years. Somewhere did they not ask themselves where will the oil & gasoline production will come from?
 
I'll seriously consider man made global warming when they can explain why the polar caps on oher planets have shrunk and why the earth has experianced a COOLING for the last 10 years while CO2 emissions have increased.

Remember the United Nations told us in 1989 that global warming would destroy North America and Europe by the year 2000.



U.N. OFFICIAL PREDICTS DISASTER SAYS GREENHOUSE EFFECT COULD WIPE SOME NATIONS OFF MAP - entire nations could be wiped off the face of the earth by rising sea levels if global warming is not reversed by the year 2000. Coastal flooding and crop failures would create an exodus of "eco-refugees," threatening political chaos, said Brown, director of the New York office of the U.N. Environment Program. He said governments have a 10-year window of opportunity to solve the greenhouse effect - Associated Press June 30, 1989


'New York will probably be like Florida 15 years from now,' - St. Louis Post-Dispatch Sept. 17, 1989


Some predictions for the next decade (1990's) are not difficult to make... Americans may see the '80s migration to the Sun Belt reverse as a global warming trend rekindles interest in cooler climates. - Dallas Morning News December 5th 1989


"(By) 1995, the greenhouse effect would be desolating the heartlands of North America and Eurasia with horrific drought, causing crop failures and food riots... "(By 1996) The Platte River of Nebraska would be dry, while a continent-wide black blizzard of prairie topsoil will stop traffic on interstates, strip paint from houses and shut down computers... "The Mexican police will round up illegal American migrants surging into Mexico seeking work as field hands". - Michael Oppenheimer, The Environmental Defense Fund - "Dead Heat" 1990


Giant sand dunes may turn Plains to desert - Huge sand dunes extending east from Colorado's Front Range may be on the verge of breaking through the thin topsoil, transforming America's rolling High Plains into a desert, new research suggests. The giant sand dunes discovered in NASA satellite photos are expected to re- emerge over the next 20 to 50 years, depending on how fast average temperatures rise from the suspected "greenhouse effect," scientists believe. -Denver Post April 18, 1990


Chicken Little knew the sky was falling too......
 
In the great scheme of things, I believe the world is now approaching the point of being out of control. The terrorists love to hear all this stuff especially global warming because when focusing on that we lose our eye on the ball in their arena, Just wait until the big O gets in power and hooks up with the big P and this country will be lost and not reclaimable ever again. We will be sitting ducks with no military, no nukes (he says if we get rid of our as an example for the world everyone else will follow suit. ) Where has he been living? I am scared but thankfully I am near the end of my life. I worry lots about my grandchildren tho. NUff said Henry
 
Fear not Henry, I don't believe "The Big O" will be elected. The media wants you to believe he will be, by lying and distorting the polls they run. But don't forget, at this point in the 1984 election Walter Mondale was supposedly ahead by 16 points, so said the abundant media pundants and polls. Reagan won in a landslide winning every state excpet Minnesota, Mondale's home state. This is an example of how the polls were slanted left, and were wrong, just as they are now.

Just over the weekend the polls have come down to show a dead heat, which to me means McCain is way ahead. I just hope he can pull enough votes to bring a change to the congress. Without that, we'll still have difficulties.

You and your generation have seen us through very difficult times, and I believe there are still more people out here now, like you and yours, than most think there are. When we win the election in November that will be proof. Depsite all the media has done to try to help external_link win, the silent masses will prevail.
 
A good wage in China is $1.50 per hour and alot of that goes for food.Only the very wealthy in China can afford cars.
 
Based upon the number of cars (and increasing every day)in China, there must be a hell of a lot of wealthy folks in China. Rember a few years ago when the Rolling Stones held a concert in China? Thje ticket prices averged around $600.00 each and the concert was sold out within 24 hrs.
 
Every time I read a response post it makes sence to me untill I read the next one. I just don't know who to believe.
 
I will agree about the silent masses. Remember '68? Half the country consisted of the people who were openly for or against the Vietnam war. The other half of the country were the silent masses, and they surmounted in voting power in '68. Even throughout the latter half of the war, Nixon held a substantial amount of supporters, mostly from the quiet, small town folk which made up half the voting population.

And I do agree that the media is incredibly inaccurate, and I am only focusing on certain news groups (with skepticism). The media is oriented in such a way that they are practically lobbyists, supporting a more abundant cause, without regard for the country's "silent majority."

My father always said the roar of the '50s and early '60s met an end in 1964 with Vietnam. He also agreed that the country has basically been "out of whack" since then.

Now I will say one thing about the problems of today - I truly do believe that they are caused by the ever-changing attitude of the individual American; the departure from honesty, courage, and the will to keep the country alive.
 
The only carbon footprint we need to worry about is making a footprint in the rear of some of these fear mongering quacks.Unproven and junk science is all we have at the moment.Getting pretty sick of hearing about bit. The sky is NOT falling.
 
I believe TomTex below has it right- I've always marvelled at the belief that we can have unrestrained population growth (it's wrong, in the abundant viewpoint, to try to limit population growth, because procreation is our God-given "right"), and somehow the world can keep supporting everybody. Absent the largest genocide in the history of the world, we're probably already past the tipping point, and populations continue to run amuck, especially in the areas of the world where they can least afford it. India and China will more than make up for whatever efforts we can make in reducing "carbon footprint".
 
I agree with TomTex too, I think everybody has to get on the same sheet of music. China went from a lesser polluter than us, a few years ago, to a greater. And they justify it by saying the US polluted during their Industrial Revolution, so why pattern your self after a mistake. China has prospered at different times in their history, but always seem to be self destructing.


The whiners have it, like watching paint dry. WAA
 
Some of the people on this site seem like a better choice for president then the people running now.
 
Livestock regulations, dust regulations, groundworking regulations, water sediment regulations, will do us in long before the carbon regulations get to us.......

People will not vote for anti-fuel rules because that effects how they live & drive. However food comes from the grociery store so they will vote for anything that regulates agriculture out of existence in this country.....

--->Paul
 
China stop the subsidy because their people were using too much fuel. Propositionally if you have a billion people a small percentage still makes for a lot of people. The concert was probably sold to video pirates, a problem their having with the Olympics. Tough sh8t to the knock capital of the world.


The whiners have it, like watching paint dry. WAA
 
Do a search on the internet for "global cooling"

Newsweek had articles about 25 years ago telling us the sky was falling and that the earth was going to cool so much that we would all starve.

It's the same crackpots.

Whenever one of those green weinies starts in on this I ask them what cause the glacier in the Norther US to melt. There were no industries, cars, etc. back then,and the climate changed so much the glaciers melted. Plus they have found evidence that Greenland was once farmable. Go figure.


The whole global warming thing is bunk!!!!!

Gene
 
The whole "global warming" phenomenon is just a new place for the socialists and communists to hide out. As evidenced by this guy's desire to tell you what you can and cant drive and where we're supposed to get our power from. If he wants to live in the stone age so bad he should move to the jungles of Africa or the mountains of Pakistan. The problem is people actually believe that someone can predict the global temperature in 10 years who cant even tell me if its going to rain tonight accurately.
 
And no more food from mechanicized farming might return humanity to 85% working by hand on the farm, but when that was last the condition, the earth's population was much smaller. So to achieve that condition the population may have to shrink, either by starvation or by large area wars. Historically large area wars have been initiated by countries needing more land for their people and for growing food. Its been an unusually long time since the last big war looking at historical intervals.

We could get hungry and angry.

Gerald J.
 
The poster RED 1 let me know quickly that she/he is a tree hugggger. Their is your sign. I was in OR during the owl thing and on the back of huge log truck it read when you run out of TP use a spotted owl to wipe with.

Bottom line change as time changes if not step aside to miss the trampling.
 
That would be ME. The sky is falling and the world is comming to an end. SOO you wont be need ing all that money you have saved so send it to me. ;>) Just kidding!
 
Controlling CO2? Okay. You're breathing, that means you produce CO2. I'll tell you what. After you demonstrate that you've stopped your CO2 production, then you can help me with mine. Oh wait, no you can't. Because I'll still be producing CO2 when I'm spading dirt over ya.
 
Remember what trees use to make O2!

If any of the carpet cleaning fumes made it outside of my house today my grass may brown up.

Nuff said. The K 2 climbers have a real problem.
 
I find those proposals laughable and folly.

Perhaps we could start by shutting down almost all air travel. Planes are energy hogs by any standards unless you look at passenger miles per gallon. Still doubt they are anywhere near what a train is.

When will we institute some housing standards for super insulated homes? With the energy prices of today it is nearly sinful for any builder to still be using 2 X 4 exterior wall construction. In much of the country I believe R40 or R50 for sidewalls and floors and R90 for attics should be implemented.

It has been demonstrated that such insulated homes when built exceedingly tight can even do without furnaces and use only the waste heat from appliances and body heat. The builder I read of was in upstate New York where it isn't sunny and warm. He used furnace money to pay for the extra insulation.

How about turning the advertising lights in Las Vegas and New York off? Of course without the air transportation there probably wouldn't be many going to Vegas anyway.

Don't forget we will also need to curtail lawn mowing in the cities to save energy and slow emissions. Perhaps lawn fertilizer manufacturer could also cease along with the chemicals used on so many lawns.

How about putting smaller engines in most vehicles? Do people really need to get from 0-60 if 6 seconds, couldn't they get to speed just a little slower and have greater fuel savings?

Lower the speed limit and let people get up a few minutes earlier in order for them to get to their destination on time.

A lot of the energy issue boils down to creature comfort and what individuals are willing to give up, and it isn't much.

Quite frankly the US needs to get serious about energy and lead its citizens to photovoltaics, solar heating assist, solar water heating, and in more areas wind electrical generation. As it is there is little incentive to do so.

Yup, lots of nuclear plants need to be on the drawing board and eventually built as well. Perhaps a good alternative would be to give up air-conditioning.

There is a lot that could be done without going overboard.
 
Just calm down fellows, I had to check my location, thought the pol.&tractor wars was back. I think if the U.S. was turned off today the rest of the world would fill the vacum(sp). Our lifestyle is a problum everyone else wants, as for the treehuggers, heartackes are heros when the pockets are full!
 
I didn't see the postings until just now. Congratulations! You performed magnificently in the face of their non-stop left wing dogma. Reminded me of the good old days. I'm proud of you and also proud to be an EXXON stockholder of long standing. Heh, Heh, Heh. (:>))
 
There seems to be instead of two partys in our country,at least three,maybe four groups that run things from time to time.

That means that its not exactly what you think,if you just hang a word like treehugger on it.Yeah we know what that is,what it stands for,but its still manipulation.

Instead of being manipulated for,or against something,use your own brain.

Nuclear power plants?Id be good with them if they can do something to purify the waste.Good as it gets is haul it to Nevada and put it in a salt mine.I think this might be alright if there was going to be a way to get rid of it soon.

The rest is mostly stuff that comes out of college.I dont now,nor ever did understand why people who went to college can be so brainwashed,so easily.Its like a communist training camp maybe to people that wont think,or look stuff up for themselves.Its not just the treehuggers either.The alternative is just as wrong to say this stuff is not affecting the Earth.However I think pollution has improved some since I was a kid.

Everything is not an excuse to claim its a nnalert or nnalert,issue.There are things about Socialism that we are lots better for,not socialist,Socialism.This sort of thing is in the Magna Carta,the Bible,and lots of other places.Some people seem to confuse being a good social community with being a socialist.Lets just call it what it is,Communism.Everybody can figure that out,but its been around for a long time under different names.Mainly its just bullying.If rich people can bully you into giving up your rights,they can make more money when you get sick and die at a young age.It could cost a little money to feeed you when you are old and sick.

This is why every time I see one of these posts about the"better nnalert"Im not going to let you say it.Every time you let the rich control your life,you live worse.Sometimes there just is no helping it and lots of people get hurt and killed,but sometimes there is no excuse for it.

Tree huggers are no better than kool aid drinking right wingers.They are both Communists,or easily misled by the Communists,and want to tell you how to live.That most always has a bad end,in any book you read.

Theres a time to be in lock-step.You all have not seen that day yet.Some maybe did during WW2,but not for some political lie.

You will someday realize that you were lied to.That all that ever got done was to take your meager freedom away from you,by rich bullies.They laughed at you all,then made it harder on you and your kids to survive.

I just wish both sides would represent the people instead of money.The other things will get done right,and we prosper,or wrong and we perish.Yes there will be Socialism,and Communism.They just need to be controlled by the people instead of rich bullies.nnalert and nnalert,at least we have that.Every election it keeps getting corrupted to where there is no choice.Nobody should be satisfied with that.Anybody thats happy about the nnalert side of this story has a sad awakening coming.Its happened before,and if you didnt have to put the meat on the table,you dont know what Im talking about.I have not seen a nnalert President do much of anything except make our country worse,and give it all away to bullies that could care less about our country,your life,your kids lives,or anything else that pertains to the people of this country.Its paid access,and corporate friendly.Thats bad for working people,no matter what the job is,military and all.
 
Yep ,, The nnalert mobilized free trade with China and INDIA ,, Crerated a Monster that has and will wreck the AMERICAN economy ,,. NO woorry , When That happens China and INDIA WILL BE THE BENEVOLENT FOOLS WE ARE And will Rush to Americas Aid ,,. NOT!!!! If We do not keeep OUR STRENGTH THEY WILL Over-run the Whole Country And come up with another 2nd language for AMERICA !!!
 
You're living in a world I'm not familiar with. You're stuck in the past too. The nnalert party is no longer the party of the wealthy as our fathers and grandfathers thought. That is now the domain of the nnalert, with the likes of George Soros, Barbara Streisand, and the rest of the abundant elite.

Not to mention, if you really read my postings, you would see were I have said time and time again that the nnalert party is far from perfect. They just happen to be more conservative than the nnalert.

And if you've never seen a nnalert president "do much of anything", I guess you've already forgotten Ronald Reagan. Cut taxes for everyone and sprurred the greatest economic boom in our history. (Remember what it was like before he was in office, with Jimmy Carter?). He built up our national Defense and defeated the Soviet Union and won the Cold War. But you seem to think that somehow, behind the scenes, he was conspiring to steal from us all? Foolish unfounded blather. You have a chip on your shoulder because you never went to college. I agree they are too often places of socialist indoctrination, but not always. And by the way, I didn't go to college either.

I am a registared Independant, unaffilliated with either party. And I believe in conservative ideals. Small goverment with limited powers, low taxes so people can keep more of what they earn, a strong national defense, strong family and Christian values, captialism and free markets. I believe the Founders were blessed, touched, and led by God, and that our country, too, has been guided by Him, to lead the world, and to help free the opressed, which we have done time and time again, and continue to do today. I believe that without the Unted States, the world would be lost and without hope.

That's what I believe.

You can believe in whatever conspiracy theories you wish. For me, I still think that anyone in this country who has the will and determination can acheive anything. It's just to bad you don't. I hope that's not what you're teaching your children. And to be honest, I'm sick of hearing your negagtivity, as I'm sure all who read it are. Just keep it to yourself from now on.
 
Thank you sir. Wish I owned some of Exxon! It's funny how so many people don't realize that's a public company. That regular people are the owners, and benefactors of their profits.
 
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