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O/T Elevator..People kind

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Brad Buchnan

Member
I just finished a tour of a local assisted living facility (I am an Ombudsman for a similar facility) and observed this two story facility with a non-working elevator.

The senior residents are using a very steep three flight stairway to0 access the upper floor.

Does anyone know of perhaps a school or training facility which might service such an elevator as a project? There are not the funds to hire it done commercially.

This is located in upstate NY near the border.

Not very tractor related but I thought I would give it a whirl, Thanks,

Brad
 
In Texas one call to the state Nursing Home inspector. Will have it fixed very fast. I have seen homes catch hell for things like that. Down here they could be shutdown for it. Unless repairs are being done.
 
Probably a call to the U.S. Justice Dept. (Americans with Disabilities Act) would get it fixed. Personally, I'm opposed to most of the things the Federal Government has imposed in the last 78 years..........just saying.
 
For what those places charge a month an elevator repair bill should be minor.
I am not a elevator expert but when I ride in one I see the certification on the wall when the elevator was inspected and how long the inspection is good for, this is law.
Sounds like the steps would not pass for a fire escape route either.
 
R U kidding me !!!!

All is takes is one of those older folks to fall down the steps and the place is sued.
I tell you right now if my mom or dad was in a place that "didnt have the money" to get the elevator fixed and they fell down the steps......Lead would be flying.
Is there money to get the snow shoveled? Grass cut? Light bulbs changed? And no wonder nursing homes get a bad rap.
 
It sounds to me like you are trying to run a scam. You are an Ombudsman and you don't know that is a violation? How do seniors in wheelchairs or those using walkers getting around? You don't know that is a fire hazard? You don't know that is a safety hazard? Are you going to ask for donations to fix it?
 
Not a fool in the world would fix an elevator on the side. Or if you found someone who did both of you would be the fools!
WAY too many regulations on that one to tamper with an elevator!
If the home doesn't get it fixed pronto, I'm with calling the state nursing home inspectors on that one!
I bet the owner/administrators car wold be fixed if It didn't work!
 
Well it appears that I made an error in bringing this to this forum.

The home in question serves the lower income folk, laborers, service people and at least a few retired farmers.

Sorry to have disturbed anyone's important business here.

Brad
 
some folks tend to pop off ...But you need to understand the legal problems involved here . I install wheel chair lift and some vehicle mobility devices . the first time ANYTHING goes wrong ,,guess who they are going to come looking for to SUE ? You need to cover your rear on this . No matter who this is for income wise there are laws and regs in place to cover this .
 
Well what people don't seem to understand is that this device is not required for fire or other purposes. It is a convenience.

People are quick to say "shut it down" unfortunately this is where these people live. Most don't have any other option.

Thanks for your interest.

Brad
 
Brad, In this state (Washington) an elevator repairman needs to be licensed by the state, I imagine it's the same for New York. You might try contacting your state licensing agency for a list of licensed repairmen, and approaching them for a donation of their service. If it's a nonprofit place, you might find someone that way. Otherwise I'd recommend you pass the hat in your local community (churches, fraternal organizations, etc) or have a raffle to help pay the cost of the repairs. I doubt that a tech school would be able to help due to the licensing requirement.
 
To be honest, this is likely a building code violation, one that would revoke a certificate of occupancy.

I cannot say that I know what the general criteria is in NY at this time, but this kind of building equipment is required to be inspected, and certified to be safe, most likely the law to be so.

My job experience is applicable, I have constructed many high rise buildings with overhead traction type elevators, in addition to mid or low rise buildings with hydraulic elevators, in locations such as NYC, as well as at NYS correctional facilities. Every one of these installations must be installed, and serviced by qualified elevator contractors, like Otis, Schindler, etc.
There is supposed to be a current inspection card conspicuously displayed inside the car. I have witnessed many new installations of both types and have also witnessed building department inspections of new installations, fail these inspections and you will not even get a temporary certificate of occupancy, absolutely a very important building system that has to be done correctly.

I can understand your position, but you have to realize this, it is absolutely in no way shape or form a piece of equipment that can or should be serviced by someone less than qualified, off company time side job, type situation.

This is a life safety issue and regardless of funding, the building may not be in compliance with its certificate of occupancy, code, etc. likely to also be non compliant with ADA criteria, just some general thoughts. It is unacceptable practice, and who is going to provide the inspection certificate, other than a legitimate contractor, anything less is fraud, could be knowingly unsafe, putting innocent people at risk. The building owner needs to obtain funding and do it correctly or deal with the consequences. This is no place to cut corners.
 
Brad, is the building code compliant without an elevator ? You need to look into that first. If the Elevator is out of service, but the building still code compliant, adhering to what you said that the inclusion of an elevator is convenience, there has to be a separation there. Ok, so stairs are all that is required,the occupants have to deal with it. An elevator is an elevator and either it is certified to be in safe working order by qualified, or licensed professionals or it is not and should be disabled until it can be. I cannot see any middle ground there, because I do not know of any other arrangement where an elevator system does not have to adhere to specific code or annual inspection criteria in commercial or multi unit residential buildings.
 
Howdy,
My 2 cents worth won't be worth that to you, but,
after retiring I worked for a couple of local nursing homes. Even in this small town the 2 nursing homes were bought out by giant companies that cut wages and benefits for all employees except the administrator, when they had milked all the profits then they sold out to even worse tightwads who wanted more profits. Working conditions are bad but profits are up. Tell them to fix the Elevator or turn them in to the state.
Bob S.
PS, your position requires you to report this to the state
 
Thanks to those that tried to be helpful. This subject appears to be a bit complex for this forum.

I really need to go yo the shop, beat some steel or perhaps turn some wrenches.

Regards,

Brad
 
Howdy,
I'll try again, Although the rules for assisted living facilities are a little different they are still required by state and federal laws to operate by the rules. As I said before I worked in local nursing homes for 7 years and was the safety officer, 3 flights of steep stairs just won't cut it . And it was not necessary to tell people that the subject is too difficult for them to undersatand and you have to go and beat you metal.
Bob S.
 
I read your later statements. It sounds like you haven't checked into what it will cost to have it repaired properly yet.

Please contact the elevator's manufacturer and explain your situation to them. If you are a registered non-profit charity they may be able to find someone who can help you that might be able to write-off some of the cost as a charitable contribution. You can be sure the manufactuer doesn't want unlicenced people fiddling with their elevator and putting the public in danger.

If you are a non-profit charity there are still many people of means who will help you with the cost, especially if you give them some recognition for their contributions.

An assisted living home is required to be licenced and to be handicaped accesible, right? A non-working elevator sould be a code violation. You need to get someone licened to repair your elevator. It's no different than clearing icey steps and sidewalks, fixing faulty electrical wireing or fixing non-working plumbing It has to be done, you can't and shouldn't continue to put your tenants in danger. The only difference is it's not something you can do yourself.

Elevators accidents were a big problem way back in the 1800's, many people were injured and killed. It took stiff regulations and madatory inspections to make them safe, similar to the aircraft industy. Your state probably requires your elevator to be inspected periodically to keep it's certification. Fixing it yourself should invalidate that certification and result in fines. The manufacturer may not be legally able to sell repair parts to someone not licensed to make the repairs. It will cost you less to get it fixed properly and safely the first time. Nobody wants an amateur fiddling with an elevator they ride in any more than they want an ameteur fiddling with an aircraft they fly in.

If you are a for profit operation contact your management tonight yet. If nothing happens by the end of Monday report it to your state regulators. If your management is in this for a profit and are too cheap to fix an elevator in assisted living home then shame on them, they shouldn't be in business.
 
How is the building wheelchair accessible? I would think it would be a requirement to have a properly working and inspected elevator regardless of ANY other reasons. Elevator inspectors are highly trained. You should look into where they get the training and perhaps they could come up with a solution. An elevator in a seniors complex is almost as important as heat and running water.
 
Brad, no need to be getting upset with people here. It's not a complex dilemna. If it's a requirement for this building to be licensed as a seniors residence, the elevator has to be fixed and regularly inspected. End of story, no if's, amds or buts! I know a retired elevator and escalator inspector. They are exceptionally picky because people could be seriously injured or killed if there were a catastrophic failure. If you're an ombudsman, it should be your duty to look into the matter and report it to the proper authorities if the building is in violation.
 
What do you mean wrong?
Every one here has said he needs a professional elevator repair technician to fix a safety concern.
He has been advised correctly that it is not the job for an amatuer or fix it man to work on an elevator.
It has also been pointed out that if there is money for administration and if that is so there is money to make repairs to a safety issue that is most likely required by law. If there is not the home should be investigated as there are certain to be additionl issues endangering the health and well being of the residents.
It has also been pointed out that the correct avenue to a possible charitable repair lies thru copntacting the manufactuer of the elevator.
Pretty good free advise from a bunch of hick farmers I think!!!
 
If it is serving low income folk, then the home is hauling to the bank a bunch of cash from medicare and medicaid which is paid from all our taxes. We all have a stake in this.

State inspectors need to be notified so they can inspect the place. I'm sure Medicare regulations would require the elevator to work.

If that scumbag nursing home owner won't fix the elevator, then other conditions are just as horrible. Probably full of roaches and mice. Medications aren't being properly administered. They probably save on laundry by not cleaning sheets when they are soiled by those who are incontinent. They are probably understaffed and don't roll the bed ridden over like they should. Around here they will decertify homes like that from taking medicare. They they get sold to another nursing home conglomerate who makes somes changes to get it open before going back to their regular dollar saving ways.

Every so often I read in the paper about a nursing home fire somewhere. Also, in many states, you can now go online and see the state inspection reports.

I try not to knock others unless we are kidding around but I'm really disappointed in how you are dealing with this. Elevator repair is just as important as aircraft repair. You wouldn't fly on an airline that uses help from a local vo-tech to work on their planes, would you?

Problem is that these poor people at the assisted living facility probably have no other place to go so they can't complain without fear of getting kicked out. That is what an ombudsman is supposed to do on their behalf. Either do it or let someone else do it.

If that place burns down next week, all those that would burn to death because of that elevator would be on your conscience. Just the same if somebody's elderly mother fell down the stairs and broke her hip or died. You wouldn't let your mother live in those conditions, would you?

We currently have my 91 year old mother in law staying with us instead of abandoning her to a nursing home. We had her in one for a while after she fell and broke her hip and the place always had plenty of problems. Half the help is on probation or parole. Kinda tough dealing with incontinence and everybody working but I may be in that condition some day myself. I wouldn't expect my daughter to care for me so she should stick me in a home. I just hope it gives me proper care.

If you don't want to help those poor people, at least post the name and location of the place so I can. I'll report those scumbag owners. Nothing complex about this at all. Kind of a no brainer. I'll be looking forward to reading your future posts once you do the right thing here.
 
I don't know your local codes.... and I'm not 100% on our codes as they relate to that sort of thing... but I would think that an elevator would not be mandatory. In terms of escape during fire, etc.... I don't think the elevator is to be used. One doesn't want people trapped in an elevator during a fire. Power could shut down, smoke, etc. I could be wrong... but that's my reasoning.
What any care facility would be required to have is zones in the building with fire wall separation that can fully be locked down and sealed off. An evacuation from one area is done by cascading people into the next area and allowing the sprinkler system to control the fire until it can be fully suppressed.
There would also need to be an extensive plan by the home on how this is to take place... and staff available to move anyone who can't move themselves. Anyone that can walk can use the stairs... and the help will need to move anyone else. So, from that perspective I don't think the elevator is really crtical.
As far as having it repaired... I would think that would require a certified person to do the work. Mabey pleading poor/destitute with the manufacturer or local repair company would get a deal...
Now if the place had an inoperative sprinkler system or non working fire doors.... there would be a BIG problem.

Rod
 
Brad, I live in the town where Otis elevators were built until they moved to Mexico a few years ago. (Bloomington, IN) There are 2 of their former techs that work where I do. I can ask them about it on Monday. If you can give me any clues as to what you think the problem may be, it would be helpful. I do know that nearly all 2 story elevators are hydraulic. They put a hole in the ground similar to a well casing to hold the cylinder. They"re really pretty simple. Just a motor, pump, and solenoid operated valves with a few more safety features than a typical farm or industrial hydraulic unit. Jim.
 
In New York, the Department of Labor inspects and certifies Elevators annually. Not only will you probably have to have repaired, but you will have to have it inspected as well.
I work with the DOL on Ski Lifts, it is the same with these as it is elevators. The big difference is that ski lifts seldom (if ever) have a service contract involved for scheduled maintenance and repairs.
Most elevators are on a service contract. But it costs to have this. I believe that the person who suggested that they are in violation of the ADA act is probably correct.
There is no school for training elevator mechanics other than manufacturers or service organizations that already do this. Best bet is to ask for donations from techs, like others have suggested. I also do not believe that elevator mechanics are licensed in New York. But there are some jurisdictions that require it, Ontario is one.
 
You never use an elevator in a fire. That's why all buildings no matter how tall have to have emergency stairs. Remember how many people were lost in the stair wells in 9-11?
 
bc,have to disagree just on the medicare, medicaid part ,at least in the buffalo new york area. homes are closing left and right for lack of operating funds.Bill M.
 
Bill, I was just talking generalities. Most of the medical businesses are usually doctor owned is the sad part. They know the medicare business very well which is why the take it. They just try to control the costs by not fixing things.

And Buffalo is like every where else. Medicare/caid has cut back on payments and making payments late because of the economy. Lots of homes are being squeezed right now and the only ones who suffer are the residents and their families. The homes who don't have enough full paying residents end up being shut down. Unfortunately those ones are also at the bottom of the list that a paying resident will pick. Seems like only one in four homes have a good reputation.
 
Howdy,
I see that some people get it and others don't. I checked with 2 assisted living places, one charges $2000.00 a month the other $3800.00 a month. This is for room and board all other services are extra charge, this includes charges for showers, passing meds, assistance with getting in or out of bed, toileting, etc, etc .
Now how do people that can't do these simple things get up and down the stairs when the elevator don't work.
I don't understand !!!
Bob S.
 
They don't.... and the building managers need to plan accordingly. Do you seriously think they could fully evacuate a nursing home or hospital quickly in the event of fire?
The right answer... not even mabey. Building is coded and built so that it's not necessary, or it will at least buy sufficient time to do so.

Rod
 
Howdy Rod,
I've been through about 50 fire drills in nursing home/assisted living facilities. Evacuation was never an option. Assist residents to their rooms, put wet blankets at bottom of closed door. Law requires that employees stay with residents untill fire dept arrives then follow instructions of firemen. Even with a one floor facility there is no way to evacuate people when staff may be 1 CNA to 16 residents. Fire drills were required every month.
Bob S.

PS---I'm glad I no longer work in a nursing home, love the old folks----hate the money grabbing owners
 
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