OK Ford 2N starting issues....

[NowinWestTN]

I have a Ford 2N that I had for my TN property before we built down here 5 years ago.
The tractor has sat for those 5 years not being started or used. Now that I am retired I decided time to get it in the shop, clean it up, paint it some and get it running.
Some history:
The ignition has been converted to a 12V electronic ignition, so points replaced with electronic module, 12v coil with internal resistance, old resistor bypassed.

So here is what I have done
1. New tank - old one was rusty
2. New Fuel sediment bowl assembly
3. New Carb
4. New plug wires
5. New Plugs
6.. All wiring was removed and inspected/replaced with new connectors on all wiring. All the ground connections wire brushed and cleaned up.

Here is where I am at:
When I go to start it, the tractor fires but stalls right away most of the time. A few times it ran but sputtering for 10 seconds or so at a low speed even though throttle was at 3/4.
The starter also disengages as soon as the tractor fires, I can hear the bendix spinning.
After trying to start several times I am getting fuel out of the air intake on carb ( I do not have the AC and tube mounted yet), so it is flooding out.

Here is what I have checked so far:
1. Fuel flow - 1 pint in about 2 mins from the bottom of carb
2. New carb set to 1 1/2 turns on the idle and high speed needles
3. Brand new battery fully charged
4. 12 volts to coil
5. Measured coil primary at 2.7 ohms, secondary at 5.1K ohms
6. Dist cap and rotor look good, no pitting.
7. I don't have a 1/4' gap tester so I did take an old plug and bend the tip so it would have to spark to side of plug, and i got spark

I am at a point I think I am not getting enough spark but really want to hear what people think the next direction is on getting this running.

Thanks!!

 

[HCooke]

Why did you replace the carb? New carbs bought on Amazon do not have a good reputation. Your description sounds like the old carb is flooding. Take it apart and check the float level. Check to make sure float is not binding. Check to make sure needle valve is functioning properly and that the needle seat is fully seated and that the gasket is in place. If it were me, I would put a rebuild kit in the old MS carb.

 

[NowinWestTN]

Why did you replace the carb? New carbs bought on Amazon do not have a good reputation. Your description sounds like the old carb is flooding. Take it apart and check the float level. Check to make sure float is not binding. Check to make sure needle valve is functioning properly and that the needle seat is fully seated and that the gasket is in place. If it were me, I would put a rebuild kit in the old MS carb.

I replaced the old carb because I couldn't get it cleaned out well enough from sitting with old fuel for 5 years. Completely crusted up and plugged.

As far as the flooding, it only happens after several attempts at starting, if left sitting the fuel does not continue to come out of the air intake on carb, so I assumed the float was at the right level and seating the needle correctly to shut off the flow. Maybe this is a bad assumption, but when turning on the fuel at the sediment bowl, I can let it sit for an hour or even overnight without any fuel coming out of the carb.

 

[HCooke]

I replaced the old carb because I couldn't get it cleaned out well enough from sitting with old fuel for 5 years. Completely crusted up and plugged.

As far as the flooding, it only happens after several attempts at starting, if left sitting the fuel does not continue to come out of the air intake on carb, so I assumed the float was at the right level and seating the needle correctly to shut off the flow. Maybe this is a bad assumption, but when turning on the fuel at the sediment bowl, I can let it sit for an hour or even overnight without any fuel coming out of the carb.

Timing order is correct? 1, 2, 4, 3. Points set to .015?

 

[NowinWestTN]

Why did you replace the carb? New carbs bought on Amazon do not have a good reputation. Your description sounds like the old carb is flooding. Take it apart and check the float level. Check to make sure float is not binding. Check to make sure needle valve is functioning properly and that the needle seat is fully seated and that the gasket is in place. If it were me, I would put a rebuild kit in the old MS carb.

OK, this is the route I am taking now. I just pulled the needle seat and had to get the idle screw needle unstuck, pulled everything else off the top and bottom half and put them in the parts cleaner.
Looks like all the passages are clear after spraying with parts cleaner several times.
Going to order a full rebuild kit.

Thanks

 

[NowinWestTN]

Timing order is correct? 1, 2, 4, 3. Points set to .015?

Yea double checked the timing order. No Points, electronic ignition conversion.

 

[Eman85]

Spark testers are cheap. Has the tractor run well after the electronic conversion?

 

[Jim L WA]

Have you or can you do a compression test? It could be stuck valves from sitting for so long. Do you have someone that could help try a pull start?

 

[soaked]

I have a Ford 2N that I had for my TN property before we built down here 5 years ago.
The tractor has sat for those 5 years not being started or used. Now that I am retired I decided time to get it in the shop, clean it up, paint it some and get it running.
Some history:
The ignition has been converted to a 12V electronic ignition, so points replaced with electronic module, 12v coil with internal resistance, old resistor bypassed.

So here is what I have done
1. New tank - old one was rusty
2. New Fuel sediment bowl assembly
3. New Carb
4. New plug wires
5. New Plugs
6.. All wiring was removed and inspected/replaced with new connectors on all wiring. All the ground connections wire brushed and cleaned up.

Here is where I am at:
When I go to start it, the tractor fires but stalls right away most of the time. A few times it ran but sputtering for 10 seconds or so at a low speed even though throttle was at 3/4.
The starter also disengages as soon as the tractor fires, I can hear the bendix spinning.
After trying to start several times I am getting fuel out of the air intake on carb ( I do not have the AC and tube mounted yet), so it is flooding out.

Here is what I have checked so far:
1. Fuel flow - 1 pint in about 2 mins from the bottom of carb
2. New carb set to 1 1/2 turns on the idle and high speed needles
3. Brand new battery fully charged
4. 12 volts to coil
5. Measured coil primary at 2.7 ohms, secondary at 5.1K ohms
6. Dist cap and rotor look good, no pitting.
7. I don't have a 1/4' gap tester so I did take an old plug and bend the tip so it would have to spark to side of plug, and i got spark

I am at a point I think I am not getting enough spark but really want to hear what people think the next direction is on getting this running.

Thanks!!

Hi NowinWestTN,
Im wondering which ignition kit you have? If pertronix 1247, or 1247xt, they require 3.0 ohms minumum primary resistance, and you've got 2.7 ohms?
If so, can the ignitor overheat, and fry, before the coil windings heat up to the 3.0 minumum?

Could also have a 91247 Ignitor ll. They have a minimum way down at .45 ohms, and pair with Ignitor ll coils with .6 ohms. Not sure if (2.7-.6=) 2.1 ohms is too much when turning on the starter, causing a low voltage issue...

Also, spark plug wires must be RFI suppression style. Copper core plug wires will ruin the Ignitor over time.

Also,1.5 turns on the carb idle mix may be too lean, suggest try half a turn from lightly seated

 

[NowinWestTN]

Spark testers are cheap. Has the tractor run well after the electronic conversion?

Yes, the tractor was running well with the Electronic ignition before it was let sitting for the 5 years

 

[NowinWestTN]

Hi NowinWestTN,
Im wondering which ignition kit you have? If pertronix 1247, or 1247xt, they require 3.0 ohms minumum primary resistance, and you've got 2.7 ohms?
If so, can the ignitor overheat, and fry, before the coil windings heat up to the 3.0 minumum?

Could also have a 91247 Ignitor ll. They have a minimum way down at .45 ohms, and pair with Ignitor ll coils with .6 ohms. Not sure if (2.7-.6=) 2.1 ohms is too much when turning on the starter, causing a low voltage issue...

Also, spark plug wires must be RFI suppression style. Copper core plug wires will ruin the Ignitor over time.

Also,1.5 turns on the carb idle mix may be too lean, suggest try half a turn from lightly seated

I want to say the Pertronix 1247 is the one I put on it but it was like 18 years ago. The tractor did run good with it installed for 10 years before I let it sit for the 5 years. The coil came with the conversion kit.

Thanks for the info on the plug wires, I will have to check on those.

 

[NowinWestTN]

Have you or can you do a compression test? It could be stuck valves from sitting for so long. Do you have someone that could help try a pull start?

I do have compression tester. I actually got it out and thought about checking this.
Think I will put that on my list

 

[soaked]

From post #1:
" A few times it ran but sputtering for 10 seconds or so at a low speed even though throttle was at 3/4."
Agree, Agree, test if spark jumps 1/4" gap, and compression, hoping for above 90psi...

 

[Non-farmer]

Fuel coming out of the carb throat is almost certainly the result of over-choking, which is VERY easy to do on these. Don't pull the choke knob out for more than a second or two at a time, and don't keep doing it over and over. Using the choke successfully on an N requires a dainty touch, not a heavy hand.

As mentioned, an adjustable open gap spark tester is cheap, and also worth repeating, plug wires with metal cores are often harmful to Pertronix EI modules. Confirm spark quality and check compression. With what you've stated, fuel/carb definitely doesn't sound like your problem.

Pertronix provides very good support, but undoubtedly will want to know your model number.

 

[NowinWestTN]

plug wires with metal cores are often harmful to Pertronix EI modules

So when you say metal you are referring to copper core?

 

[Non-farmer]

So when you say metal you are referring to copper core?

Copper or steel.

Pertronix Ignitor 1247 page. Have a look at the installation instructions.

WARNING: DO NOT USE WITH COPPER/STEEL CORE SPARK
PLUG WIRES. MUST BE USED WITH SUPPRESSION CORE SPARK
PLUG WIRES

 

[NowinWestTN]

From post #1:
" A few times it ran but sputtering for 10 seconds or so at a low speed even though throttle was at 3/4."
Agree, Agree, test if spark jumps 1/4" gap, and compression, hoping for above 90psi...

Just checked the compression, 135 on all cylinders
This seems high from what I have read. Engine was rebuilt not to long ago hour wise

 

[soaked]

Yes, if stock pistons, on 2n,,,, new is around 120 psi. If all Carbonded up, psi climbs.
Aftermarket pistons like this can be 130-140 psi, with clean, no carbon.

 

[NowinWestTN]

Copper or steel.

Pertronix Ignitor 1247 page. Have a look at the installation instructions.

OK so I'll get a new set of plug wires and then do a spark gap check and make sure I have spark at 1/4"

 

[NowinWestTN]

UPDATE:
Rebuilt the original carb and did a spark test on the coil and all cylinder wires. Spark was great at 1/4"
First time putting on rebuilt carb, no gas. Wouldn't fire.
Took carb apart and blew out all the passages and put it back together.
Now it starts!!
Now I have an idle problem. Can start the tractor at half throttle and it runs fine, can go full throttle and runs pretty good.
Anything less than half throttle and it dies.
After playing around with the adjustments, I stopped put some tools away and when I came back noticed gas coming out of the carb at the air intake, like it was flooding (needle not completely shutting off gas).
OK so now what, pull the carb and take it apart again? Anything specific I should be looking at?

This carb sat for at least 5 years so it was pretty gummed up.