Old barn...(kinda long)

[dab]

I have a little bit of a problem and am looking for a little help. I currently rent a place of about 2 acres close to my folks. They are getting up there in age so it is nice to be by them for the grandchildren. The place has a trailer on it that is pretty good shape and an old barn. The barn is the old “Amish” type that is very structurally good. It could use a new floor but years ago the previous owners sided it very nicely with steel. The barn does not leak and in my opinion looks good. What my problem is I now have an opportunity to buy the place for what I feel is quite a fair price. In fact I will be able to buy the place and be able to put some money back into it to modernize the exterior of the house and do a couple things to the barn right off the bat. But what my problem is that the property has within the last few years had a small subdivision put around it. In the P.U.D. for the sub division there is a provision that the barn and house need to come down. Originally the barn needed to come down because it was to close to the sub-div road but they have since relocated the road. There was a meeting at the local town hall last night to allow the barn to stay so I went with some neighbors hoping for the best. I had one neighbor in particular who is a contractor who for the last 8 to 10 months has been sick about the fact that the barn had to come down. A part of American heritage; structurally sound; are among some of the words that he has used over the months. Then we get at the meeting and a whole different story comes out. Decrepit old barn; and safety hazard are the types of words now. I know this is getting long and I have lots more to say but my main thing I need now is help. Does anyone have a direction I can go now to save this old barn? Oh yea after the meeting he came up to me and apologized and said it was nothing personal, he was just looking out for his investment. I told him I understood where he was coming from. I also told him that I would have felt no different about him if he would have been telling me he felt this way from the beginning. But I also told him that I come from generations of say what you mean and mean what you say so if you are going to double talk then go home and do it with you wife.

 

[Fawteen]

"Them with the gold makes the rules".

Unless you're willing and able to spend more time and money on lawyers than they are, you WILL lose.

Run. Now. Run far.

Buying a place surrounded by yuppies with deep pockets and pet lawyers is just asking for heartache. No way they're ever going to let you "farm" there.

 

[TnT]

You could dismantle the barn and sell it back to the yuppies at about $100.00 a board foot as "distressed Americana". What irony!

 

[IaGary]

Don"t know what state you are in but here in Iowa there is a group know as the Ia Barn Hertitage Foundation or something like that.

They help save barns to preserve our history.

Maybe there is one in your state and they may go to bat for you.

Gary

 

[Bill(Wis)]

There are builders who specialize in revitalizing old barns. "Bender Builders" of southern Wis comes to mind as an example. A search might turn up something/somebody.

 

[Larry in Mo]

You might try this; buy the place as cheap as you can, let your plans be known, and see how much they'd spend to buy you out. Maybe move in some old junk of some kind might help. LE

 

[Anonymous-0]

WE had a piece of property in N.Y. they put in a condo development, we had a small 9 unit motel, best shape of any of the buildings on the property, permit called for it to be razed, but we could apply for new permit and build a new one?. permits, regulations , and lawyers in the APA are just plain senseless .

 

[Anonymous-0]

What happened at the meeting, was there a vote or decision made by a board ? Was it just a public hearing prior to a vote. What is the definition of "P.U.D." planned use district ? Here they use P.D.D. planned development district in comparison.

I interpret that the barn removal was contingent upon P.U.D. approval with the local municipality, did not work with the road for the new development being the reason, maybe a sightline/safety issue at the intersection, but the road has now been moved, meaning that problem was mitigated by moving the road ?

What is the current zoning of the property you rent right now ? I would assume it to not have changed, especially if the owner of the new development and the owner of the rental property are not the same, does the developer own that 2 acre parcel ?

Was there any official legal action condemning the barn due to the approval of the new development ?

If the property is not owned by the developer, and the zoning has not been changed for it, is it still an agricultural zone, or residential zone, or a zone that allows this kind of building, a barn in this case.

Something seems odd, they moved the road, and that was the initial reason for the barn to be removed, I'd quickly do as much research as possible, starting with the current owners files/records, county records deeds maps etc., zoning/planning board hearings, meeting minutes, local building code, and what it says for the current zoning of the parcel.

You can do a lot on your own to determine what you are up against, and a long drawn out scenario requiring an attorney may not be the best way to spend your money, you may find something that could be in your favor, you never know until you turn over all the information related to the situation.

Aesthetically speaking, does the barn stand out and not blend with the existing and or new development ? If so, those new residents will be your enemy, event though the place was there long before them. This is where things are backward, new residents become activists.

You really need to put all the facts on the table and make an assessment of where the issue stands in legal terms, and by all means do so before entering an agreement to purchase the land.


What you describe is exactly like a place I know of, where a subdivision was built behind an old barn, also next to a historic stone house from way back, both in decent condition, right on the road, would be a real shame to have them torn down because of new homes, they are adjacent to the road like msot places were back in the day.

 

[John (MO)]

You just got to love it when people can tell you what to do with your property. Thank god we don't have any zoning here!

 

[johnand cindy]

dab, I agree with IaGary, in Maryland theres the Md. Historical Society they have a very strong voice in govt. if you have an org. like that in your area it could be helpful.If you like living there buy the place barn or no barn. Wish you the best,and please keep us posted. Regards, John

 

[Pete in MD]

dab,

IF you want to live there surrounded by yuppies and,

IF a final decision about the barn has not been reached,

I suggest you hire a qualified engineering outfit to inspect the barn and give you a written report on its condition and fitness for continued use. With a good report you can fight the powers to be.

Get in contact with your Soil Conservation District office. If there are any state or local programs about preserving historic barns, they would know about them.

With the yuppies it might really be the trailer they don't like.

 

[dab]

First and foremost that all of you for your responses. I will try and answer some of the questions now. As far as a decision, No they are going to table it till the next meeting. As far as Zoning, I would assume that it is still Zoned Ag but am not sure about that. At least 15 square miles around it is Zoned Ag/residential so I would assume this is too but will look into that. P.U.D. is short for property under development. As far as eye sore. No not at all, but they also have guidelines in the P.U.D. for new development. The reason the road was moved is because a water shed that was put in didn’t need to be as big as originally planned so there fore the road moved about 25 feet father away from the barn which now leaves more then enough “road room”. Barn is not at an “intersection” It sets at leave 100 feet off of the main road and now about 50 to 70 feet off of the sub-div road. This is also going to be a sub-div of only about 10 lots which three of them are owned by one individual. Which is the one giving grief. Kind of funny though that the P.U.D. allows for Horses but only 3 per property and last I counted he had over 30 Donkeys; goats; and other miscellaneous animals on. As far as state. Southwest Michigan.

 

[Dick L]

Dont you just love it when people buy a spot of land small enough that it would not make a good garden plot and want to control every one around it.

 

[Walt Davies]

Have the barn put on the national register of historic homes then they can't touch you.
Walt

 

[JSharp]

(quoted from post at 11:23:45 09/06/07) Have the barn put on the national register of historic homes then they can't touch you.
Walt

Of course then you might find you can't do what you want with the barn either since it's become "historic." The tin siding and any other changes that have been made might preclude this anyway.

I think Fawteen had it right. Run far and fast from yuppies and their lawyers...

 

[Anonymous-0]

It sounds like the influence is from the 10 acre subdivision as you said, well at least you know who is driving the opposition of the barn, you also need to collectively ascertain who else may be involved, know your enemy, but don't draw any attention to yourself in the investigative process of figuring out who is who. Next thing is to find out what the relationship is like between these people and the town officials, know the political climate there too.

If the zoning has not changed, and even if it did, does that mean that once changed, all existing buildings and their uses are now rescinded and must be demolished because someone got the zoning changed or was allowed a use variance within that zone which no longer allows such structures/uses. Of course not, what you describe is like someone applying for a use variance in reverse, eliminating a type of structure and it's use, which does not make much sense unless legal action was needed to be taken to rid a serious nuisance or due to some kind of horrific occurence like the compressed gas facility in Louisiana that blew up years ago, it was not allowed to be rebuilt, one example of that. It was done by emergency legislation I would assume, but a barn, should be grandfathered in, unless condemned for reason. All buildings have a set back from center line of road, old ones usually get grandfathered in, unless condemned by the state, eminent domain, which leads to condemnation proceedings.

It does not make any sense, a certain party or party's wants the barn gone, ok, hey I'd like to win the lottery too LOL, but on what grounds can they achieve this without legal action executed by the municipality. I am of the opinion it would have to be condemned first and appropriate legal action by the town or municipality taken, by the book, for it to happen, what else am I missing here or where am I off or plain wrong for one reason or another ? Forget about all that yuppy crap, heresay and whatever, get the facts on the table yourself, in an organized fashion, it may very well be that with your due diligence directed to the immediate attention to this matter, (read the zoning criteria, occupancy classifications and uses, the building codes, local laws, leglislation, the charter and anything that applies, state, county, local) you may uncover information supporting your cause, meaning the barn is not in violation of something that condemns it being there and it's use. I'd start immediately, and leave no stone unturned, you may be surprised at what you find out. You don't have to be an atty to do the leg work, at some point you may need to consult one, but do your homework first, sounds like it may be worth looking into, do it a.s.a.p. and be fully prepared well in advance of any future meetings,

I know you don't even own the place yet, you could still enter an agreement to purchase it, just make sure it is contingent on the barn staying and NOT being condemned or having to be removed, which would void the contract and be specified in same, similar to language used when a person enters an agreement to purchase a property or building, but is contingent upon planning and zoning approval, or the deal is off.

 

[Anonymous-0]

three questions,You said trailer and barn,then you say house(one or both),Did this tract come off of the same tract as the sub and has the same owner(if it does then you are in a loosing battle on the regs.)Most develoments that are sold with the orginal buildings as a tract are sold with the Stip.that they must be removed unless they are of stellor condition and will bring TOP dollar.Trailers and old barns are a big NO-NO.

 

[MichaelNEIowa]

Actually, it is called the Iowa Barn Foundation. I do the Web site.

http://www.iowabarnfoundation.org

 

[Anonymous-0]

We have the same problem, i keep buying lottery tickets and when i win, i am buying the whole subdivision and bulldozing it. it is very frustrating and unfortunately the farm loses. we even had a guy called the city pound and see if they would come pick up a stray cat. were 10 miles from the city.

 

[Jeff Oliver]

Lotta good info here but the main reason your looking at it is to be near your parents. If the zoning or sub rules allow for 3 horses per property then I don't see how they can make you tear a barn down. If that is an issue then where are those other folks gonna keep their horses? Maybe not in your barn but in one on their property.

Also check the laws in your area. In town at my mom's house,when we moved there in 1969 there was a barn next door and 2 acres of pasture. Another one next to it. We bought the lot and barn years ago and as long as we keep a horse or something there they can't make us tear it down or move the horses. Now if we take the animals off of it for one year thats the end of it all.

If you can prove the building is structuraly sound then that goes against what your opponent says. I'm here in Tenn. and most towns here have a grandfather type thing where if a house and barn or something is already there when subdivisions and the like come in then they can't be bothered unless the owners agree to it. Or eminent domain in which opinions don't matter (but that's another story altogether).

Check with the current owner and see if he is willing to do a contract whereas it is stated that the house and barn stay and see that if you have a grandfather clause if it passes on from one owner to another.

 

[dab]

Thanks again for even more responses. As far as the living dwelling it is a trailer that has had a room added onto it from the side with a porch. It also sits on a full basement. As far as condition, not bad. I say that only because it could use new siding and maybe a roof. It doesn’t leak but those two things would make it look just like a new one. There is no “shotty” craftsmanship hear if you get my drift. But on another note it would not fall into the criteria of a new structure. Which it isn’t. I have also let it be known that I have no problem maintaining the place as it is and putting up a house in the future that would meet there criteria if the barn can stay. But I also told them that it would be about five years before I could put a new house up. I can’t afford to buy the place, tear down a house and put up a $200,000 house at this time. If someone could tell me how to post a pic I will. Maybe I will even put one under stuck and troubles when I get home. The owner of the property lives in Chi town but it is being developed by another party. There was a stip in the P.U.D. that the barn and house had to be removed but that stip was based on the barn being to close to the original road. Zoning allows for 3 horses per lot but only if you have 3 acres or more and this is one of the two lots that is 2.25 acres.

 

[Aaron Ford]

Okay, I gotta say it...

Thank them for thier interest and let them know at the next meeting that the barn will come down. Your new commercial hog raising facilities are going to need the space. Let them know you appreciated the idea of removing the barn because it helped you realize that there was other options. Bring some paperwork showing the financial viability of hogs and ask them what they had for breakfast this morning. "Heck, y'all talked me right into it!"

Okay I am kidding, but there are much worse neighbors than an old barn. There has to be a way.

Or you could take the antagonist road and paint it pink. LOL

Hope I made ya smile,

Aaron

 

[Anonymous-0]

Like Fawteen said RUN-RUN don't walk away from this.The STIP is the owners-builders ruling,not the Zoning board or someone else,the zoning board could probley care less about the Barn Trl.removal.You don't have enough money and time to fight them in court if they do want to push this.You may not be able to buy this property without signing the stip,which means you agree to all rules.