opinions needed

[bushmaster]

hi all, most of you probably seen my post so ill make it short. looking at buying a ford 3500, it seems to be in good condition, the rear tires are pretty worn and cracked,no leaksin the hydrolics just a little seepage ,the engine has a knock so im figuring on rebuilding it ive rebuilt several gas engines but am new to diesel, the tractor is going to be 1800 dollars and im figuring 1000 dollars for rebuild between parts and if i have to have crank turned and block bored {dont think this engine has the replaceable sleeves 1966 172 cid} do you guys think this is worth getting involved in?
ford backhoe t9389 ser 753
ford loader t9423

 

[RodinNS]

Should be a 175 engine in that tractor. I think I'd figure on more like 3-4 grand for parts and machine work if it's serious and you plan on making a job of it... You find out what it costs to do the injectors and fuel pump, have the head done because it will need it.... I can't say that I've seen a Ford apart that didn't want a set of pistons either. You would also inspect the water jacket and cylinder walls very very carefully for cavitation. IF there's any evidence of that you would bore and sleeve all 3 holes to head that off.
If you hope to put less than a grand into the engine, you're probably not going to do much more than stick a set of main and rod insserts in there and a gasket set... and mabey rings. I'd tread carefully on this. Depends on what the tractor will be worth to you when all is said and done because I doubt you'll sell it for what you put into it. That's just how it is.
The way I look at it is that if the tractor is very usefull to me when it's repaired and as usefull as a new one... then I'd sooner buy an older one and go through it from back to front. I wouldn't be concerned about spending 20-30 grand to relife a scrap yard tractor IF I HAD THE NEED FOR IT. Unfortunately it'll never be worth that to anyone else... so I'd have to use it to get my money back. Depends on how you look at it in your situation as to whnat it's worth.

Rod

 

[GlenIdaho]

Rod is exactly right, it all depends on what you want it for and what you are willing to spend. As an example, I have a Ford 850 (pictured above). When I started on it the purpose was to fix the rear main seal. That led to a complete rebuild of the engine after a leak was discovered between the sleeve and block and the the sleeves, crank etc were so far out the complete rebuild was necessary. After the engine I discovered the front axle center pin was bad as well as the spindles and bushings. Replaced the clutch, throw out bearing, surfaced the fly wheel and replaced the trans output shaft seal. Went to fix a rear axle seal and discovered the previous owner(s) had run the tractor for some time with bad bearings which destroyed the axle trumpets on both sides. Their fix was a tube worth of silicone to stop it from leaking. That led to replacing some more bearings, spider gears and thrust washers. What was a simple fix became a three year restoration project. I'm now working on the loader and hope to have the tractor operational by next spring. So, as you can see it depends on what you want and how much you want or are willing to spend. If it were me, and if you are new to tractors, I would take someone with me that knows tractors and check it out thoroughly. If I had done that I wouldn't have spent the time and money I know have in my tractor. Unfortunately or fortunately, I became hooked and now enjoy working on it. Have fun!

 

[john_Bud]

I have to say that the rebuild kits for most ag engines are higher than a small block ford or chevy. If they had decent maintenance, the crank may be fine with just bearings and bushings. New rings on the old pistons (possibly knerl the thrust faces) and a 3 angle valve grind may get you back running. That would keep you under the $1000. If you have to grind the crank, redo the rods, new pistons and bore for sleeves it will be in the 2000 to 2500 range. I don't think you will be up to the 3-4k range unless you just drop off the engine and expect a shiny painted engine in return. That approach is done, but it is expensive.

One thing to think about. The 3 cyl ford diesels were rattly knocky from the get go. It may still run that way for 2-3000 more hours. If you want it, get a compression and leak down test run on each cylinder. Ask if the owner uses ether to start it. If they do - don't buy it. Ether engines are typically going to cost more to repair. (just my opinion here)


Glen, Reading your 850 story and the term "mission creep" comes to mind. And sadly, it reminds me too much of my backhoe project that quickly turned into a wallet eating monster! Hope you were able to escape the clutches of that devilish beast.

jb

 

[Anonymous-0]

Here is a note on the 3 cylinder Ford engines. I went on the Farmtrac website and they had a note about thier engines being inter changable with the 3-cylinder engines. The quote was that they may be less expensive than an overhaul. I have not priced them but maybe something to check into.

 

[GlenIdaho]

Hi John; I must confess the beast took me captive and I no longer have a wallet. My wife took it away after the first year. lol It's become a labor of love and keeps me out of trouble. I'm thinking about doing another one, but hopefully the lessons I've learned with this one will help keep the costs down.

 

[RodinNS]

Early Fords are cheap to work on. A grand will buy a top notch kit for the 172...
Of the post 65 Ford's I've seen and had apart it's an entirely different story. MOST will need pistons unless you're lucky. The pistons are either plain worn out, or broken. Seen a few with a lot of broken rings.... neglect/poor maintenance/ big blasts of ether and so on.
Piston prices are all over the map. A 4.4" N/A piston is probably in the 150/slug range. The turbo pistons are handier the 4-500 mark...
Head work gonna be a couple hundred anyway since you need new oversize valves to compensate for the guide wear? Bore work and sleeves about 100/hole? Fuel pump; 5-700? Injectors; 2-300? Crank, if needed.... mabey 500 aftermarket or a lot more for OEM.
This plus the basics of rings/bearings/gaskets etc.
That's where my numbers come from. Worst case for sure... but it' not often you get off with a best case. The easiest we ever got off was a 201 that turned her #2 main insert. I caught it, shut her down and she dropped the cap and all in the pan. That job got off for about a grand at the dealer (they did the work) basically for labor and a set of inserts and gaskets. It didn't so much as mark the crank. Very, VERY lucky... that time.

I think it depends a lot on what kind of job you want to make of it. You can patch it back together for another thousand hours or reman it for another ten thousand hours. I put hours on them so I don't want to see the inside of them again for a long long time.... I'd sooner spend it now than later.

Rod

 

[Brian in MA]

I'm with Rod on this one. Do you want this specific tractor? Are you prepared to spend more than it's worth to get exactly what you want? If yes, then go for it. Could you get what you want without engine problems for $2,800? $5,000? $12,000? Life is a gamble, and so are tractors, even new ones. Have you tried to find a 3cyl diesel runner in a junk yard with a bad SOS behind it for reasonable money? It's all about comfort level. Personally, I'd probably buy it because that's what I do and my wife can't stand it. If all esle fails, can you part it out and break even? Gut feelings are healthy things. Good luck!

 

[john_Bud]

"Worst case for sure... but it' not often you get off with a best case"


So true! I never get by with the best case either. Then again, like you, I want to KNOW it's going to run as good or better than when it was new. I do balancing to 1gram per rod/bearing/piston/rings sets. And typically do a quick port (no polish) on the heads, new guides and 3 angle grinds. Having the tools and a minimum of skills and doing all the assembly work helps keep the costs down to or below a standard rebuild. Too bad I never learned how to be a machinist, those costs are getting to be killer.


jb

 

[john_Bud]

Did a quick look
here's a place that has kits for the 175 CID 3 cyl engine for $675. Pistons, rings, bearings gaskets etc. Just the block kit, no valve stuff.

http://www.agkits.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=38

They also have rebuilt cranks for $335.

 

[bushmaster]

thanks for the replies, i let this tractor pass, it went little over 2000 on ebay,