Organic Farming

[EWS]

Does anyone know if land that had in the past been used for conventional farming (soybeans, small grain, cotton)can be certified for organic crops? My land has not been cropped other than pasture and hay for about 25 years. I could clear some forest and break virgin land but I like my old growth timber.
Thanks
Eric

 

[8N'r--WI]

Sure---dont know where you are located, but in the Midwest, you could start by going to:

www.mosesorganic.org

Tim

 

[paul]

It is typically a 3 year process to certify 'unknown' land to be organic. Doing the paperwork in a shorter time depends....

--->Paul

 

[scott#2]

Most people around here that "grow organic" and "sell organic" state that they are not "certified organic" but that their produce is "grown organically". Whenever the Feds stick their fingers into the pie, they always pull their hands out and try to catch more than their fair share of the loose change falling from the holes in the farmers pockets. The federal documentation, (required reading and compliance for certification) is no less than 554 pages in height. Doesnt really surprise me though, since WE are the ones footing the bill for that bit of useless documentation. Basically, when you get through reading it, you come away with the feeling that the Feds are trying to put the, small tract, organic farmer out of business by way of making them cough up loads of money, time and hassle for certification, disqualifing some small scale operators due to the size of their farm and last but not least, in my area, if you arent certified, no matter what size plot you plant, you dont qualify for federal assistance for drought, etc.

SNAFU, Typical, when ever a small niche comes along and someone finds a way to sell something or develops a market that provides for twice the income for their product (if that much), you better bet they'll come a knockng with their grubby hands out. Growing organic vegtables is a breeze compared to qualifing for an organic dairy operation. I am sure there are a few on this board that can attest to that.

Really now, how can anything these days be organic? Maybe before the industrial revolution.

Paul, thanks for the rudementary education on the other forum, I really appreciate it.

scott#2

 

[Tradititonal Farmer]

Any operation that sells less than $5000/year I believe doesn't have to be certified organic but
has to be able to prove it if questioned.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Random thoughts, most from reading over the years, and a little from having done some contract IT work for the largest organic distributor...

1) 3 years is the normal "transition" period. May be shorter if you can convince your certifier you've kept accurate records right along that you were following organic principles before.

2) Like one guy said, nothing is "really" organic. Stuff like pesticide drift, highly persistent pesticides (there's a organic grain grower in Washington State that I read about -- he goes beyond the national standards and tests the fields before renting them, in a valley that was never heavily industrialized agriculture. And now, some 30 years after it was banned, still finds fields with DDT residue in them -- and he won't rent those in his attempt to be more in the spirit then the regulations). Read of problems in parts of Europe were the rainfall at times has higher levels of Glyphosphate then drinking water standards.

But, you can reduce the chemical loading dramatically even if you're still being exposed to incidentals quantities in pollution.

3) The national Organic standards is an Industrial thing -- the corporations wanted it to standardize the marketing of it. Wal*Mart wouldn't want to deal with 20+ regional certifying groups with their own variations on the central themes of what was Organic, and Budweiser wouldn't have been able to lobby all 20+ groups that used to each have their own Organic standards to accept conventional hops in beer. Once those regional groups are all following the same national standard, you can lobby USDA or Congress to change the rule once. That's something industry wants very much. (Bud did back off and announce they would't use conventional hops...after they got the exemption...)

As profitable as organics can be for a farmer...the corporations are making far, far more money distributing and retailing it.

4) While "non-conventional" farming is as diverse in philosophies as Protestanism, a very large part of the "old guard" of Organics prior to the national standards going into affect have now taken up the banner "Sustainable."

The three large keys to Sustainable are:
Diverse -- farms are not mono-cropping, they're not 10,000 head organic Dairies like you find out west. They're family-sized and grow diverse crops.

Local -- they're near their primary markets. The sustainable bit here comes from reducing energy to get the goods to market. You're not selling organic lettuce form California and organic milk from Colorado in Connecticut.

Energy Efficient by design -- things like pasturing dairy cows heavily. Why green chop hay, when you can design the fields and fences so the cows go out and harvest their own forage 6+ months a year. That reduces the need for harvesting equipment, trucking, compacting silage, and running Bobcats to feed the cows.

5) Labor is always the achilles heal. Organic & Sustainable farming substitutes labor and possibly more fuel for things like pesticides, synthetic fertilizers, and GM crops. (Some hardcore won't even use Hybrids, only open pollinated plants!).

If you don't have the time (yourself or hired hands), especially on commercial scale, you'll have problems. And you usually have a much more limited set of responses to a problem once it starts getting ahead of you.

6) I garden mostly organically. This year my only deviations were "technical" -- my manure didn't compost as long as the standards call for, and I used a synthetic rotenone & pyrethrin spray from the local feed store instead of searching out an organic version.

After a lot of work to get the garden in shape in past years, now it takes little weekly work by me, and comes out well.

However, I'd still be hesitant to rely on it for needed income unless I took a lot more time per pound of food produced. I take risks by not spending as much time in the garden as I should.

 

[Greg in MN]

How much are you going to sell and to who. Certified Naturally Grown may be an alternative to going through the organic cerification process. The certification has less paper work, and it seems to fit small multi crop farmers well.


Greg

 

[Greg in MN]

How much are you going to sell and to who. Certified Naturally Grown may be an alternative to going through the organic cerification process. The certification has less paper work, and it seems to fit small multi crop farmers well.


Greg

 

[Anonymous-0]

If you have owned and managed the land for the last 3 years and can state that no conventional products (fertilizers/herbicedes/etc) have been added then most organic certifiers will say you have organic land. Same even if you didn't own it, but can get an affidavit from the people who did saying the same.