OT: $379 for installing a light fixture

[Married2Allis]

I got an estimate over the phone to replace a light fixture. Good electrical contractor, had them rewire my main panel a few years ago -- residential and commercial, been in business for years. The office girls are very polite and friendly. The light fixture is up on the ceiling of my hallway which is two stories, about 18 feet above the floor. I'm 61 and thought that's not a job for me even though I could get a ladder and have installed a few lights over the years. We bought the house new in '94 and all the wiring was good and professionally done.

The lady that took my call said sure we can do that, it's $87.50/ hour and we do charge for time from our shop to your address .. and we do have a ladder. So I said fine can you schedule it. 2 weeks later, 2 guys came out with a '16 folding ladder and put it up. The light was ready to install, it was preassembled. Not much to it. I am 38 minutes (google maps) from their shop.

Got the bill, $379. :shock:
- $34 to rent the ladder, and 30 minutes to get it !!
- Total hours = 3 hours @ $115

I called and asked them to send me a new bill, and that I would pay the hourly rate I was quoted, not paying for the ladder, and would allow about 45 minutes (more than enough time) to install fixture. And would allow total of 2 hours (includes 1 hr 15min travel time). Service manager came back with 2-1/2 hours, no ladder fee, same $115 rate.

Not going to play this game, I'm sticking to what I was quoted and a reasonable time allowed (45 minutes for 2 guys is plenty of time, come on). They can eat the extra charges.

Never got a written estimate or contract, is that part of the game?

 

[ztrmowers]

you told them to go ahead schedule, and you did not ask for bid on paper. it can work both ways.

 

[JOCCO]

Allis I am confused (dense this am I guess) Part of me feels They are a contractor and had to rent a ladder? Give me a break. that's like a mechanic with no screwdriver. The other part of me is the cost of doing business. I do hate fighting with people over price after a job.

 

[David G]

I think their settlement is fair.

 

[Married2Allis]

Yes, I cannot believe that they charged for a ladder and want to charge over an hour to do a 20 minute job. I hate to fight anyone as well. But after getting charged over $700 for reflashing my chimney (sloppy job) a few years ago I'm loaded for bear now.

 

[Goose]

Having been in, and managed, several businesses myself, I can see both sides of this.

But, if you didn't get a written quote ahead of time I think they did you a favor by adjusting the bill.

That being said, a couple of years ago I needed a cup for a lift cylinder on the loader on one of my H Farmalls. I couldn't find a source so I took it to a local hydraulic place. One of those places that has everything. Walking through the door, you go back in time 50 years.

Anyway, I already had the cylinder disassembled and cleaned up. All they had to do was find the right cup and take a few minutes to reassemble it. I got a bill for $217.

The owner and I were in high school together. He's in failing health and doesn't spend much time there, anymore. I wrote him a letter, stated the circumstances, and pointed out that I could buy a NEW cylinder from Baum Hydraulics in Omaha for $180. I got an adjusted bill for $78.

I don't know what transpired between the owner and the shop, but I'd made the mistake also of not getting a quote or estimate ahead of time.

 

[Married2Allis]

David, I thought this over a bit. I know it costs alot to run a business and keep staff. Shouldn't they have been way more careful quoting the job? The nice polite ladies that answer the phones there should be handed a list of high dollar jobs and trained to say, hey this needs a formal estimate -- rather tick off a repeat customer like me. Spent $1800 get my panel rewired several years ago. The did a good job and were professional, thats why I called them.

 

[D beatty]

A lot of places around here have a flat 1 hour rate even if the job takes only 10 minutes.

 

[4wdtom]

You said in the original post that they told you "they do have a ladder". And they are charging you for renting one and going to pick it up?

 

[Married2Allis]

Yes, I sure will insist on a written quote next time -- I was in no hurry. And I can remember the days when you weren't charged for their travel-time on the road -- times have changed. Also there is alot of contractor fraud in my area, running up customer's bill, etc.

 

[Married2Allis]

(quoted from post at 06:45:31 05/14/19) You said in the original post that they told you "they do have a ladder". And they are charging you for renting one and going to pick it up?

Yep, hard to believe a large commercial/residential outfit like that doesn't already have one. Plenty of two story ceilings in houses out there.

 

[Billy Shafer]

I have over forty years in field service. Installing generators. I have never seen any electrical company show up with a rented
ladder. I wouldn't pay for it either. They quoted you a price they should stick to it. I can understand the travel time from the shop
and back. That is normal. They should have sent you an estimate to sign. Our office always sent an estimate or we brougt one with us.
For the customer to read and sign.

 

[David G]

I am surprised by ladder rental, and time to get the, and would protest it.

 

[sotxbill]

Since your paying the """loaded""" labor rate for a fully equipped electrician and was quoted that rate.. I would tell them I will not pay for the time or rental cost for needed equipment to do this job. Especially since they said they had the ladder. If their ladder was out on another job, why should you pay? I their truck needs gas or a tuneup, why would you pay.

 

[kcm.MN]

Guess I've got a lot to learn about hiring out any sort of job these days. In my mind, if you're within a defined service area, then shouldn't be any charges for mileage or driving times. If more than X-number miles away, tack on a small fee to cover the distance. In my mind, it's just wrong to charge a customer for travel time. How do you know they didn't stop off for lunch? Get caught in a traffic jam?

Next, I also have to agree about questioning the ladder charge. A contractor with no ladder?? That's absurd! It's part of the job. If they had told me that on the phone, I'd of been calling other contractors!

Seems everywhere these days, we're getting nickled-and-dimed to death. It's ridiculous to bid a job where you can up the price in so many ways.

All that said, I also can understand that the training and experience of a professional is worth "something". But be reasonable, for crying out loud!

...Guess that's why we live where we do -- too far out to hire anything done. Either I do it or we go without. :wink:

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

They probably have a ladder, but it was out on another job if they are indeed a large, busy commercial/residential outfit.

Renting/leasing equipment is normal for contractors. If it's something they don't use every day, it costs more to own, maintain, and store, than to rent it for occasional use. There's a constant flow of contractors at the local Home Depot picking up and dropping off equipment, including ladders.

 

[Married2Allis]

Also when I first called I did not know they would need 2 guys. That 16' ladder has wide feet (it was on a hardwood floor) and the guy was pretty tall and stood a little more than half way up the ladder. Ladder seemed stable.

 

[Married2Allis]

(quoted from post at 07:18:26 05/14/19) They probably have a ladder, but it was out on another job if they are indeed a large, busy commercial/residential outfit.

Had 2-3 weeks lead time to schedule it. Lack of planning should not cost me $$.

 

[1948CaseVAI]

I paid over $150 to have a mercury vapor bulb replaced that was 16 feet in the air on the exterior shop wall. It was a commercial electrical contractor and I thought the price was about normal for my area and was glad I didn'thave to get up there myself.

 

[4wdtom]

Try sending them a check for the actual time on job and reasonable travel time at the rate they quoted. See what happens.

 

[Married2Allis]

(quoted from post at 07:26:13 05/14/19) Try sending them a check for the actual time on job and reasonable travel time at the rate they quoted. See what happens.

Exactly my plan. Maybe send it cerified mail.

 

[Married2Allis]

Yes $150 was more like what I was expecting. I think there is a tendency to soak someone once and not care if you never see them again.

 

[Married2Allis]

(quoted from post at 07:11:08 05/14/19) How do you know they didn't stop off for lunch?

 

[Traditional Farmer]

You got ripped off, any decent electrical contractor should have a variety of ladders for various jobs.That's like a mechanic having to go rent a box end wrench because all he
had were open end.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

(quoted from post at 07:21:24 05/14/19)

(quoted from post at 07:18:26 05/14/19) They probably have a ladder, but it was out on another job if they are indeed a large, busy commercial/residential outfit.

Had 2-3 weeks lead time to schedule it. Lack of planning should not cost me $$.

I never said it should. I'm just addressing the "incredulity" that a contractor would have to rent a ladder.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

(quoted from post at 08:14:14 05/14/19)That's like a mechanic having to go rent a box end wrench because all he had were open end.

This is not just "A" ladder. It's a 16', presumably STEP ladder, not something your average electrician needs every day, as most ceilings are 8-9'.

Do you use a 3" box wrench every day? Would you go buy one at $367 if you needed it for one or two times a year AT MOST, or would you rent one for $10? Has to be a box wrench. No clearance for a socket, Crescent, or pipe wrench.

 

[Bob Harvey]

Similar situation. Asked the local glass co. for a price to replace the wheels on 3 patio doors. Dealt with this outfit when I was still building hoses. Quote $275 - $300. Two guys came, one guy did almost nothing. Got the bill $495. $84 per hour each and 1 hour travel. Parts less than $75. From arrival to leaving 1hr. 10 min., travel time is 20 min. one way. There was some nasty phone calls until I got the owner (a friend) - final settlement $250. As far as I am concerned they don't exist anymore.

 

[dr sportster]

Before any job starts the customer signs a proposal. This is what prevents exactly what happened . No proposal pay up sucker.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 11:32:02 05/14/19)

(quoted from post at 08:14:14 05/14/19)That's like a mechanic having to go rent a box end wrench because all he had were open end.

This is not just "A" ladder. It's a 16', presumably STEP ladder, not something your average electrician needs every day, as most ceilings are 8-9'.

Do you use a 3" box wrench every day? Would you go buy one at $367 if you needed it for one or two times a year AT MOST, or would you rent one for $10? Has to be a box wrench. No clearance for a socket, Crescent, or pipe wrench.

F and that is a big if , they did indeed rent the ladder, it shouldn't be an item on the bill, it should be part of their cost of doing business and just a part of their rate, just like their truck, screwdriver, wire cutters, etc.

 

[Traditional Farmer]

I'd say electricians use step ladders more than regular ones doing exactly what this job is so yea I'd expect them to have one a basic tool in their business.I'm just a farmer and
have wrenches box on one end and open on the other as well as sockets that go over 3".

 

[ss55]

Maybe the boss was just too cheap to buy a 16 foot step ladder that is only needed a few times a year? We've all worked for or with people like that.

 

[730virgil]

what is up with renting a 16 foot ladder? for an electrical contractor not to have one on all of his trucks

local church that I attend has a 16 foot ladder only used few times a year

 

[timcasbolt]

(quoted from post at 14:01:38 05/14/19) I got an estimate over the phone to replace a light fixture. Good electrical contractor, had them rewire my main panel a few years ago -- residential and commercial, been in business for years. The office girls are very polite and friendly. The light fixture is up on the ceiling of my hallway which is two stories, about 18 feet above the floor. I'm 61 and thought that's not a job for me even though I could get a ladder and have installed a few lights over the years. We bought the house new in '94 and all the wiring was good and professionally done.

The lady that took my call said sure we can do that, it's $87.50/ hour and we do charge for time from our shop to your address .. and we do have a ladder. So I said fine can you schedule it. 2 weeks later, 2 guys came out with a '16 folding ladder and put it up. The light was ready to install, it was preassembled. Not much to it. I am 38 minutes (google maps) from their shop.

Got the bill, $379. :shock:
- $34 to rent the ladder, and 30 minutes to get it !!
- Total hours = 3 hours @ $115

I called and asked them to send me a new bill, and that I would pay the hourly rate I was quoted, not paying for the ladder, and would allow about 45 minutes (more than enough time) to install fixture. And would allow total of 2 hours (includes 1 hr 15min travel time). Service manager came back with 2-1/2 hours, no ladder fee, same $115 rate.

Not going to play this game, I'm sticking to what I was quoted and a reasonable time allowed (45 minutes for 2 guys is plenty of time, come on). They can eat the extra charges.

Never got a written estimate or contract, is that part of the game?

It sounds to me as though the bill should have been $87.50 times 2 1/2 hours based on your first two paragraphs. $218.75

 

[Poppa Noel]

(quoted from post at 07:33:34 05/14/19)

(quoted from post at 07:26:13 05/14/19) Try sending them a check for the actual time on job and reasonable travel time at the rate they quoted. See what happens.

Exactly my plan. Maybe send it cerified mail.

And put " paid in full " in the memo

 

[Poppa Noel]

(quoted from post at 08:32:02 05/14/19)

(quoted from post at 08:14:14 05/14/19)That's like a mechanic having to go rent a box end wrench because all he had were open end.

This is not just "A" ladder. It's a 16', presumably STEP ladder, not something your average electrician needs every day, as most ceilings are 8-9'.

Do you use a 3" box wrench every day? Would you go buy one at $367 if you needed it for one or two times a year AT MOST, or would you rent one for $10? Has to be a box wrench. No clearance for a socket, Crescent, or pipe wrench.

My step father was an electrical contractor so I can not buy that they had to rent a ladder. Any ligitamet electrical contractor is going to have an aray of ladders and most likly have 3 diffrent sizes on any one truck at any time. I cant see that it would take 2 guys to change out 1 fixture maybe an apprentice with him but not then they shouldnt billed as an electrion rate for the helper.

If I need to barrow or rent something more than once then I need to own it. If its a ladder or a box end wrench its just that simple.

 

[MarkB_MI]

Yes, they overcharged you. But for small jobs like these, it's usually better to find an independent electrician, preferably through word-of-mouth recommendations. Big outfits make their money off big jobs, and with construction hot right now they don't want to mess with 30 minute jobs.

My stepson is a licensed electrician who does these sorts of jobs almost exclusively. He does most of his work for the Indian expat community, and through word-of-mouth he has all the work he can do. He charges a lot for these jobs, and most of his work is repeat business.

 

[Stephen Newell]

If they are contractors they have their own ladders. That's crazy. Still I would have charged a half day rate for the job labor which would have been 200.00. By the time you load up tools and go to the store and pick up the light fixture and do the job you've spent have the day. A lot of times it's more work just getting there than doing the job.

 

[Hobo,NC]

I can set here and get most any car are tool delivered to my door with in a hour...

I had a electrician wire up my generator today he got the wrong breaker and need a pass thru gizmo to run the wire into my Ho-made gen cover...

I made the comment just call your supplier to bring you what you need knowing he would say no they won't but he said they would... I ask even a 16ft ladder he said even a 16ft ladder...

I am not a electrician but if I had to put a part on your tractor that was 16ft off the ground I think I would cover that before I estimated a price...

 

[huntingreen2day2]

If he is doing much electrical work he has the need for a 14 or 16 foot step ladder. I never charged for the use of my ladder. I did charge 20 dollars extra to hang a high
fixture. It is just harder to do and takes more time to get that big ladder set up.

 

[Leroy]

I understand that he already had fixture on premmisses and assembled. no need to go to a store for the fixture. So how does going to store to pick up fixture come into this?

 

[Married2Allis]

Contractor got back to me and agreed to $219. Thanks for all of the replies.

 

[Stephen Newell]

If he had the light fixture already that would certainly make a difference. I couldn't tell from the way the post was written if he had the fixture or needed a new one to replace the one on the ceiling. Anyway if you have to purchase a light fixture for a job, by the time you go out of the way to the supplier, find the fixture and stand in line at the store you can easily blow an hour to a hour and a half by the time you start moving toward the jobsite. In today's world that could easily mean 50 to 75 bucks and in some areas much more.

 

[Check Break]

(quoted from post at 08:35:35 05/17/19) Contractor got back to me and agreed to $219. Thanks for all of the replies.

That was pretty decent of him. Smart too. He won't be getting any negative reviews and he recovered labor and mobilization, as $219 is what it cost him for payroll and fuel to send his guys to your residence. Now the problem is what are you going to do the next time you need an electrician. He won't be doing any more work for you in the future.

 

[timcasbolt]

(quoted from post at 01:06:50 05/20/19)

(quoted from post at 08:35:35 05/17/19) Contractor got back to me and agreed to $219. Thanks for all of the replies.

That was pretty decent of him. Smart too. He won't be getting any negative reviews and he recovered labor and mobilization, as $219 is what it cost him for payroll and fuel to send his guys to your residence. Now the problem is what are you going to do the next time you need an electrician. He won't be doing any more work for you in the future.

The $219 covers the original quote for the work requested. Everybody should be satisfied with that arrangement.