OT Drywall question

[JOB]

There are people of all walks of life on here, are there any dry wallers?

My son just bought a house with a vaulted ceiling over the kitchen, dining and living room. The entire area is sheet rocked. Above the top plate in about the middle of the vault on both the exterior and interior walls there is a vertical crack. I was told you can fix it but it will crack again because that is where two pieces of sheet rock meet. On both cracks there is a door way corner at the edge of the crack.

Was I told BS or can you just tape it then mud it and be done. Or is there a better way?

 

[Michael Soldan]

I have seen us cut the drywall back from the crack on each side of the crack,not deep,maybe half way through the sheet,about an inch shaved out along each side of the crack line,then tape and use "Sheetrock 90",do not use the goop you buy in pails. Sheetrock 90 is a better compound and its drying time is supposed to be 90 minutes,thus the name,this works well and the only way it will crack again is if there is movement in the ceiling. I am a fan of Sheetrock 90.

 

[Billy NY]

There seems to be an underlying cause, is there settling or other related things happening ? Crack on an exterior wall that projects to the interior, is a sign of a structural problem, expansion. contraction, there is movement or something going on. You could put something across the crack and monitor. Yes, if you do not figure out what is going on, patch finish off the crack area, its very likely to come back or continue.

You would need an elastomeric material to withstand the movement, drywall, joint compound and paper tape is rigid. I kind of prefer the mesh tape its stronger or so I believe, than paper, but the joint compound may still fracture.

If this is in a place where the 2 sheets adjoin where it forms a joint pocket, where its tapered and allows for the tape, mesh tape and is filled level with compound, anyone with taping skills should be able to make the repair, but you have to figure out what caused the problem. If its at butt ends of sheets, same thing applies.

I would have to agree that those who do taping for a living and have the expertise, experience will usually make a neat and unoticeable repair. I've done a fair amount of it and I can tell you you need good lighting, and even then, you may spot things that need further work, what they do is almost artwork, thing is they do it a lot faster too, to get the same result. I think anyone can learn and do this work well, but its time consuming, then when you prime it, shine a light, you still might see areas needing more work !

You also should make sure the sheets are properly fastened, meaning none of the fasteners are set too deep, they clamp with the bugle head into the paper, if driven too far they are not holding, its very important that the fastener depth is correct, no loose sheets etc. I'm sure you'll get all kinds of comments, ideas etc. but it sounds like there is an underlying problem to start with.

 

[Tequila]

I hope I have the mental picture correct. I am guessing on the part of exterior and interior. But sheet rock cracks can be fixed. Scrape and sand the paint about 2 inches each side of the crack,(careful once down to the paper cover on the rock itself)
I would use the mesh joint tape instead of the paper. Apply the tape, and using a 4 inch tapeing knife mash in the joint compound, leveling with wall surface, let dry, (usually 24 Hr.) sand only enough to level, apply another coat of finish mud, or just thin original compound. The trick then is to match the repaired part with surrounding surface. If you don't have a framing structure problem it should hold. Possibly the screws or nails were omitted on construction. If so add more to the drywall edges prior to taping.

 

[Zachary Hoyt]

I also like the mesh tape except on inside corners where I use paper tape because it has the nice crease in the center so it can be folded neatly. If you could post a picture of the problem area that would help folks understand your specific problem more fully.
Zach

 

[paul]

The trouble is those 2 pieces of Sheetrock are moving. Might be heat/cold cycle, might be vibration from the door, might be one is screwed to a flimsy 2x4 the other to a substantial 2x12 and they just don't move at the same way.

You can patch those types of cracks until you are blue in the face. If you don't find and fix the reason it is cracking, you will never solve the problem.

Paul

 

[Brian in MO]

Is this crack on the ceiling or between the ceiling and the wall? I know we have had problems in the past because of expansion and contraction of the trusses in cold weather. The top cord of the truss is against the roof (cold) and the bottom cord is against the ceiling (warm) and with "today's" lumber not being the best stuff, the top basically shrinks a little and the bottom stays the same which will cause it to bow up. Our vaulted ceiling at church does this at the interior walls every winter since it was built in 1989, the crack is big enough to stick your fingers in. This is assuming you have trusses and not stick built (or hand framed) roof. However I suspect that a hand framed roof could also do it. One thing you can do is get in the attic and lag bolt the truss down to the wall this will help but may cause something else to move. Hope this helps, Brian

 

[don t. - 9n180179]

I use the V end of a church key.
Follow crack with the V to clean out and dig down a bit into the crack.
Fill crack with paintable caulk, smooth to both surfaces.
Let Caulk dry, then prime and paint.


HTH...don t. ....

 

[Steve@Advance]

My vaulted ceiling did the same thing. When I was up there preping to retape it, I discovered the previous dry wall installers decided a nail every 2 feet was enough, and if it missed... Just mud over it and keep going!

Some of the rock was cut short, didn't meet the joist, so no way to fasten it. I was able to double up some of the 2x6's through the attic so I could get screws in them. The rest I just had to screw it on an angle and get it as solid as I could.

So far, so good. Long story short, the problem was improper installation.

 

[Prawn Farmer]

One of the many drywall mouldings I sold for years in my lumberyards to contractors was made by Trim-Tex that was an adjustable pitch, made for vaulted/scissor truss ceilings. Silicone rubber center and gives a nice straight line at the peak. Most any independent lumberyard or drywall supplier carry the Trim-Tex line.
Trim Tex drywall mouldings

 

[Wile E]

I also had a crack that ran the whole length of a vaulted ceiling. I hired a guy to tape and remud it, cost me $ 250, 3 trips total for the guy.

I hate doing drywall, it is a trade for the young guys. Wet plaster is for the old guys. An art that is just about gone now.

Just an FYI....I have seen some bad drywall jobs in newly built homes. It makes you sick to see some of the slop jobs that builders do.

 

[Ultradog MN]

If I am following you here this is how I would do it.
Buy the Heavy GRAY mesh tape that they sell for cement board.
The lightweight white mesh tape is completely WORTHLESS for all applications and should be banned.
Put one layer centered over the crack. Then put 2 more overlapping layers as shown in the photo.
The use Durabond® setting type joint coumpound for your first two coats.
NOT EZ sand or some other type mud.
Use DURABOND® made by US Gypsum® - the folks who make Sheetrock®. It's double tough!
Because your tape is so thick - 3 layers over the crack - you will have to make a very wide patch to float it out so you don't see it. Like 24" - 36" wide. Finish with Plus 3 or some other good mud.
Use a 16" masonary trowel to float it out flat.
I do a lot of mudwork for remodeling. That is how I would fix it. Anything else will just crack again.
Folks here call me the Mudder Effer.
People who would put caulk or some other pucky in there should be shot!

 

[Sid]

May not apply but I was taught not to have any seems meet at the corner of a doorway or window.

 

[Anonymous-0]

As stated below never put a joint on a window or door edge. Paper tape is superior to the mesh type as far as I am concerned. Could be a host of different things causing it. Sometimes they will just seem to crack for no visible reason. I once drywalled the interior of a pole building that I had converted into offices for them. I flat out told them I would guarantee it to crack. That was 12 years ago, and nothing was cracked the last time I saw it. Go figure.

 

[Mike (WA)]

You guaranteed it to crack, and it hasn't. You must be careful when making guarantees. Expect a major lawsuit soon. I've called them, and we're getting our ducks in a row, even as I type. . .

 

[JOB]

I never heard of mesh until today. Did not know there were two kinds. Where do you buy the heavy grey. If I understand you, you use the durabond to apply the mesh. Then after the mesh is applied you can use good mud.

I don't suppose the grey mesh or durabond and plus three can be bought at Menards???

 

[JOB]

Thanks for the reply's guys. Lot of good suggestions here. I can go in the attic and look at the interior crack and see if there is an obvious problem. If there is, take care of it. On the exterior wall the vertical crack was about a foot or so away from the corner of a patio door. That truss and the interior wall truss should have the 3 1/2" side of the 2x4 facing the room.

I kind of like ultradog's suggestion. I was going to use mesh after it was suggested here but did not know of the grey mesh. If I can find that I will use the grey.

 

[plowman]

I just get heavy mesh fiber-tape at Lowe's. Works great for cracks. Steve

 

[Rich_WI]

If you want wide coverage like Ultradog showed, just get wider mesh. Layering mesh that is too narrow will not make it stronger, just thicker, and with drywall you kinda want to avoid the mile high pancake look. Here is some wide mesh http://www.homedepot.com/p/BOEN-6-i...glass-Mesh-Joint-Tape-FM-675-FM-675/203071694 but like mentioned, there are thinner and thicker versions of mesh and I cant vouch for the above except I know they sell it. I cut off sections of EIFS mesh when I need a special patch piece (that stuff is THICK and heavy duty but there is no sticky on it).

Get a big drywall knife. If you are comfortable with a cement finishing trowel, go for it but I do a lot better with a drywall knife (Marshaltown, 16", stainless steel short blade). I like being able to use only 2 fingers on the knife handle to make the final coat smooth and consistant. You need WET mud for final coat with a big blade, if the mud is too stiff you will have a heck of a time.

You didnt mention the finish on the wall, that makes all the difference in the world. Sand finish? Spray texture? None? You gotta match the finish and that part is harder than mudding the patch.

Dont be scared of it, there is nothing you can do to that wall that cant be fixed. You can take the mud back off when its wet or sand it off when its dry. Just attack it and check your work with good lights, keep going till it looks good.

 

[Stephen Newell]

It may be the rock was really damp when it was installed and finished. Then as it dried it shrunk and cracked. It is also possible it is the house shifting. I would just fix the crack and worry about it if it keeps comming back.

 

[JOB]

The EIFS mesh is that the same as the link you
posted? I used to have a nice Marshalltown long
arched trowel but I lost it in a fire.

I thought a couple layers of the mesh would make
the joint stronger stronger. After the mesh is on
go over it with an arched trowel. After that has
set up work off that on both sides with a longer
flat knife. I have noticed too that wet mud is
easier to work with for finish work and looks
good. I have done a little drywall work years past
but am rusty at it now. I appreciate all the ideas
I have received here.

This wall is just flat sanded smooth so it is not
real complicated.

 

[Geo-TH,In]

I'm not a pro. I would open up the crack, fill it what a water proof durabond. You mix durabond with water. I use the 90 minute stuff. The durabond is like cement, when hardened it will bond the two pieces of sheet rock. I will wet paper tape with water and use durabond as the mud. So I fill crack and tape with durabond at the same time.

The durabond in the brown bag will harden under water, so clean bucket and tools before it hardens,

The pre mixed mud in a bucket isn't as strong.

 

[Ultradog MN]

Yes you can buy all three items at Menards.
Ask for the mesh tape for cement board.
If you tell them what you want it for they'll sell you another kind that is only 1/2 as strong.
Plus 3 is another Sheet Rock/USG product. It's the kind that comes in the pail. There are other brands that are just as good but I just always buy Plus 3 as all the big box stores have it and I know Exactly how it will fill, float and skim.
Durabond comes in different setting times - 20/45/90/120 minute. Buy the Durabond 90 as it gives you adequate working time but still sets up so you can second coat in a couple of hours.
It is better to put numerous thin coats than to try to do it with just a couple.
I would likely apply 4 or even 5 coats on a job like that.
Knock the ridges and goobers off between coats with your 6" taping knife.
Plus 3 will say do not add water but you really do need to thin it down. Final coat or two I have it so wet I can barely keep it on my trowel to apply it without it running off.
If I was patching a crack like that where it was 20' long and 36" wide I would have it troweled out so smooth you can almost paint it without sanding. But 10 minutes of sanding would make it perfect.
I only sand once.
Took me a long time to learn to see and more importantly, feel the mud but now I actually enjoy jobs like that. Gratifying to walk away knowing that it's invisible...
If you are in the Twin Cities I could come over and give you a 10 cent lesson on mudding that would help you a lot.

 

[JOB]

Thanks ultradog, I will print this off so I don't forget. The house that I am helping my son do is in Eagan down 35E a ways. Thanks for the offer for the 10 cent lesson. I taped a little a long time ago in a house I built. I think I can do this job, may not be done as fast and nice as you do though. Should be able to get it acceptable. These cracks are roughly four feet verticaly so they are not too long.

 

[Rich_WI]

(quoted from post at 06:56:53 02/20/14) The EIFS mesh is that the same as the link you
posted?

No. Like I said, I cant vouch for the stuff I linked to, I just posted it so you can find and see that they make wider versions of drywall mesh. EIFS mesh is very heavy, you will need a big trowel to cover it and feather it out and you will likely need more than the traditional 3 coats, although all can be very thin. If you dont use a big trowel, it will look like you mudded a cat in the wall or tried making a speed bump for when you come home drunk on a Saturday night, sliding down the wall till you find the bathroom. Its a heavy mesh, I think its worth tracking down but not used a lot so if you need to improvise you can.

(quoted from post at 06:56:53 02/20/14)
I thought a couple layers of the mesh would make
the joint stronger stronger.

No, it cant. Overlapping to get a wider area of mesh means you are depending on the lap to provide the strength but it adds additional layers. If you are OK with the pancake look, just use the wide width mesh to begin with, then put an additional layer on top thats narrower. In the end you would have the same thickness and same width but single pieces of mesh so its stronger.

Where I think a wider mesh really shines is a place like a doorknob hole. Clean up the hole, patch it and instead of running mesh around the patch, put a solid patch over the whole thing. Then when you mud it, you are not doing a small 4 sided patch, you are covering a single larger spot on the wall. Think of covering a huge screw hole instead of a doorknob patch.

(quoted from post at 06:56:53 02/20/14) After the mesh is on
go over it with an arched trowel. After that has
set up work off that on both sides with a longer
flat knife. I have noticed too that wet mud is
easier to work with for finish work and looks
good. I have done a little drywall work years past
but am rusty at it now. I appreciate all the ideas
I have received here.

This wall is just flat sanded smooth so it is not
real complicated.

You got it. You cant hurt it, worst you can do it have to fix it. But its already broke... so you aint out anything.

 

[Ultradog MN]

Ah. Eagan. Who would have thought?
Yeah, you can do this.
But let me know if something comes up.
I'd be glad to help.

 

[JOB]

Those two vertical cracks are going to be the last of the drywall. Right now I am fixing up corner joints and holes in the walls where curtains and other things were hanging.

I will keep you in mind though. I am guessing or thinking you live on the north side of Minneapolis.

 

[JOB]

I will look for the wide mesh. I feel a couple of
layers would make a stronger joint. Thanks for your
input

 

[Ultradog MN]

Columbia Heights