OT: F150 key programming - Dealer experience.

[JML755]

Had a funny experience at a Ford dealer last week. I recently bought a '04 F150 that only came with 1 key. Bought a couple of key fobs online (for $10) and programmed them myself. No sweat. Was going to get a 2nd key cut locally but found that the online place had an integral key/fob for the truck for $20 which I ordered. Since I only had 1 key the online supplier instructions said I needed to go to a locksmith/dealer to get the 2nd one done. Called 1 locksmith, quoted $ 180. Called the nearest Ford dealer: $60. Bingo. Headed over there, no other customers in the service bay. First, they said it was not a key for an '04 as Ford only had the separate key and fob back then. Explained that this was aftermarket and guaranteed to work on the '04. They were skeptical. I told them to just cut the key and program it and I'll take the risk of $60 if it didn't work. Service guy said, let's see if I can program the FOB portion first. He went over to the truck and spent about 5 minutes screwing around with it. I walked over and he said "I can't get even get it into programming mode". I asked if he cycled the key 8 times like the manual says. He said "yup, several times". He did it again and I thought I counted 9 cycles and it didn't go into program mode. He said "see?". I said do it it again. This time, I counted every cycle explicitly. He did it 9 times. Again, he said, "see? somethings wrong with the truck". I told him he did it 9 times, not 8. He said "huh?" This time I counted out loud and he stopped when I hit "8". Lo and behold the locks cycled and it went into program mode. :roll: "Doh!"

Went back to the desk and another guy came over to look at the new key. They stacked them against each other and said "it's too long". I said that doesn't matter. The "working" portion of the key is the same. They scrunched their noses up, looked again and agreed. They then inspected it from every angle. I again told them that the new key was an exact fit for the '04 model but they remained skeptical of an aftermarket part. :shock: Kept saying "the last time we tried this, it didn't work". They said it would be at least an hour so I walked over to a shopping center to kill the time. Got a call about an hour later from the service guy: "We'll cut the key but it's got a different transmitter in it (???) and if the programming doesn't take, we'll have reset the system and your original key won't work either so we'll need to recut a third key." How much for that? I asked. "$20". :lol: I told them, go ahead, I'll take that risk.

5 minutes later, I got a call from their cashier: "Your truck is ready." I'm sure they were just protecting themselves as they regularly work with demanding surly customers, but I was very upfront with them that this was a reputable online supplier of aftermarket keys/fobs with hundreds of positive reviews and that their keys work perfectly, as advertised, or they wouldn't be in business. They seemed dumbfounded that anyone but Ford could make a "smart" key that would work in a Ford truck. In any case, the new key worked perfectly and I've ordered another as a backup (which I'll now be able to program myself, as I have 2 working keys).

 

[Bob]

How DARE you muck with the dealer's "profit center" business model?

 

[mkuhns]

Coles hardware here in PA will make smart keys from having only 1 existing key for about $20-$30. Had one made for my Dodge neon a few years ago because I only had one key. Worked fine. I'm sure there are other places that do the same. Better than having to go to the dealer.

 

[M-MAN]

Next time talk to your dealer first. If his prices are like mine he would have sold you the key and programmed it for $60. Did just that a few months ago.

 

[jimg.allentown]

There are more ways than one to make a spare key. The dealer's method is to cut the key to fit the lock, then to flash the computer and security system to recognize that key as legit. In this case, each key has a different code in it, and each one is seen by the computer as being different from each other.
Then there is the aftermarket way used by places like Wal-Mart, Home Depot, and others. They actually "clone" your existing key. Even though either key will work in your vehicle, the computer and security system will see them as the SAME key. They will both have the same coding in them.
Since the locksmith wanted so much money, it is because of the tremendous investment that he needed to make to have that capability. Flashing a computer requires a pass through adapter, a computer (usually a laptop), and the proprietary software for the vehicle that you are working on. Pass though adapters are available in the aftermarket, but are expensive and require periodic updates which are also expensive. Software is by subscription, and also gets rather expensive. I looked into this for my own use. Simply cannot justify the expense. Ford wants something like $395 for a 3 month subscription. That figures out to almost $1600 per year. Now multiply that out for the big 3 domestic makes, 15 or so Asian makes, and another handful of European makes. Now, how many keys does a locksmith have to make to cover that expense, and still make a living?

 

[4play]

Just remember you can program additional keys as long as you have 2 good unique keys, I think everyone should have at least 3 if not more keys to the vehicle. Cloned keys can not program additional keys unless you use 1 clone and another unique key.

If you are down to one key, cloning may not be the best way to get a spare but its the cheapest, it won't allow you to program another key on your own. Not all Fords use the same keys, or type of system, that goes for every other brand too.

 

[ditchwitch]

Funny how folks mock a dealership for trying to make a profit. By the way how much did you say you were asking for that bushel of corn. So in saying that is there really a difference

 

[jimg.allentown]

Making a profit is one thing. Gouging customers is quite another. One thing that bugs me is that the labor rates have risen to such insane levels. Keep in mind that while the dealership is charging you $110 per hour, the poor technician is lucky to get more than $25 per hour of that. That is where it is insane. Dealer takes the lion's share of everything and hands out crumbs to the people that keep them alive. I worked in dealerships when the technicians got paid a bit more fairly in relation to the labor rate. They have gotten completely out of hand.

 

[Dave Westlund]

Something to think about. For the people that think about high prices charged are out of hand. A person (employer) risks his own capital and invests in a business dream with hope of making a return on his investment. Theres a risk involved as many fail. If successful creates jobs in the process for people. I personally never owned a business or employed anyone with full time employment but I sure appreciated working for a company that did. If ones not happy jump ship and take the risk/reward for ourselves.

Previously I read a thread about a young mechanic with a dream. I hope his dream comes true and it will require a lot of effort on his part to make it happen.

Now I commend the original poster in this thread for being persistant.

My 2 cents here.
Dave

 

[ditchwitch]

ok lets look at it this way. Think of how many people at that dealership how ever big or small dont generate revenue.
The GM, title clerks,about all managers dont. salesmen are on draw so if they dont sell anything they still get a check. So there is alot of people there thats not generating revenue. But they still get paid every week. Then theres the electric bill, water sewer, training and you might have rent on the building. All that stuff adds up. Now if a Mechanic or technician dont want to work for $25 or #30 dollars an hour then he needs to go find something else to do for a living. We have 2 Techs here that makes over 100k a year they seem to be really happy.. Just sayin

 

[jimg.allentown]

Anybody in that business KNOWS that the REAL money in a dealership is in the SALES department. That is what pays for the fancy remodeling that seems to happen all too often. The service department has always been a "necessary evil" part of a dealership.
And, in EVERY dealership that I have been in, the high earners are also the biggest crooks. They pencil whip every repair order, oversell customers, and in general pad the bill. They get away with it because the dealer and his crew are happy just to count the money.
I am not saying that EVERY dealership is loaded with dishonest technicians, but there is a disproportionate number of them that do have dishonest people working for them.
A technician making $100k at $25 per flat rate hour is turning an average of 80 hours or more EVERY WEEK. That is an incredibly high average to keep going for a whole year - which is what it takes to turn that many hours. That means that for every hour on the floor, he is turning 2 flat rate hours. He sure isn't doing that out of the warranty book. Been there, done that. A GOOD mechanic doing a proper job and performing every operation that he is getting paid for will generally come out around even with a warranty book. Most dealerships will have a mix of warranty and cash work that is usually heavier on the warranty side.

 

[dhermesc]

I just bought a 2016 Ford F150 - it showed up with 1 key. Went to the local dealer to get a second key made - $365.

 

[David G]

Dealer charged me a couple of hundred for new key on 2016 with integral FOB.

 

[ditchwitch]

Well i can tell you dont have any dealership experience with that comment. Try the service department carries the load .Always.. Theres is really not that kind of money in new car sales.Now people think say if the car is 40k new people actually think you make 10k or 15k off that sale. Thats so far from the truth its unreal. the preowned cars is where you make the money on. But the dealership has to spend some money on those cars to get them up to the standard of that car line. Tires,brakes and rotors,services done and all service actions complete. Sure would be nice to sell a car for the money everybody thinks you make.
Now i will agree that some dealerships do as you are saying those are the ones that give the rest a bad name. That crap dont roll here. We take a car in we find out whats wrong then give the customer the option if they want it fixed or not. Mr. Customer we found whats wrong with your car and its this much to fix they have the option to fix it or not. we will not fix it till they give the ok. Our warranty is on labor and part 12 month unlimited millage. So you drive it to the moon and back with in 12 months and any work we did on the car brakes. Its fixed at no charge. Try to get that kind of warranty from shadetree joe garage..

 

[jimg.allentown]

I have over 20 years of dealership experience. I can document every day of it. Your comment about my not having experience is out of line. Credentials are available on request.

Every one I worked in told me that the service department was the necessary evil. Sales carry the load. I can name you a dozen dealer owners that told me that. Were they lying to me??

 

[Hobo,NC]

I doubt many shops are dealers use flat rate hours after it gets out of warranty. The only jobs I do at flat rate are brakes and that's because normally the hours are generous.

Any mechanic that's worth his salt could get a job with less manual labor involved and he would not have to supply any tools. The pay would be equal to what he makes are better with retirement and good insurance.

If a guy can turn 80 to 100 hr and I know a few that do he is one efficient SOB and they are. There is no doubt in my mind the shop/parts greases the wheel it keeps a dealer afloat.

 

[ditchwitch]

Ill leave it like this .No sense in anyone getting upset cause its not worth it. I hope you have a safe and Happy New Year. And your tractors always crank and run well.