OT: Union Conclusion

[RockRon]

After all the responses, I feel I owe an update. (Sorry guys, I was having a bad day and just needed to vent! Didn"t expect it to go anywhere!) Here goes: 1)I am not hostile toward unions, I just don"t believe in them. But have found most unions are hostile to criticism. That point was well proven here. 2)I believe a man makes his destiny, he shouldn"t be able to buy it with dues. 3)And finally, the outcome of the interviews...Troublemaker (who IS the union steward) was told by his union to voluntarily resign or wait for the dismissal procedures to run their course; his choice. Happy days are here again!

 

[GeneMO]

Been too busy to get on here so I am late commenting.

American unions have been a huge success for Mexican, Chinese and Pakistani workers.

Gene

 

[MarkB_MI]

So the union (or rather "association") took care of its problem internally. Sounds like they acted responsibly.

 

[Gun guru]

I dont like unions either. Just look at the UAW.

But, I will use General Motors as an example of how the door swings both ways.

The Hourly Union people wanted the money the salaried people got, or at least a portion of it. Then the salaried people wanted more money and bigger bonuses then the hourly people got, a vicious circle.
A case in point.
My sister works for GM, salaried manager. Overpaid too.
Several years ago while at my sisters house for Christmas dinner she pipes up and says: "I only got a $5,000 bonus this year" I said ummmm...GM lost money how and why did you get a bonus. Her response is as follows: "Well I work hard" I laughed and kept my yap shut.
When a company loses money, year after year and they pay out bonuses to a select few that is DEAD wrong. And of course they went bankrupt 4 years later.
The Unions protect the slackers, hard work is not rewarded and union dues are used to support the left (which I hate) And GM management is pathetic they should be put in front a of firing squad for destroying the company.

 

[RMinVa]

Don't forget what the ceo's want and get. I've never seen a union where it didn't belong. There's a reason it got there to start with. I've never worked for a company that has a union but worked at one a union tried to get in. The problem was resolved within management before the vote and it was voted down. It all stemmed from a HR manager treating folks like dirt. He was a Baptist preacher too I might add. Once he was fired and a new replacement was on board everything calmed down.
If workers are treated right a union has no chance of getting in.

 

[Gun guru]

I also worked a for a small company that treated ALL employees like schitt....Salaried, hourly, didnt matter. Well.....This major A-hole got in as the General manager and he was a Nazi, hard-core stomped his heels into the concrete, black-mailed the owner, you name it. He was eventually fired for 8exual harassement. This guy needed to be taken out back and beat up bad with a set of brass knuckles. There was a union in this company years before I worked there and they were on strike for 4 years, finally done with. A union was still needed there. One of the worst places I ever worked, I was there 10 months and I left.

 

[730d se]

Yes, and when a country is losing money and jobs, the last thing their president should be doing is taking more vacations at our expense.
However, just like with bad unions, there are people that support him because THEY are getting something out of it. Who wants to go find a job and lose all of those free benefits? There is NO incentive to find a job, just like there is no incentive for the young girls to not stay pregnant by various lovers. If they have 3 or 4 babys out of wed lock, they can live very well off of our backs.

 

[Dean]

It's hard to argue with that.

Dean

 

[Leroy]

I agree with Gene. The union is why Lima, Ohio has no Kroger stores anymore, (had 2 in town) Now have to go to St. Marys or Sidney. Sidney was going when the Lima unions caused Kroger to shut down and pull out of town. They years later considered coming back to Lima but the union made them rethink that Idea.

 

[Sparktrician]

GeneMO, that is one of the best quotes I have heard in sometime!!! I will be using that somewhere!!

 

[Anonymous-0]

Think unions where they are present let any nationality or race of people join them if they want and pay dues. The news said that the top 25 corporations in the US pay their CEO's average 16.5 million annual salary. Have to wonder if CEO's are worth that, while paying their workers maybe 35-45 K annual wage. The average CEO in a foreign country earns 1.5 million per year. Something seems askew in this country when there is that much difference between workers and management salary's. Don't guess unions have much control over that gap. Unions best days seem to be in the past now.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 10:02:40 09/02/11) Think unions where they are present let any nationality or race of people join them if they want and pay dues. The news said that the top 25 corporations in the US pay their CEO's average 16.5 million annual salary. Have to wonder if CEO's are worth that, while paying their workers maybe 35-45 K annual wage. The average CEO in a foreign country earns 1.5 million per year. Something seems askew in this country when there is that much difference between workers and management salary's. Don't guess unions have much control over that gap. Unions best days seem to be in the past now.

ummmmmmmmmm.....sounds like being in a union puts a severe salary cap on a feller......might think he would want to get out from under that & move on up.

 

[dr sportster]

I thought it was previously concluded that all union members were commies and we should ship the work to China for cheap labor [and where there are no communists]. You should probably move to China and work over there I'm pretty sure they don't beleive in unoins either.

 

[GeneMO]

I guess you could quote me, I didn't get it from anywhere, just made it up on the spot.

Gene

 

[Earl Gray]

China will have Unions someday, it's an economic cycle. When that happens the work will come back here because if the nnalert get there way all blue collar workers will be working for minimum wage and paying there own health insurance!

 

[JMOR]

"paying there own health insurance!
"

Fine with me IF that is a far as it went, BUT, what is happening is that we get to pay for the extra 30 million that don't pay their own way in health care, so we end up with less in order to cover them.
Nobody should pay for my health care AND I should not pay for some other persons health care.

 

[John T]

Again, Im NOT takin sides or talkin good or bad about modern day Unions, but if external_link, Pelosi, Reed, Barbra Streisand, Rosie O Donnell, Hanoi Jane Fonda are on one side of an issue, theres a darn good choice "most" traditional Conservative Christian mainstream Americans (like "most" tractor gents n farmers) including myself, are on the other side lol

John T

 

[AlinArk]

Ye shall know them by their fruits amen
al

 

[RockRon]

...and lost two days of production doing what the boss could have done in minutes if the union didn"t exist.

 

[scotc]

China has unions, but they are used to keep the workers in line, not to make things better for the workers. Walmart's Chinese workers are all union.

 

[scotc]

The spread between wages from the blue collar guys to the brass can be attributed to "Ronaldus Maximus", as one certain hot-air-spewing radio host likes to refer to Raegen. From the time of the New Deal til his tax cuts, there was a higher tax rate above 200K to make sure that the consolidation of wealth that helped lead into the great depression didn't happen again.

The changes in the tax code and deregulation in the 80s has been a large factor in today's economy, which has gone through the same patterns in the last 30 years as it did leading up to the great depression.

 

[redtom]

Been my point exactly for some time!! If anyone works, as most here do, then we're "paying" for everyone! I got to help buy everyone a car, because I pay taxes, I got to help everyone with their mortgage, because I pay taxes, I pay federal and state workers ins premiums, because I pay taxes, I pay for all the bottom feeders babies because I pay taxes. You see? If you work, you get to pay. And I'm lower middle class, union, hourly, Christian, and conservative. I'm all for fair wages and treatment, but I point out to my kids often. Every rich person I know, (lets say 300K/yr up to 3 mill/yr) are SELF employed! In various occupations. So, capitalism does have its rewards. Oh, and as union member I've been downsized, pay froze for 5 yrs, and pay 35% of my ins.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Why can't Kroger pay a decent wage? I overpay them for my groceries. They can give their employees a little in return.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Well I don't believe in federal employees having absurd amounts of vacation time/days off. If you are planning to enjoy your labor day or next Saturday then you've got it better. I'll be heading to my next assignment Labor Day night and working next Saturday. That way we get at least 65 hours in. I'm Union and work with some extremely hard working skilled guys. Maybe we could trade for the week. Oh yeah, you better pack a lunch, supper and a breakfast because we don't stop and we sure as heck don't run to a restaurant for a daily scheduled lunch. And when I'm home I farm. Maybe I should get a real laid back job. Like one where I know my schedule 5 years in advance cause it never changes, wait, I guess thats pretty much every government job.

 

[LenND]

If I remember right one of the main factors in GM bancruptsy resolve was the money LOANED to them from the auto union. If they did that how come you guys don't give them credit for the good (?) things they do? Lot of one sided opinions on this subject.

 

[Bob]

John, you're da MAN!

 

[Anonymous-0]

What about all those war injured soldiers that are being treated in VA and Military hospitals ? We all pay for that. What makes you special, why should you be exempt ?

 

[MarkB_MI]

I didn't see Jane Fonda's post. Hell, I didn't even know she likes tractors!

 

[buickanddeere]

Unions, religion, politics, smoking and drinking alcohol. Five topics where people's minds are made up and won't change.

 

[Anonymous-0]

I like red tractors.

 

[Jerry/MT]

Great observation! It took me a while to learn that.

 

[John T]

Sureeeeeeeee, she loves tractors as long as they are foreign made especially if from her friends in Viet Nam lol

Take care now

Ol John T

 

[big fred]

What's your take on abortion and gun registration? ;o)

 

[Anonymous-0]

B&D lives in Canada...so why do his views on ANYTHING in the US carry any weight?

 

[Steven-Id]

I heard this the other day. Years ago we used to have Ronald Reagan, Johnny Cash and Bob Hope. Now we have external_link, NO CASH and NO HOPE>


Steven

 

[MFPoor]

Unions have a purpose...The drop dead lazy, uninspired, unmotivated, over paid, under worked have to have a place to call their own too.

Once upon a time, they called it extortion, now they call it "organized labor".

 

[PJH]

I hope you are enjoying the Labor Day holiday. AND the 40 hour work week. . .

Weekends are nice, too.

From one who never was a union member, but respects what they have done for the working class.
Untitled URL Link

 

[TomH in PA]

"Why can't Kroger pay a decent wage? "

You just discovered what's called "The Law of Supply and Demand". Kroger's had plenty of people willing to work for the lower wage (demand for labor at the prevailing wage equaled or exceeded the supply of labor at that wage), so they hired them.

When Kroger's was forced to pay a higher wage, they closed the store and all employees are out of a job. Demand for labor at that wage is less than the supply.

But it's a free country, if you think there's a fat profit to be made in Lima by opening a store and paying union wages, go for it.

 

[old popper]

I'm sure glad I like Green ones.

 

[Anonymous-0]

I like the green($) also. The capitalist system has rewarded me very well. You wouldn't believe how many exercise tapes I sold in the 1980's. I only hire non-union, paying union scale and providing benefits would realy hurt the bottom line. I would have to give up my private jet and fly commercial. Given as hard as I have worked, that just dosen't seem right. Don't get me started on how unfair those taxes are ! Besides, it is not cheap fixing up those old Farmalls and Massey's.

 

[Spotted Horse]

Do you union members agree with James Hoffa's speech at the external_link rally?

At what point will we finally start recognizing this as incitement to violence? At what point will we recognize this as a valid threat to safety, both public and as individuals? At what point will we hold these bosses accountable for their acts and the acts they allow others to commit in their name?

 

[pat sublett]

I think our problem on both sides is THE EXTREME.
The EXTREME things are what causes the problem. I was talking to a guy awhile back at the wood shop. He was concerned about his pension. He said he worked for GM and retired with a full pension, same money that he worked for. I asked how much he worked for and he said $25 an hour. I ask him what he did when he worked. He said that he put that big nut on the steering colmn. Thats extreme to me. Thats the reason GM had to be bailed out. Is that the unions fault? No its managements fault that they turned the company over to the union to run.

 

[Spook]

(quoted from post at 18:18:41 09/06/11) I think our problem on both sides is THE EXTREME.
The EXTREME things are what causes the problem. I was talking to a guy awhile back at the wood shop. He was concerned about his pension. He said he worked for GM and retired with a full pension, same money that he worked for. I asked how much he worked for and he said $25 an hour. I ask him what he did when he worked. He said that he put that big nut on the steering colmn. Thats extreme to me. Thats the reason GM had to be bailed out. Is that the unions fault? No its managements fault that they turned the company over to the union to run.

I call BS on this - I am retired from GM, and the pension is nowhere near that much. Actually after age 62, it is probably less than $1500 per month. BTW, the pension was fully funded, so GM now makes no contributions to our pension.