OT - Zero turn comparison

[Royse]

The one on the right is a Toro Z-Master. What they called Commercial back then.
I would put it at mid-range or maybe a little better. Note no ROPS, so not new.
Fabricated heavy duty deck, dual gas tanks, Kawasaki engine
with vertical exhaust and a full cage around it at the rear.
(this is the one I re-powered with a Briggs I/C temporarily)

The one on the left is a Toro TimeCutter home owner version.
The type you would get at the big box stores, etc. No ROPS here either.
Stamped steel deck, single fuel tank, standard Briggs engine with
no protection around it, just a little bumper pipe on the back.

I had them both here so I thought I would take a couple of
pictures just to compare the differences.
The tire sizes are pretty obvious, as well as the size of the frame.
Tool-less removable belt covers with openings to the grease fittings, etc.

The difference in ride comfort is unbelievable.
Like it is between a cheap box store rider and an OLD JD, Case
or Ingersoll garden tractor. Lawn mower vs tractor so to speak.

Noise level on the larger machine is also noticeably quieter,
even though the blades spin faster and the vibration is far less.
Quality of cut is also far better on the larger model.
The decks on these two are close, 44 on the TC, 52 on the Z.

Same brand but it is like comparing apples to oranges.
One of these things is not like the other.

Can you tell which one got used today? We need some more rain. LOL

 

[NEKS]

I have the timecutter. It was given to me by a friend to mow his yard tell he got his house sold. One spindle feel rough when spinning it. No grease zerks.

 

[MarkB_MI]

My neighbor has a lawn cutting business and has two of the older Toros. I don't know if they're the same as yours, but his has a separate pump and motors, rather than transaxles. Nice machines.

My advice is to never buy a mower with a stamped deck. If the manufacturer skimped on the single most important part of the machine, you can be sure corners were skimped everywhere else.

 

[showcrop]

I bought a twelve year old Ferris seven years ago when arthur told me no more walk behind use. It had around 1500 hours on it, and I paid $1500.00. I expect to get many more years out of it at twenty per year, and that a new homeowner mower would be used up in fifteen or so.

 

[ericlb]

one on the right is far better, ride wise, the tires are much of it, the larger tire with the taller sidewall is far more able to soak up minor bumps than the shorter tire is, like a 1950's cadillac, compared to a modern car with razor thin sidewalls on pimp wheels lol a way different ride, for me it would need inspecting wheels can be changed but how thick is the material on the deck and the frame, thicker means A longer lasting, B less prone to crack, and C weldable if it does crack , thats the one id want

 

[Hobo,NC]

When I went zero turn shopping in 2001 I demo a Toro commercial I believe it was 19 HP it was bad arse. I did not buy a toro I brought a Gravely because it had more options and a 25 HP Kawasaki and $400 less. I have no complaints with the Gravely I brought BUT the Toro will out mow it hands down.

I did not demo the gravely if I had I would have paid the difference. I thought they were all the same once you moved up to a commercial, Toro boosted it had the fasted blade speed on the market at that time. Blade tip speed is the difference that Toro took on all comers the Gravely comes up a little short on even with a larger engine.

The Gravely has NO grease fittings it has not been a problem I have rebuild one deck Quil in 15 years. A bud with the Toro one year older has had Two go out but it does have twice the hours on it mine has.

 

[Texasmark1]

I have a DR Pro Z with separate pumps and heavy welded frame, very large tires for a smooth ride, shields and all. It also has the ability (in about 30 seconds) to take the controls and swing them back behind the mower making it a walk behind for steep slopes or driving up and under trees and shrubs, along with other brands and types. Very rugged and reliable machine.

The problem I had with it was that even though it had large tires, there were no springs under the seat, which my Fastrak ZT lack(ed) also. An adjustable spring seat aftermarket adapter was available for $200 which wasn't much better but it put you 2" higher and that put your legs up against the handle bar assy. If you are mowing a plush lawn or have sand for soil, that may be ok, but for Houston Black Clay it leaves you lacking. Solution was to add a mounting plate and a couple of springs that I saw on Cub Cadet ZTs at TSC. For $15 and a little scrap steel and welding time I now have a very comfortable ride.

 

[Russ from MN]

We bought a cheap JD (brand new) this spring from HD, and a not too happy JD dealer from 70 miles away delivered it! I don't understand that system, but
it was the best price on what the wife wanted, and she mows the lawn. It's a 42 inch zero turn with a 20 hp Briggs, not my choice of engine, but it was
cheap. I am sure it will last as long as we live on this place, and our next move will be someplace where someone else mows the grass, hopefully we are
not under it! Our 2 complaints are it's very rigid, does not follow the ground like our Husqvarna, and we should of gotten a 48 inch deck. We have a lot
of trees and have always had 42's but if you come up to a tree and try go around it the rear tire rubs the tree.

 

[JayinNY]

I have a exmark lazer Z, only complaint I have is I
wish when I bought it 11 years ago I got the Diesel
engine option, other than that a great mower with
over 4200 hours on it. Never even had to replace
the front wheel bearings or spindle bearings for the
front wheels.

 

[Geo-TH,In]

If you already have a ZTR, then you don't have to be told how ruff they are. I have back issues. I can only use a riding mower to do trim work. Everyone I know who has a ZTR calls them Dixie Hoppers.

My cpa had one years ago and now uses a 56 inch craftsman made by Husqvarna. Says he'll never have another one, ruff and stirred up the dirt too much, dulled the blades and he need a bath after he was done.

I have to use farm tractors, 72 inch cut, much smoother ride.

 

[Royse]

"If you already have a ZTR, then you don't have to be told how ruff they are."

They're not all the same Geo, that's part of what I was comparing.
If you buy a cheap one like the one on the left they are very
rough and it definitely kicks up way more dust than the other
one. Not to mention it tends to kick it straight out the front.
I guess it's one of those times when you get what you pay for.

 

[OliverGuy]

4200 hours is awesome and the same hourmeter! I can get 4200 on a f.i. motor or liquid cooled. I wish I could get hourmeters to last as long as yours. Weird thing is, my mower ones last a few thousand hours, but my dingo's are all original and never die. And the dingo's are in terrible conditions.

 

[OliverGuy]

Yep, those are completely different machines. I can't tell, but doesn't the 52 have a stamped deck? They last a long time, but we have commercial fabricated decks like Jay's below. They are bulletproof. That deck that's on yours is similar to our 44" and 52" walk behind's. They last forever. I complained back 5 years ago about having to patch two of those stamped decks. Then I looked back through the records and the multiple hourmeters. Pretty sure they had over 8-9,000 hours on them. Dad bought them in the late 80's, used full time and then now they're backups. There's a lot of life left in your 52"!!!!

 

[Royse]

The 52 has a fabricated deck.
It was used commercially and beat up, but it still works well.
Although I think Jay's and mine are quite a bit different in age,
the Lazer-Z and the Z-Masters look nearly identical to me.
Even up close. I wonder if they're made by the same company
like many of the normal lawn mowers.

 

[Phil in Pa]

Price is another big difference between the two.

 

[Royse]

"Price is another big difference between the two."

If you're buying them new it sure is!
I got a good deal on the Z-Master when I bought it.
It came with a nice Toro brand vacuum powered, hard shell,
dump from the seat bagger and weights for the front end to
counter the weight from the bagger. I didn't need either so I
sold them on CraigsList. That sale put the price of the Z-Master
at less than what the used TimeCutter cost me. Dumb luck!

 

[notjustair]

That's why I went with a Deines zero turn. It is set up like a Grasshopper mower with the deck out front independent. The tractor part has larger wheels and only three of them. With that setup it's rare to hit a bump with both front and back tires. They are offset a couple of feet so it spreads out the ride.

The mowers with the deck as part of the frame ride on those little front tires. Man that's rough. I've used the neighbor's Z950 Deere and it's worse than a lumber wagon. It has those solid tires upfront. I feel like I'm going to be bumped to death!

 

[showcrop]

(quoted from post at 12:20:12 08/10/16) If you already have a ZTR, then you don't have to be told how ruff they are. I have back issues. I can only use a riding mower to do trim work. Everyone I know who has a ZTR calls them Dixie Hoppers.

My cpa had one years ago and now uses a 56 inch craftsman made by Husqvarna. Says he'll never have another one, ruff and stirred up the dirt too much, dulled the blades and he need a bath after he was done.

I have to use farm tractors, 72 inch cut, much smoother ride.

I have to say that my Ferris rides well.

 

[JayinNY]

The hour meter is correct, but the mower is on it's 3rd crap kohler command engine! Lol, I should have went diesel, But I thought if I bought the mower with a diesel engine the engine would outlast the mower? Big mistake I should have bought it with a diesel engine, The amount I've paid for re placement Kohlers would have justified the diesel purchase in the beginning.

 

[Royse]

"crap kohler command"

Isn't that redundant? LOL I love the old cast iron Kohler singles
they used in JD, Ford, Jacobsen, Cub Cadet, Case etc.
Apparently all good things must end.
The brand name and its reputation fall to the stockholders.

 

[WGM]

Kohler Command engines are great engines. When I worked for a consruction company we had seversl pieces of equipment with Command engines which served for thousands of trouble free hours. But with any engines proper maintenance is the key. Perhaps you meant Kohler Courage engines. They are junk. But they are built for a specific market, low cost home owner equipment.

 

[WGM]

Love my Dixie Chopper!

 

[4play]

All or most brands have a cheap line, and then same way up to the top line commercial. What gets me is the people who buy the cheap line and then swear the entire line is junk for "x" reason.

 

[Geo-TH,In]

My sister has a deere ztr, BIL modified the seat, still RUFF.

Neighbor has a BAD BOY ztr, he complains it kills his back. Half the time he uses a 48 inch riding mower.

I've seen a few landscapers use a mower they stand up on. They claim it's easier on their backs too.

I've yet to talk to anyone with a ZTR that doesn't say they are ruff.

Neighbor has a rear engine snapper. The frame is similar to ZTR, not a zero turn, and it too shakes your teeth lose.

 

[JayinNY]

No we the kohler command 27 hp, horizontal shaft engines, kohler dident use bearings to support the crank shaft and cam shaft, they just run in the aluminum engine case, between 2 mowers we went threw 6 engines 3 for my brothers mower and 3 for mine, $1800 a pop, last one I bought says it has a bearing on the pto side of the crankshaft now.

 

[OliverGuy]

I don't have great luck with diesels. They are great on fuel and longevity, but repairs sure are expensive. The old fuel injected and liquid cooled ones I can get a lot of hours out of. You're right, the straight Kohlers are ok, but don't have the best longevity.

 

[oldtanker]

I got a ZT mower about 2 months ago, new. It's not as smooth riding as the Ford 8N is but I needed either another tractor so one could be a dedicated mower or a dedicated mower. It takes me about the same time to mow and I went from 60" to 48".

Talking about engines. I also purchased a new walk behind string trimmer. It has the Briggs "never change the oil" engine. The engine owners manual say never change the oil just add as needed. The mower manual not only tells you to change the oil but tells you every 25 hours or once a year, whichever occurs first.

Rick