Outdoor sewer pump experience?

[Anonymous-0]

Hello all, I just had a 30x70 Morton pole building built with a slab floor for my small business, and have to install an outdoor sewage pump for my commode. The septic is 150ft away. I was wondering if I need to go with a bit more expensive grinder pump, or just the standard sewer pump that they say will pass 2 inch round solids, will be enough. There will be some women and children using the bathroom, and although I will post a sign about not flushing feminine products, and kids not throwing stuff in the toilet, people don't always read.

Also the 150ft run is mostly level with a 2in PVC line, so 1/2hp sewer pump should be plenty?

Thanks!

 

[Anonymous-0]

Where will the pump be located?

 

[Anonymous-0]

The commode will be just inside an exterior wall, so the tank will be on the outside of that wall buried in the ground. Maybe 3-4 ft from the commode to the tank. Gravity drop to the tank, and pump out of the tank 150ft to the septic.

 

[Ga Jack]

go with the grinder pump.
I am sure your have considerd several clean outs on this 150 foot run? Contact HERR PUMP in Landcaster, PA.
Good luck

 

[Anonymous-0]

Never thought of cleanouts. How would you do it with 2in PVC pipe? a Y?

 

[CNKS]

Septic systems use 4 inch PVC -- don't go any smaller or you are likely to have problems. If you have county zoning which means you need a permit for anything you do, it is very likely that they will require a separate septic tank for the building -- so don't tell any authorities what you are doing!

 

[Anonymous-0]

Yes 4in pipe between the commode and tank. It is 3-4 ft gravity drop into the tank. But the (pump) has a 2in port that goes to the septic.

http://www.do-it-yourself-pumps.com/outdoor-burial-sewage-pump-package.htm

Is a photo of the setup.

 

[Anonymous-0]

You need a septic tank,probably 600 gallons,into which your toilet will drain thru a 4" ABS pipe.The sewage drains from the septic tank into an approximately 150 gall. pump chamber.The pump sits on the bottom of the pump chamber and is activated by a float.The sewage is pumped thru a 1.5 in. or 2" line to the septic field.

 

[Anonymous-0]

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH MY SEPTIC TANK. THE BUILDING IS TOO FAR AWAY FOR A GRAVITY FEED FROM THE COMMODE SO I HAVE TO PUMP IT FROM A LITTLE TANK.

FOR THOSE KIND WELL MEANING FOLKS THAT CANNOT COMPREHEND THIS, HERE IS A ILLUSTRATION.

http://www.do-it-yourself-pumps.com/outdoor-burial-sewage-pump-package.htm

I DON'T KNOW HOW I CAN MAKE MY QUESTION ANY CLEARER.

 

[Anonymous-0]

don't you just love some of the anwnsers you get here . some people either don't completely read the question or don't comprehend what is being asked and then shoot from the hip with erronious information . in cases where safety or expensive decisions are involved you had best verify with a reliable source . don't even ask how to wire up some simple electrical battery operated circuit because you will be told you need a licented master electritian or electrical engeneer other wise you are will be electrocuted or the world will come to an end . i have gotten a lot of good information here but you need to be able determine who to listen to .

 

[Anonymous-0]

If the powers that be will let you, I would suggest adding a second septic tank near your new business building to deal with the toilet waste. I would use a 2 chamber tank with an automatic sump pump made for septic systems in the second chamber, with that pump attached to the existing 2" line. Then the 2" line would only have to move fairly clean water to your existing septic tank and drainfield.

In my area, most new septic systems are required to use pressure mounds, which are above the level of the surrounding land. To make them work, they use the 2 or more chambered tanks and pump the effluent out into the above ground mounds. These pressure mounds can be very expensive, and of course don't work at all without electricity. I am sure glad my septic system is the old fashioned gravity type! I believe in the principle of KISS...

I could be wrong, but I would really worry about pumping ANY solids 150 feet through a 2" pipe, unless there was plenty of downslope and plenty of water to flush out the pipe after the solids had passed through it each and every time. It might be a REAL PAIN to get the 150 feet of 2" pipe unstopped if it happened to clog. I think it would be a lot safer to only be moving more or less clear water, even if you have to have a septic tank truck pump the second septic tank solids out once in awhile. Good luck!

 

[Anonymous-0]

Randy,
Check with your local plumbing supply house and they can give you the manfactures spec on the pums they sell..don't exceed the manf's specs.

As a class A master plumber I would ere on the side of a larger pump verses smaller. A 150' run almost level is going to require a fairly good size pump.

Something to think about..a battery powered back up system. Loose power and you pump will still work.

 

[buickanddeere]

Septic systems are rated on the number of people using it. With your home already on there and how many staff & customers adding extra load to the system? Sorry but the laws of physics & biology say the least required is a second tank beside the shop. And it maybe pushing the capacity of the weeping bed even with the 2nd tank?
Any processes in the shop going into the septic system? Anybody washing greasy hands & using lots of soap or solvents?
For drains from sinks, water fountains, showers etc? How about a 2nd simple cheap grey water system to handle that waste & reduce load on the septic system?
What are the soil types down from the surface in the vicinity on the building?

 

[buickanddeere]

After reading the initial question and subsequent questions from the initial poster.
There are sometimes some people without sufficient experience, skill, tools or materials attempting tasks beyond the possibility of success.
Their attempts at saving time & money are just going to ruin the equipment & place themselves & others in danger.
There are too many people who think twisting wires together,wrapping with any old kind of tape and tucking that wad into a ceiling or under a vehicle. And expecting years of safe & trouble free service.
Or the the intrepid tinkerer just can't grasp why the ground & neutral are two different systems. Or why anybody would want a generator transfer switch. And don't even expect them to value when a two or three pole trans switch is required.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Hal, Runwolf, thanks for the replys, now we are getting somewhere.

As far as installing a new septic that is pretty much out. Same issues here with the sand mound stuff. I am lucky as there is 2 on my property already. To bad the closest one is 150ft.

I never thought of the 2" line clogging. Maybe I should get a grinder pump to slurry the waste, and stay away from water saver commodes. I could also go to 3 or 4 inch pipe?

On another note I will have (some) slope from the commode to the septic. With a hand held site level I estimate 2 ft maybe.I haven't calculated exactly much yet, I am getting a builders level when I rent the ditchwitch Tuesday.

Say I have the 1/8-3/16 ft slope, Can I expect it to run 150ft?

This commode might be used 5 times a day max.

Thanks for the help!

 

[john nelson]

We have about 20 sewage syestems, from 1/2 hp to 10 hp, most being dual pump syestems. The non grinder solids pump is much simpler, and less maintence, adjusting cutters etc. The cutters are quite expensive, and they do wear. When they are worn anything will snag on them and lock the pump up. We have a 1 hp pump handeling a bathouse and commerical marnia, with a 50' lift. All our solids pumps have a small settling tank, but still sometimes become clogged. Make sure you can get to them and clean them. A couple of campground ones have screens installed around the pump base, works fine.
Good luck
John

 

[Anonymous-0]

If the pipe is not in the ground yet, I would certainly use 4" rather than the 2". I would also put access ports that you can get to from the surface without digging very much, since I would not be a bit surprised if you end up having to unclog the pipe from time to time. It would be very important that the slope of the pipe be constant, and that there are no "bellies" or low spots in the pipe, since that is where you would have the worst chances of it clogging.

Too bad they won't allow you to use the close by extra septic tank. That would be the best solution to your problem and I would guess it would also end up being cheaper than using a macerator pump system and the amount of water you will need to use to keep the pipe clean. Have you asked your local officials? In some places officials are a lot more reasonable and practical than in others.

And I suppose it is out of the question to just put in a septic tank with a clear water sewage pump without saying much about it to anyone. My neighbors fixed up his deceased parents old farmhouse to sell and put in a septic tank and drainfield with no permits or anything. That house had indoor plumbing, but for 50 or more years, they just ran the sewage out on the ground by their barnyard, all of which was down the hill from the house. Just letting the sewage run out didn't ever seem to cause any problems--no smell, and the solids just seemed to disappear along with the cow manure. The grass just stayed green all year in that area and grew real well. But they didn't think they could sell the old farmstead without a septic system and they didn't want to go through the expense and hassle of putting in a pressure mound. So they just rented a backhoe, put in the tank and piping and covered it up. Then they sold the place a few months later. The gravity system seems to have worked fine for the last 10 years, or so. But that area of the property no longer has the luxurious green grass all the time!

Could they have gotten in trouble for doing it that way? Maybe, if someone complained or ratted them out, but apparently no one did. To my way of thinking, they put in a system that was done like it probably should have been done half a century ago. And probably a lot more sanitary than running the raw sewage out into the cow pasture.

I guess it might make a difference depending on how rural your area is. You don't want to risk polluting a neighbor's well. And you don't want to get yourself in trouble.

Another thought: you can gain some elevation at the high end of the pipe by installing your toilet on a slightly raised floor. It makes it a little more of a hassle to have to step up to go into the rest room, but might later make it much easier to work on the piping if you have to. Unless you are in an extreme cold area, you shouldn't have to bury the pipe very deep, assuming the liquid in the pipe is always moving fairly fast.

And I sure wouldn't fool around with one of those stupid 1.6 gallon toilets. I had them in my house and they plugged almost every time more than a little bit of TP was flushed. I never had needed to use a plunger much before, and hated those worthless government mandated POS's. I replaced all the 1.6 units with recycled old siphon jet models from the 70's and now hardly ever need to find a plunger. And I doubt that I am using any more water, since the 1.6 junkers needed to be flushed several times to do the job one flush does with the old toilets.

Don't you just love our government??? Good luck, I hope you can figure out a good solution to the problem that won't cost an arm and a leg.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Hal, great advice, I appreciate your thoughts and the time you took to respond to my issue. I am rethinking all of this right now. Like maybe getting a composting toilet.

Randy

 

[evilboweviel]

when I did the same thing I was told that a flat line was better than one that was sloped heavily. Ran about 100' with less than 1' total drop than wye'd another line in for another building after which we could drop another 1' in the next fifty feet. Worked fine with a 1.6 gal toilet. did use 4" line with a couple of cleanouts in it. used wye's. had a 3.5 gal toilet in the house put up with it until after installing the 1.6 in the shop, then changed to a 1.6 in the house also. Only way to go is a 1.6 have 3 in my current house no way I will go back to the older 3.5 gallon toilets.
Ron

 

[Anonymous-0]

That makes a lot of sense about the slope. It takes water to get the solids through the pipe and if the water moves faster than the solids they get left behind. I am trying to see how a 4 inch line could work with a pump like we are discussing though. It seems that there is so much room in the pipe the solids would get left behind.

Thanks for the reply.