Pertronix Electronic Ignition?

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Howdy ya"ll. I"m new to this site, having recently purchased a 1950 8n in great condition.
It starts and runs fine but is in need of some freshening up and general maintenance. When I was looking to order a tune-kit, I saw a Pertronix electronic ignition conversion available. Does anyone have any experience with such a conversion? Any recommendations? (I"d mainly be doing to avoid messing with point gap & dwell, as well as more accurate timing.)

 

[Dell (WA)]

jdaugh........Pertronix conversion in the 5-nipple sidemount distributor is pretty good iff'n yer tractor has already been converted to 12-volts. The 6-volt conversion is semi-probamatical as it is very sensitive to low battery volts and will not start when cranking pulls the 6-volt battery down but regular points will start. (all batterys loose some volts when starter motor drags the battery, its a chemical reaction thing) the batterys recover but the Pertronix don't sparkle while down.

The Pertronix conversion for the 4-nipple frontmount is even more "temperamental" about battery volts and is NOT a "drop-in" conversion like the 5-nipple sidemount.

You might want to check the "archives" at the top of the page of this great N-Board with all the "problems" non-technical owners have with the Pertronix.

Bottom line, you can replace a whole lotta ignition points for the cost of a Pertronix conversion. My points life on my eazy starting 6-volt sidemount 52-8N is about 10-years.

I'm NOT ANTI-ELECTRONIC ignition, I have one in my semi-race 165hp 7500rpm BMW 2002. I just haven't been convinced of the "need" for my low rpm 52-8N. I made my first electronic ignition from "scratch" in 1963, for my '56 Dodge D-500 Hemi-V8........Dell, yer self-appointed sparkie-meister

 

[Anonymous-0]

DELL.....I really don't know much the interworking's but I do know this:


Next time you are on a BOEING and the SUN on YOUR side, place,(GENTLY) a hand on the WINDOW.

The window should be at least WARMER than YOUR hand. If NOT, then YOU are not "high enough".

Especially if you are a going from a light house area to DENVER country!


I have never seen the passengers on board try this. And why not??

I believe as kids, mom told them...."I just cleaned the windows..don''t get them DIRTY!


THANK YOU.

 

[gahorN]

(quoted from post at 00:36:00 12/07/08) ... (I"d mainly be doing to avoid messing with point gap & dwell, as well as more accurate timing.)

My 9N has the same cheap $7 points/condenser, unadjusted, un-messed with, for the last 6 years. It always starts right up, runs real good, and I work that tractor year round.

When I bought 'em, I also bought spares. Total invested = $14. Half that money remains wasted.

Do a search and your will find all kinds of frustrated owners asking questions here trying to figger out what's wrong with their Pertronix ignition. They might be only the few that has a problem and mayby there's thousands out there quietly doin' their thing properly.... but it's hard for me to see how even the successful conversions have saved any money or trouble, when I go out on a cold day and my ordinary trouble-free points just fire right up and motor off to work.

 

[Bill(Wis)]

johN:::::: Would'nt your LsSt Name be MURDOCK???? SEE the ReasoN I GOTTA asK IS Just BECause I kNew THIS GUY MURDOCK Who could FLY..>WELL He cOuldn't FLY JUST tHOUghT HE cOULD his helLicopter flew ASCTually Nd that Was caUSEd by NOISE> Lots OF NoISE GOOD<<<GOOD. WONderfull!WonDErful!!

 

[Bruce (VA)]

My last set of points in my 1950 frontmount lasted 1 month short of 4 years, and that is by no means a record. If you are having problems w/ the points, it could be because of any number of things, none of which will be cured by electronic ignition. Is your N a 6v w/ a front distributor? If so, an electronic ignition (EI) for the 6v frontmount is not a wise choice. The 6v coil is really designed to run off of 3v (that's why the ballast resistor is in the circuit) Because of the precise voltage requirements of the EI, even a slightly discharged battery will result in a 'no start' situation. While a 12v conversion & EI will give many years of effortless operation....it does not come w/o problems. The first is cost; compare the costs of annually changing the points/plugs/ condenser/ rotor ($20) vs the cost of a 12v conversion ($145, plus $40 for a 12v battery, or $185) and add to that the cost of the EI ($150) and you get a 12 year pay-back. The second problem is that an EI is quite unforgiving of polarity reversal & other common mistakes of tractor ownership; hook up the battery cables backward & you fry the $150 EI. (unless you get the kit w/ the fuse) Of course, a 12v conversion & EI installation can be done for less than $235....but, if you have the ability to do a 12v conversion & EI, you could fix the problems that are being "solved" by the 12v conversion & EI installation in the first place. Simply put, these are low HP, low compression engines that start & run just fine off of 6v & points. Unless you need to run 12v auxiliary equipment, or have a worn out engine in need of a rebuild & you want to buy some time by having the faster spinning 12v to improve starting.....a 12v conversion is not really necessary. Likewise, an EI on an N is a lot of overkill.....IMHO!

EI does not give you a hotter spark, more HP, or cure male pattern baldness. It replaces the points. That’s it. EI will not cure worn distributor bushings, a bad ballast resistor, an ill-fitting coil or any other typical ignition problems found on these old tractors. All you get by putting an EI on an N w/ these problems is a poorly running N w/ an EI instead of points.

If you want to solve the problem w/ the points, tell us what the symptoms are & plenty of folks can help you out.

Forgive me if this doesn't apply to you, but I've seen folks on this board who wanted to convert the tractor to EI because they were tired of removing the radiator & hood just to replace or adjust the points.

Lastly, scroll down on this page & read the post from CJ in MI.
50 Tips

 

[Anonymous-0]

Locked caps, I think. I write the same way, sometimes. After I have composed, I just send, ANYHOW. Never know. If received, anyhow, these days.

 

[Jerry9N]

My 9N has electronic ignition and a 12 volt conversion, with a 12 volt round ignition coil. I love it. It always starts and runs just fine, no muss or fuss. Electronic ignition is reliable, look at how many cars out there run well over one hundred thousand miles with out ignition troubles. Sure, points are cheap, and can last years, but I'd rather use my tractor than work on it, and I use my tractor winter spring summer and fall.
I'm old enough to be comfortable working with points, and I still own vehicle that has points in it, and it runs fine too, but it does require the occasional tinkering, however I don't need it to run in the winter like my tractor does.
Enjoy your new tractor!
Jerry.

 

[Hobo,NC]

12Vs is far superior to 6V as the rest have told ya,,, electronic is far superior to a points system as the rest have told ya. Evey engine I have ever converted to electronic has had a noticeable improvement the #1 improvement is on a cold start. I don't know what the disadvantage is using a 6V electronic set up is other than the 6v system is sub par to start off with. Its a thresh hole that limits the use of alot of thangs. 12Vs can overcome the limits of a 6v system,,, it must cuz I have never seen a argument that it could not. What you will get out of most when you ask this question is that in reality we are 2 cheap to try something that for all practical purpose seams to show little benefit. If I go to the barn and start my EZ starting 12V side mt dist points tractor and experience a no start i can usually git the ignition work'n with what I normaly tote in my shirt pocket (pocket screwdriver) are at the least have a I.D. of what I need to go fetch to git it to fire up. This is were the Cheap part comes in :lol: (add me to that list).The benefit to the electronic set up is when all it rite with the world theirs no maintenance to it but fix'n a no start will require the tractor to come into the shop on the hook. Only about 1% of the folks out their would have the knowledge to quickly diagnose a no spark problem with electronic,,, seams now days not many more can git a points system to fire either. Unlike some of the other electronic ignition manufacturers that I have a deal'n with were they were extremely helpful with diagnosing a ignition problem Pertronix ranks rite on the bottom. I have made one may B 2 calls 2 Pertronix and if I had not keep talk'n and push'n I would have got little are know help. That would b my beef little 2 know support :roll: The little to no maintenance issue sure is inviting,,, iffin one can not chiffer his point system out its going on the trailer anyways so seams to B a good gamble



http://www.gill.co.uk/products/digital_ignition/Introduction/spark_ign_index.asp

 

[jdaughhotmail.com]

Thanks for all the great advice!
I was actually thinking along the same lines...Why fix it if ain't broke? The tractor starts & runs fine even when cold. It's a front mount distributor, already converted to 12V, using the tried & true Delco 10SI I remember from yesteryear. The points are wearing fine, but the cap is badly grooved and one tower is broken, plug wires are cracked, and coil is held on with Zip ties (modern bailing wire? LOL). I haven't tried it, yet, but I bet it won't run in the rain.

I'm an aircraft mechanic by trade, therefore a perfectionist with a spare-no-expense attitude toward maintenance. I have no problem with the cost of upgrading to EI, but not if reliablity may suffer. (If the points weren't so hard to get to on this thing, I probably wouldn't even consider it.)

Again, thanks for the expertise and careful thought. Merry Christmas!

James
Abilene, TX

 

[Dell (WA)]

JIm........you write......."the cap is badly grooved and one tower is broken, plug wires are cracked, and coil is held on with Zip ties (modern bailing wire? LOL). I haven't tried it, yet, but I bet it won't run in the rain.

I'm an aircraft mechanic by trade, therefore a perfectionist with a spare-no-expense attitude toward maintenance".......fix yer dang tractor then 'stedda' lolly-gaggin' about Pertronix. It ain't the cure to yer problems.

1) cap is grooved 'cuz yer rotor bushings are bad, replace the points plate
2) #2 sparkie tower is broke 'cuz yer frontaxle kingpin is wallered out and tilts and breaks the sparkie tower
3) replace yer cracked and dried-out BAD insulation sparkie wires with NEW COPPER-CORE sparkie wires. This is sumptin' even a beginner shadetree mechanic should recognize as BAD, let alone alone a self-proclaimed experienced aircraft mechanic.

You do know it is a 2-bolt, 15-min job to remove yer 4-nipple frontmount distributor and adjust the points (0.015) on the kitchen table, don't you??? Because the distributor is driven by an "off-set" tang drive scheme, you cannot install outta time. Simple, eh? .......respectfully, Dell, yer self-appointed sparkie-meister and SCOLD

 

[gregy]

Where in WA. are you located Dell? Greg , Moses Lake.

 

[Bruce (VA)]

Points hard to get at? No, not at all. The distributor comes off the tractor to adjust/replace the points.

 

[gahorN]

(quoted from post at 13:45:11 12/07/08) .. This is sumptin' even a beginner shadetree mechanic should recognize as BAD, let alone alone a self-proclaimed experienced aircraft mechanic.

... Simple, eh? .......respectfully, Dell, yer self-appointed sparkie-meister and SCOLD

You were kinda rough on him, heh?, Del?

I don't think he was implying that because he worked on aircraft that he was better than any other mechanic who happened to work on sumpin' else. He was probably just saying he wasn't experienced on tractors although he was capable of understanding the mechanics thereof...if someone would just teach 'im. :wink:

"Aircraft" mechanics are NOT better'n tractor mekanix. They are, in fact, less bright. This is proven by the fact that they work for less per-hour than auto-mechanics,.... do NOT benefit by a "flat rate" system,... must respond 24-hours a day including Xmas day if a plane breaks down... and must sign and certificate their work under threat of federal prosecution should they make a mistake. They could go to work at the auto dealership and make more money working fewer hours and have less liability...except they are too dumb to leave aviation. - George (a fellow aircraft wrench-and-hammer worker) :lol:

 

[jdaughhotmail.com]

Thanks, Dell, but let me repeat: THE TRACTOR RUNS FINE, EVEN WHEN COLD. With all it's minor discrepancies, I'm surprised it runs as well as it does. Yes, the plug wires are cracked and need replacing. Even moonshine-sluggin, corncob pipe-smokin, coverall-wearin, hillbilly tractor mechanics know that. (That's how you test for spark, right, by sucking on #1 wire while Mama cranks her over?)

To clarify...what you misunderstood was the comparison of aviation mx to tractor mx. For one thing, tractors don't have to be 100% reliable, 100% of the time like airplanes do. Why is that, you ask? Mainly because tractors don't fall out of the sky when they quit running, killing all on board. Thus, the issue of cost vs. reliablity (safety) is of much greater concern. If EI is more reliable, I don't mind paying for it. It's THAT simple.

I asked a simple question and you made all sorts of goofy assumptions. I've been in the USAF for 22 years, serving as a Crew Chief (general aircraft maintenance) on six different airframes, from C-5's to C-130's. We don't have shade trees where I work. If we did, that'd make me a tractor mechanic, wouldn't it? (Touche.)

 

[CJ in Michigan]

My 52 8N 6v with E.I. ran good this summer, would not start yesterday. Took out the E.I., put in points and condenser, fired right up.

 

[Hobo,NC]

(quoted from post at 22:23:04 12/07/08) Thanks, Dell, but let me repeat: THE TRACTOR RUNS FINE, EVEN WHEN COLD. With all it's minor discrepancies, I'm surprised it runs as well as it does. Yes, the plug wires are cracked and need replacing. Even moonshine-sluggin, corncob pipe-smokin, coverall-wearin, hillbilly tractor mechanics know that. (That's how you test for spark, right, by sucking on #1 wire while Mama cranks her over?)

To clarify...what you misunderstood was the comparison of aviation mx to tractor mx. For one thing, tractors don't have to be 100% reliable, 100% of the time like airplanes do. Why is that, you ask? Mainly because tractors don't fall out of the sky when they quit running, killing all on board. Thus, the issue of cost vs. reliablity (safety) is of much greater concern. If EI is more reliable, I don't mind paying for it. It's THAT simple.

I asked a simple question and you made all sorts of goofy assumptions. I've been in the USAF for 22 years, serving as a Crew Chief (general aircraft maintenance) on six different airframes, from C-5's to C-130's. We don't have shade trees where I work. If we did, that'd make me a tractor mechanic, wouldn't it? (Touche.)

The 6V nutz take any modification to better yer tractor as a sin,,, its just something one has to live with 2 get along around here. If i had a front mount 12V set up I would convert that sucker in a heart beat 2 EI,,, I very much dislike a front mount dist so anything to keep me from fudgen with it I would do. I spec as much as they have to fudge with it they can git it down to 15 min.,,, I am rite good with a wranch and must have not had the misfortune to have to fudge with'em enuff cuzz i can not do one in my sleep much less 15 min.

Actually I have came to dislike 6v only for one reason,,, The 6V nutz jump 2 conclusions any time 12vs is mentioned :lol: Why they chose to spank a guy I dunno why they thank hes dumber than dirt i dunno,,, not 2 many come along like you I would go EI just fer the ell of it 8)

 

[Hobo,NC]

Iffin I were look'n I would call these folks,,, they specialize in tractor carbs and dist.



http://www.external_link.com/

 

[G6 at Snook, TX]

Hobo,

The new MS carbs they sell, are they worth it? Or would it be better to send them an old cast iron shell and let them spruce it up? I take it you think high enough of them to recommend them.

 

[Hobo,NC]

(quoted from post at 04:09:32 12/08/08) Hobo,

The new MS carbs they sell, are they worth it? Or would it be better to send them an old cast iron shell and let them spruce it up? I take it you think high enough of them to recommend them.

The black MS carbs have been a problem for me,,, are lets say the first one was and I don't wanna c another :twisted: . Nuttin wrong with a man make'n money but their new' carbs are a little out of range :roll:
The rebuilds are also,,, altho I would like to git that for a rebuild :lol: sometimes its worth it. Their price on the EI and the fact I have called and talked to a real person that answered a question about my EI problem is why I would consider them for a EI set up. If one does not know are don't have the ability to do a bang up job rebuilding a dist then they need to git it into the hands of someone that knows his chit,,, money well spent

 

[Anonymous-0]

The front mount has gaskets that are usually left out.

 

[GunPilot]

Very true 36coupe - what he's referring to is a gasket that goes between the distributor cap and the distributor on the front mounts. It spaces the cap out a bit.

As I related in another thread, the aftermarket caps we're getting don't fit correctly. They are too shallow and cause the rotor to hit the plastic bumps inside where the contacts come through from the spark plug towers. I went through several 'new' caps before giving up and putting on an old OEM FOrd cap that fit perfectly and runs fine. Not putting the gasket in exacerbates this problem.

FWIW, I 12-volted and Pertronixed both my '49 8N frontmount
and my '55 860. Wouldn't have them any other way.