plow confusion

[hoosierhog]

I just realized my neighbor across the street pulls a 2-14 plow with his 8n with according to tractor data has a draw bar hp of 22hp with an operating weight of 2700lbs so my 65 ford 4000 with a draw bar hp of 42hp and operating weight of 4880lbs should pull 4-14s at least on paper. I have pulled 2-14s and the tractor didn't even know it was there. 3-14s she knows shes plowing but could she run 4-14s or even 3-16s? and if the 8n will pull a 5ft disc wouldn't my 4000 pull a 10 i have an 8ft and it does great some times i have to raise it up in the wetter spots on the first pass but the second it will pull it in 5th gear no problem. I found a ten foot disc same make and model in a fence row the next road over seems to be okay needs a hyd cyl and new wheels i was gonna junk it but if my tractor can pull it i may keep it. so question is 65 ford 4000 can i go a bit bigger with my tillage equipment since i can get them free or next to nothing anyways?

 

[JDseller]

Hoosierhog plowing speeds changed over the years. They used to plow at 2-3 mph More modern plows work better at 4-5 mph. Your tracotr will pull 4-14 plows BUT you will be going slower. So the end result is that you will not be gaining that much more. Plus you will get stuck much easier trying to pull 4-14 rather than 3-14.

As for 3-16 You should pull them well. I would recomend a Ford or MF 3-16 plow. They are lighter than a John Deere or Oliver plow. The weight on the three point is a bigger problem on a Ford 4000 than HP to pull them. Tire size is another issue. The low profil utility tractors with shorter tires will not pull as much as a taller tire. You did not say which Ford 4000 you have.

I would stick with the eight foot disk. The ten will get you stuck faster too.

 

[hoosierhog]

I have a 1965 ford 4000 3cly gas with 13.6-38 tires and adjustable front axle built in basaldon england i dont know if its a utility but with the tire size a adjustable front axle im guessing its a row crop but it does have rounded fenders i only bale around 30 acres now and will be farming 4-12 in crops next year and hope to keep growing from there.

 

[Deere Scotty]

I plowed several weeks ago pulling a 4-14 "4340" Oliver plow with 81 DB HP. I couldnt get over 4mph without dragging the engine down. There are lots of factors that determine needed HP. Soil, % of moisture, hills, speed, plow depth worn parts, & the list goes on. I was plowing a field of fescue grass that hasnt been turned for years. Even wet it was hard as a rock!

Scotty

 

[Ron Sa]

The size of plow to put behind a tractor depends on whether bragging rights are more important than doing the job right. My ground is about 10% really tough clay. The other 90% turns over easy. In my case, doing the job right means plowing the clay as deep, or deeper, than the easy ground. This requires a heavy tractor with lots of TRACTION.

Years ago I bought a 730 Case and a 4-16 plow. Had to lift some in the tough clay. Later, I bought a 1170 Case rated at 6 bottoms but I kept the 4-16 plow. When plowing the clay, the 1170 does a front tire dance in 4th with six weights on the front but I can turn the tough clay and mix trash up to 12 inches deep.
Rule of thumb if you have tough spots that need trash mixed into and your ego allows, let your plow size be 2/3 your tractor's rating. Another benefit of using the small plow is one can fall plow when the ground is wet and traction is marginal.

 

[Fordfarmer]

Ford's 3-cylinder 4000 row crop didn't come out until '66, and had flat top fenders and a flat operator's platform... so I'm betting yours is a utility model. They were available with 30" and 38" rear wheels. ("SU" models had 28", and some -British models?- had 36")

 

[Leroy]

Sounds like yours is the 4100 model in that it is neither a utility or a row crop. the 4000SU is the utility version and it has 28" tires, then the 4100 with 38" tires in the configuration that some call a high-utility (Deere with the 2020H, same exact rated HP as the 4000) and you straddel the transmission and then the 4200 is the row crop version, a lot less of them made, that could be had with a wide front end, trycical front end or single front wheel but they had a flat deck above the transmission for your feet. I had both a 65 and a 68 version of the 4100 both with 13.6 X 38" tires They are both rated a 52 max PTO HP and that is the standard rating of what all tractors up thru that time frame were rated on. I also have a 1944 2N and a 1941 9N and they are rated at 23 MAX PTO HP. Dad bought the 2N new and the dealer brought out a 2-14" plow with it and after a couple of rounds of trying to get it set up he took that plow back and brought out a 2-12" plow for the tractor as the 14" was too much and I still have that 2-12" plow. On the 65 4100 it was rebored twice so it had more power than normall amd it put out 60 on the dyno and the plow we had for it was the earliest model Oliver mounted plow and it was set for 3-16" and it was all it wanted, the 68 was standard with not as much power and pulled a Deere 3-14" with it. Had a 65 Ford 5000 (5100) and a 4-14" M-F semi mount for it. There is no way I would have put that 4-14 behind either 4100 tractors. I used the 3-16 different times behind the 5100 because it was all it had plus it took a couple of hours to change wheel tread for that semi mount. Now on the disk I had a pair of 9' that we had for the A John Deeres and a 13' bought for the 5000 and we used both behind the 4000 depending on the job we wanted to do, The 13' was too much for the 4000 behind fresh plowed ground but for spring after fall plowing they would have handled it but mostly used it behind the 5000 altho I did pull it with the Late JD A rated at 38 but putting out a bit more as it had oversize high compression pistons in it. Pulled 3-12" plows with that A. Would have liked to have had a 4-12" for the 4000. and would have liked to have had a 11' disk instead of the 13' as it would have been a better all around fit and same width working as the field cultivator. Had duals for all Ford 4000 & 5000 and Deeres.

 

[Allan in NE]

42hp "might" pull two bottoms if they are in the ground.

None of this 5-6" scratching around nonsense. Use a 10-inch Cresent to measure the furrow depth. :>)

Allan

 

[Fordfarmer]

I like that... someone else who calls an 'adjustable wrench' a Cresent. Was beginning to think no one else did anymore.
Around here, an 8N does OK with 2-14's, and a 4000 can handle 3-14's or 3-16's.

 

[Farmallb]

Lotds of variances here. I have my grandads 34 CC Case and it origionally came with a 3 14 Case plow. It was used up between Atchison Kans and St Joe Mo. on the Mo River bluffs and hills. I brought it down here to Okieland where the ground is flat as a rock, and sandy, and the narrow wheeled Case dropped like a rock. Had to take off one bottom, then I was fine. It had the power, it just woould drop down in tough places, and it sets low to begin with. It pulls my 18ft IHC single disc ok pretty much if I let the drawbar swing on the turns. If noty, (and I do), it turns hard, The front wheels just cant get a bite in that sandy land.

 

[RandyB(MI)]

Do you actually have 10" of topsoil in Nebraska??? If not then a mouldboard plow makes a terrible subsoiler. I don't see any other reason to mouldboard plow at 10"? 3/14,s or 3/16,s it should handle easily , unless you are trying to rotate the earth.

 

[fixerupper]

Don't know why but it doesn't seem like a tractor with twice the horses can pull twice the implement. We always pulled a 14' disk with a 48 horse tractor and it was quite a load sometimes. Can a 96 horse tractor, like 4020 or 806 or 1850 size pull a 28 foot disk? Not in ANY kind of soil. Our 48 horse tractor struggled with 4-14's. A 96 horse tractor with 8-14's? Jim

 

[Leroy]

Between a 14' disk and the 28' one the larger is designed to work at twice the depth of the smaller one and therefore take twice the power. The plows if the operator of the larger tractor would be satified with the size of bottom and speed of the 14" bottom then they could pull them but they want larger bottoms so that means more power per bottom and they are not satified with the speed and want more so more power. I figure a correctly operating plow with 12" bottoms needs about 13 horse to pull, a 14" needs 15 horse and a 16" needs 20 horse, a new style 18" bottom probably needs 35 horse to pull and is twice what 2 of the 12" bottoms take and you are only cutting 3/4 of the 2-12" plow but instead of cutting 6" deep they are running 10" deep and turning up 3-4" of yellow clay into the top soil with every pass so eventually they will be having nothing but subsoil and that subsoil pulls harder than the top soil.

 

[Anonymous-0]

from the pics I have seen he's trying to get rid of his topsoil, never saw any good heavy soil in Ne yet, I suppose there's some somewhere, I always plowed atleast as deep as my 8" Redwing boots, we pulled a 3-14 in 3rd with a 77 Oliver yrs ago but 100hp was nice to have on a 4-16, I pull a 5-20 with my 1570 case @200hp

 

[Fordfarmer]

The width of a disk or a plow bottom has -nothing- to do with how deep they work. That is an adjustment made by the operator, up to the maximum depth for the machine. On a disk, maximum depth is determined by blade diameter... if a 14' and a 28' disk both have 18" blades, they can both work to the same depth.

 

[Shetland Sheepdog]

Okay, I bit my tongue when Fordfarmer said 4000 SU's have 28" wheels, but when you said the same thing, I couldn't resist replying! Ford 4000 SU's may have been offered with 28"wheels, but many of them had 24" wheels as well! Typically, the 28" were 14.9's and the 24" were 16.9's. Also, a lot of them came with 7.5L x 15 fronts instead of the typical 7.50 x 16 fronts. The farm that I worked on had/has 5-4000 SU's, 4-4600 SU's & 1-4610 SU! There was about an even split on the front tire equipment amoung those 10 tractors, but the 4610 SU was the only one with the 14.9 x 28's, the other 9 all had 16.9 x 24's!
Dave

 

[Leroy]

Odds are that that 28' disk will have 22" or 24" blades and a 16" bottom will not work right trying to plow 6" deep.

 

[Leroy]

Are you in row crop country, those 16.9 were too wide a tire for row crop use so most here had the 28"

 

[Shetland Sheepdog]

Fruit and vegetable farm.
Dave
http://www.brookdalefarms.com/Farmpics2011/

 

[Leroy]

Nice site. Now a question, on your produce what width rows do you use to cultivate? Look like more like 40" than 30" and a 16.9 tire would on 30" have only 6" of row clearance on each side. With that would not take much to be running over the plants.

 

[Shetland Sheepdog]

Hi Leroy,
On the regular row crops they have used 36" row spacing ever since before I started there in 1955! Back then, they had 4 tractors! An AC - WD narrow front, an AC - CA wide front, a Ford 8N & a Fordson New Major! The 2 AC's did most of the row crop work & the 8N & Fordson did orchard duty!
Dave

 

[Fordfarmer]

Should have said 28" standard.